11 ms·

U.S. workers are among the most stressed in the world, new Gallup report finds

183 points by sharkweek 5y ago

foolinaround 5y ago
I guess it has a lot to do with worker's expectations. in the 3rd world, for example, for the same job categories, the working conditions etc are much worse...
- 1-6 5y ago
  This is a guess but most people around the world probably aren't polled about their working conditions...
- pault 5y ago
  There are more options than American late stage capitalism and developing world unskilled labor.
SmellTheGlove 5y ago
I wonder if the root causes here are closer to skyrocketing housing costs, healthcare risks, and relatively stagnant wages making it hard to de-risk the first two. The article mentions - By contrast, the daily stress levels for women in Western Europe went down in the last year, which researchers attribute to social safety nets for parents and workers to prevent unemployment. But then goes on to talk about the workplace. I don't think it's the workplace. I think it's the lack of psychological security as the middle class ceases to exist.
- guerrilla 5y ago
  I'd add the general lack of a social safety net, at least compared to Europe. All those people can actually become homeless.
  - SmellTheGlove 5y ago
    Sorry, I edited in that bit just now. But yeah, I agree with you. Hell, I work in tech and do okay, and yet the thought crosses my mind that things could go off the rails quickly. If I get sick, even my relatively good insurance means lots of out of pocket costs. Plus I can't work then, so I'll live on a fraction of my income since I have decent disability coverage. I'll be able to keep a roof over my head, but probably not a lot beyond that, which negatively affects my family - particularly my child, given skyrocketing education costs. It's a weird place when you think about it. And yet most days I accept this as normal.
    - necrotic_comp 5y ago
      yep - I second this. There's definitely a lurking thought about what'd happen if you're sick they find something or what happens if your landlord decides he doesn't want to rent your apartment any more, and now you have to move to a new neighborhood that's 30 minutes further away from work and less safe, or, god forbid if I had kids, in a worse district, etc. etc. I've been working at a high level for 15 years now and I feel like I'm just barely making it out of the swamp. I have no psychological safety because a single bad decision or an incident of bad luck could completely derail my life.
    - wolverine876 5y ago
      > And yet most days I accept this as normal. That is not a symptom, but the problem. People can normalize anything. You could normalize living like a medieval peasant - many people did. Smart people know they can just keep doing something and eventually others will accept it to a degree. You deserve better.
  - throwkeep 5y ago
    Don't most US cities have social services that provide shelter, food and other assistance? [How nice that this is getting downvoted. It's a legit question. I have family members who are social workers and know these services exist, and it seems like it's most cities, but don't know for sure, hence the question mark.]
- kilroy123 5y ago
  Oh course it is. It's fight like hell not to drown.
  - encoderer 5y ago
    I come from a lower-middle-class family in a decayed rustbelt city and this was never my experience. It's a big country and some places have it harder than others but I thought I'd add a counterpoint to what I honestly read as a pretty pessimistic take.
    - kilroy123 5y ago
      Then I would say you're very lucky. My entire family in California absolutely feels this way. Not everyone can be in tech.
- dilyevsky 5y ago
  If you think us housing is skyrocketing wait until you see european prices
  - CobrastanJorji 5y ago
    If I lose my job in Europe, I have trouble paying for my home. If I lose my job in America, I can no longer get prescription medicine to keep myself alive.
- sneak 5y ago
  Wages are no longer stagnant, though they were until about a year ago. Presently we have seen 4 consecutive quarters of substantial y/y wage growth in the US.
  - rch 5y ago
    I was curious about median wage growth and found graph of the ratio of median to average: https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html
  - ajmadesc 5y ago
    Is that adjusted for rise in costs? What counts as substantial?
    - sneak 5y ago
      It's not adjusted for anything, just in actual figures. Per a blog I read: Q1 2021 wages were 7.7% higher than Q1 2020 wages. Q4 2020 wages were 7.7% higher than Q4 2019 wages. Q3 2020 wages were 6.2% higher than Q3 2019 wages. Q2 2020 wages were 6.5% higher than Q2 2019 wages. It remains to be seen how bad the general consumer goods price increases will end up being.
      - ajmadesc 5y ago
        Oh cool! Much more than I would've suspected. Thanks for sharing
- dcolkitt 5y ago
  The study found that the US and Canada had virtually identical stress levels. Therefore I doubt the healthcare system is the driving factor. Also considering that the least stressed country was Russia, I don’t think that wealth inequality or the lack of a middle class is a major driver either.
  - r_u_erect2 5y ago
    No, the study did not find that. The study for some reason decided to combine the us and Canadian answers. > U.S. and Canadian workers, whose survey data are combined in Gallup’s research, ranked highest for daily stress levels of all groups surveyed. There is simply no way that Canadian workers are as highly stressed as those in the us. EDIT: Lol why is this flagged?
MisterBastahrd 5y ago
That's because America is the land where misery is virtue. We could have all trappings of a true first-world country with ease if we wanted to. But where's the fun in that? Much better to pretend that everyone else is a leech or a slob and decide that the only way to get quality work out of them is to make them as miserable as possible. Do honest manual labor because book learning isn't your thing? Better have 3 jobs to be as virtuous as the guy who drank through 4 years of college.
TheAdamAndChe 5y ago
I have a Bachelor's degree in IT, hold a whole alphabet of certifications, and am happy to work part time at the company I work at making $20/hr. Why? Because I'm actually treated like a human being with tons of autonomy. I can crack jokes, control my own schedule, take breaks if I get frustrated, and do basically whatever I want as long as I'm honest with my work logs. So many jobs here are dehumanizing. We are treated like cogs by a highly stressed management, and if you don't "pull your weight" and overwork yourself then you are cast from the group. Try to push back, and you get a talking to by silver-tongued executives who just don't understand why we don't Work Harder. In a previous job, I was scheduled shifts from 7am-9pm just a week after being in the hospital.
- shadowmore 5y ago
  I find this individualistic view of the problem fascinating. It treats companies as individuals and thinks they're all different, which is bolstered by the BS terminology about "corporate culture" that the companies themselves push. But to anyone who sees the big picture, it's obvious that this is capitalism. Under capitalism, you are a cog in a machine. Always have been, always will be. This isn't some particular company treating its employees like trash. It's the entire system of commodifying all aspects of life in order for the line in the chart to keep going up indefinitely. But individualism has people so utterly blind to this that they treat companies as people, which is dystopian to the max.
  - pault 5y ago
    I don't think capitalism has a monopoly on this. It's an intrinsic property of any hierarchical organization.
    - shadowmore 5y ago
      I could see someone argue that, but would a monarch, for example, really hyperfocus nearly as much on optimizing crops to the point of driving the farmers to suicide, just so he could point to a line going up on a chart in a meeting with investors? No, it's more likely to be a vague, emotional impulse for "more", without the bureaucratic apparatus to enforce it in a way that is fundamentally incompatible with human life. Capitalism demands constant growth in ways and for reasons that are different from any other hierarchy.
aphextron 5y ago
I make low six figures as a single, childless person, and am just barely doing ok. I rent a cheap 1 bedroom apartment, drive a 20 year old Toyota, and end up with just enough for a small amount of savings each month with very little discretionary spending. Buying a home is an impossible fantasy. Being out of work for a couple months would leave me homeless. I literally cannot imagine what it's like trying to support a family on the average salary in this country.
- andrewnicolalde 5y ago
  What do you think the main reasons for this are? Are you in a super high cost of living area?
- nafix 5y ago
  How is this possible? Are you living in LA or San Francisco? Where is all of your money going?
  - jurassic 5y ago
    By my calculation, if this person made ~$120k year and lived in a typical $3000/month 1-bed apartment in San Francisco, they should have about $40k/yr left after taxes and housing costs are paid. Out of this $40k they'd need to pay food, transportation, discretionary, and savings. Definitely puts efficiently saving a large downpayment on a home in California out of reach, but I'm surprised OP feels at risk of becoming homeless with that much budget slack. A generous $2000/month budget for non-housing spending (food, transportation, discretionary) would still leave $16k/yr they could save. Not a lot, but a lot better than many. Large debt payments or lifestyle inflation could pretty easily skew this person more toward an experience of paycheck-to-paycheck living. When I lived in San Francisco, it seemed like the hedonic treadmill was in full force. People came to the Bay Area stunned that they could start out making more money than their parents ever dreamed of, then a few years later they feel grumpy because they're ONLY making $300k/yr when their buddy is making $450k/yr at FAANG and driving a new Tesla. It's easy for lifestyle inflation to happen in an environment where people all around you seem to have Scrooge McDuck levels of money and all the lifestyle bloat to go along with it. My advice is to take your tech skills and leave for greener pastures. I see absolutely no reason to pay all those extra California taxes and housing costs.
hvocode 5y ago
It seems like broadly speaking everyone has just been stressed here for a few years. Not stressed about work? How about healthcare? Or the economy? Or one of many social topics? Maybe political disagreements with your family members? How about some looming climate related topic? The whole country feels stressed out for one reason or another and it’s gotten noticeably worse over the last decade. The title could very well replace “US Workers” with “Americans” and probably be just as accurate.
SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
I know people are going to draw conclusions about safety nets and such, but they grouped in American AND Canada, though honestly who can know what that means in terms of grouping those two together (I have no idea how about Gallup's weightings between the two countries). But they did include Canadians as well in their misery index.
- SmellTheGlove 5y ago
  Canada has the same housing cost issues that we have in the US, with arguably worse wages. Healthcare is provided, but all I'm taking from that is that it isn't a silver bullet.
  - SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
    True there's certainly commonalities, but I see a lot of people taking on specifically American ideas, and I wanted to point out that it's probably more than that.
pault 5y ago
I was born in the US and lived abroad for 10 years before returning recently. It was a big and very demoralizing culture shock when I returned and, being in the habit of being friendly to strangers, saw how withdrawn and mistrusting people here have become. More so because I'm in Austin, TX, which is widely reported to be a friendly city. Everyone is so obsessed with work and virtue signalling. I didn't notice how competitive Americans are until I had a frame of reference to make the comparison. Living in South and Central America, my impression was that people are far more accepting regardless of whether you are a career professional or a not, or your hobbies or political alignment. In Belize I made a dozen good friends within six months of arriving, and I haven't made a single friend in three years here. I've been extremely depressed since I returned. I'm considering leaving again now that the lockdown has made remote work easier to come by (which was the primary reason I returned to the US in the first place). I'm not trying to slander Americans, and I understand that you can't make sweeping generalizations about any group of people, but the pressure and stress of our society is overwhelming.
- anm89 5y ago
  That's one of the weirdest things you figure out traveling. There are really no rules to what life is. It can have a drastically different texture based on things about your environment that don't feel that meaningful when you just think "that's the way things always are" with no alternative to compare it to.
  - pault 5y ago
    I encourage everyone to take an extended trip to a country with a different culture if they can afford it by any means. The greatest effect it has on you is making it obvious which aspects of your personality and values are just picked up from your surroundings. Every time I moved to a different region it stripped away a little bit of the parts of me that weren't really me, and left me feeling much more confident in my goals and desires, and generally more comfortable with who I am. You really can't put a price on this.
    - kzrdude 5y ago
Tangokat 5y ago
In Denmark we have minimum 5 weeks paid vacation every year for full-time jobs. Many have 6 weeks, some have 7 weeks. It's a luxury but one that Americans should be able to afford for all.
- Tarsul 5y ago
  I think this is one of the most important points. Resting = less stress. Additionally, in Europe when you're ill it doesn't count against your holidays.
  - Hamuko 5y ago
    >Additionally, in Europe when you're ill it doesn't count against your holidays. The first sick day might be unpaid though. Here it depends on the occupation, as in, which collective agreement your industry uses. I think the idea is that it reduces "unnecessary" sick days, but I think I have my first sick day as paid and I think the last time I had a sick day was around when World of Warcraft: Battle for Azeroth came out in 2018 (I swear it was a coincidence).
- acuozzo 5y ago
  > It's a luxury but one that Americans should be able to afford for all. Agreed, but health care first, no?
- UnpossibleJim 5y ago
  Unless I'm mistaken, Denmark also has socialized healthcare, does it not? I know this drum gets beaten to death on forums of all kinds, including this one, so pardon me for banging it once again. Tying one's health coverage (in a meaningful way) to one's job is just shameful for any type of developed nation, and to do so during a pandemic with lock down rules, doubly so. I know people who had trouble getting certain diabetic supplies covered on their state insurance when they were laid off during the lock down, in one of the richest nations of the world. I'm not sure people are even stressed about vacations. I think people are so stressed that if they lose their jobs, they lose their healthcare and since so many people have so little savings they face homelessness (our school system doesn't do a very good job of teaching economics for the individual - my parents taught me), They're stressed because their hormones are out of whack because for so many our diet and exercise routines are horrible (though, some of that could be blamed on long commutes). It's a symphony of issues that's causing stress derived from work that isn't the work itself, or time away from it =(
zwieback 5y ago
Not me, I find my engineering job in a large US corporation fun and rewarding and pretty well paid. I was more stressed out early in my career, though, when I worked at smaller startups.
- ggggtez 5y ago
  You aren't comparing your experience to the average American, let alone the average person in the world. You are comparing a rich tech job to a different rich tech job.
  - zests 5y ago
    Rich tech jobs can be very stressful. It was hard for me to realized that I should not be stressed at my job.
  - zwieback 5y ago
    Very true, but I wasn't actually comparing myself to anyone, just offering an additional data point.
underseacables 5y ago
Because for most employees you can be fired on the spot for something you did ten years ago, or just because you’re the least percentile ranked member of a team, so you have to go. US workers are the most stressed because, with few exceptions, an employer can pull the rug out from under them, while awarding themselves massive bonuses. That’s why. Edited for spelling and grammar.
- tayo42 5y ago
  Being fired at anytime definitely adds some just general existing anxiety, or laid off. What's worse, in tech at least, is how hard it is to get a new job. Not trying to beat a dead horse, but just losing your job and being forced to go through interviewing again. I think i have some slight ptsd from the last job search, what a horrible experience in every way.
joelbluminator 5y ago
The American dream...
- itake 5y ago
  The American dream has never been to live a low stress life. The American dream implies stress. If you work hard, you will be successful.
  - joelbluminator 5y ago
    > If you work hard, you will be successful Unless you were born to neglecting parents or went to a shitty school or learned the wrong major (arts major anyone?) or chose a low paying job (schoolteachers in the house?) or had something bad happen to your health or a million other possibilities. Or maybe your parents are super cool, the school was nice but your cognitive abilities are just not right for the high paying jobs (most high paying jobs require high cognitive abilities like finance, software, medicine) and you are working as a car mechanic (don't get me wrong, it's an awesome career but not likely to be viewed as "successful" the same way you mean it). Actually the equation "work hard = success" is quite ridiculous. Do you think Uber drivers don't work hard? Shop clerks? Construction workers? Nurses ? Teachers ? Where is this idea even coming from?
    - JohnWhigham 5y ago
      Where is this idea even coming from? Boomers wrought this cancerous thinking onto us. Can't wait for them to all be dead.
- avgDev 5y ago
  “That's why they call it the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.” - Carlin
  - Woodi 5y ago
    Or "Sleep, sleep dear America...". Also reading all this thread make me thinking: this is rich country problem. I could put here examples from eg. Africa where kids do not go to school becouse no cents for bus or they need to take care for younger siblings. Or no sweater. But this will not really help. Looks like it's advanced civilisation problem. Pretty much like in sci-fi movies: overcrowd, no money, health problems... But no worry, just like in 60's abundance of drugs will help ! \s Would be nice to have something to help USAmerica (and others, becouse same problems are in other places too) but most likely any real help needs time and good society consciousnes. One thing, I belive, could immediately help is peace in heart and mind which cames from God.
howmayiannoyyou 5y ago
If US workers feel stressed now, just wait. Your knowledge and service jobs are next on the chopping block as foreign competition from Rwanda to Rangoon moves up the value ladder; and as automation continues encroaching. We wanted cheap products from overseas, cheap debt, big state/federal spending & billions spent on sustainability boondoggles, D&I initiatives & regulation. Congrats! Mission accomplished and the bill is coming due. Grievance culture is costly as hell for society.
- onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
  If you think FAANG is going to outsource jobs to Rwanda and Rangoon any time soon - you're wildly out of touch. Education - especially science - is pretty lackluster almost everywhere in the world. If you really think the average person in Rangoon has as comfortable of a life to spend time educating themselves as Americans or Europeans or people from any other advanced economy - you're kidding yourself. Sure - they might have more desire on average, since they have a lot more to gain. But that's only going to get you so far. Also - you have to think that China and India are already almost half of the world's population. The developed world is another ~18%. Most of the effects of globalization have already been felt - especially for knowledge workers.
  - alienthrowaway 5y ago
    > Education - especially science - is pretty lackluster almost everywhere in the world. You're wrong, just because it is not visible to you doesn't mean it doesn't exist.You only have to visit a random science postgrad program and see students from all over the world represented - even at prestigious US universities, having immigrated after doing their undergraduate studies elsewhere. Their science education is good enough for Ivy league admissions departments, and those who get admitted are the very tip of a large iceberg. > Most of the effects of globalization have already been felt - especially for knowledge workers. This is a bold claim, which I think is wrong: a lot of developing countries don't have sufficient infrastructure (yet) to unlock their full potential. The talent is already present, but lacking connectivity and experience. The population share of the developing countries will balloon over the next few decades as developed world population flattens or shrinks.
nemo44x 5y ago
IT's funny the title only mention the USA but the article mentions USA and Canadian workers, both having the same percentage of stress. But Canada isn't mentioned in the headline.
- r_u_erect2 5y ago
  Why is it funny? They combined us and Canadian answers, and the us population represents 90%. With this questionable methodology the Canadian answers aren’t relevant.
belatw 5y ago
Just the mere idea of visiting the USA gives me more stress than I care to experience. After 7 years away I don’t even have a desire to visit. It takes a solid 5 years to get over what my friends call “that American Fight or Fight instinct”, and I don’t miss the amount of fear,distrust and readiness to fight that is always in the back of your mind being from the USA. Also, remotely siphoning $$$ off of bay area tech companies while living in the third world helps with stress a lot.
dcolkitt 5y ago
Be very careful, before drawing any conclusions, to note that the study is only counting workers. This is particularly relevant because European economies have significantly higher unemployment rates. Especially long-term youth unemployment. This makes any difference of European and American workers an apples to orange comparison. You could have a low-skilled 23 year old American working a dead-end McJob. His counterpart in Italy is unable to get any work, has a pittance of disposable income and is stuck living with his parents. Only one is being counted. We don’t really know who’s more miserable. It’s quite possible the unemployed European still has it better than the Wal-Mary greeter. But the point is this survey doesn’t tell us, because it’s excluding the unemployed from the respondent pool.
- standardUser 5y ago
  People like to make a big deal of out the "higher" rate of unemployment in Europe, but for the most part we're talking about a difference of 1-4 percent.
  - theptip 5y ago
    Random Google-searched data source pulling from World Bank data says 8% in USA, 18% in EU in 2019: https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/youth_unemployment/#USA https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/youth_unemployment... https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/youth_unemployment/#Euro_area https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/youth_unemployment... Double-clicking in, looking at France, Germany, Italy, Spain: only Germany has sub-20% unemployment (better than the USA actually). This seems to contradict your point. Where are you getting 1-4% from? I'm not sure if there's a "definition of unemployment" difference going on here?
    - standardUser 5y ago
      Those links are for youth unemployment rate. I don't know how those are calculated across different countries. The "regular" unemployment rate is supposed to have some level of reliability for cross-national comparisons, and I don't know if that holds true for other metrics. Looking at the overall unemployment rates, you'll see the variation is mostly in the 1-4% range.
kache_ 5y ago
And richest
glitchc 5y ago
Hardship leads to innovation and America is built on innovation. Once folks become too comfortable, the desire to do something new or unique diminishes dramatically. The Calvinist ethos is a foundational driver of American culture and thought process.
- mbrodersen 5y ago
  Right. So being in a civil war (for example) would be good because “hardship leads to innovation”?
  - glitchc 5y ago
    Wars are great sources of innovation. Here are all the innovations stemming from the American Civil War: https://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/feature/civil-war-innovations/ https://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/feature/civil-war-...
danielovichdk 5y ago
Isn't it because north america still has this long hour work culture, where you are expected to be around but not necessarily do anything. Work identity is also a thing. Where you kinda become what you do for a living. Which is bad. Money is bad for your mental health unless you know when to pull the plug and don't have bills to pay but no income. The balance is not hard. Which leads me back to identity. Why the fuck would want to get something you cannot pay for?
- Hamuko 5y ago
  I was pretty amazed when someone on HN told me that American salaried jobs don't usually have a concept of overtime. I didn't even know that it was a thing.
- tester756 5y ago
  >Work identity is also a thing. Where you kinda become what you do for a living. Which is bad. lol I've seen once a video called something like "a day of googler" and I was shocked that "average day" was hanging out with your coworkers after the work don't get me wrong, it's not like we dont do it here (poland), but it's from time to time, even when we have insanely good relations with eachother it's 16:00 on the clock and that's it - cya people tomorrow. I hope the video was not reflecting reality well?
  - alert0 5y ago
    It wasn't like that at all when I worked there. Quite the opposite, people were very quiet so we could do focused work, we did our work, then went home. We usually ate lunch together. Many of my coworkers had kids to go home and take care of. No one was looking to hang around. I'm sure it varies throughout the company though.
sound1 5y ago
The only country I heard of people working multiple jobs to make ends meet is USA. Definitely not a compliment to the most powerful and influential country in the world.
tayo42 5y ago
> “The most important thing employers can do is to equip managers to have the right kinds of conversations with people,” and the rest, This puts a lot on managers. I don't think leaders in organization are incentivized to make their reports happy. Managers don't get promotions because their team is happy. They get promotions doing things that make quality of life worse, empire building, adding responsibilities, team closing tickets, disruptive changes that only sound good. I don't think managers see happiness as part of their job. I think its a lot to ask people and companies to do this out of the goodness of their heart or expect them to be forward thinking enough to see that happier employees mean better performance. And that second might not even be true, we could be stressed because were trying to be most efficient possible at all times.
jefurii 5y ago
Many countries around the world have an "untouchable" class. I'm most familiar with the burakumin in Japan (disclosure: lived next to a burakumin community while teaching there). These untouchable classes function in society as a way to keep the lowest rungs of the "official" social classes in line. If you don't do your terrible job we can always cast you down there. The United States has untouchable classes as well, they're just called "homeless" or "undocumented" and we are taught to believe that "it's their own fault" rather than the result of a shitty traditional caste system. The last couple decades have expanded this class and made it more visible. I don't think this was a conspiracy, but the existence of this class is certainly advantageous to corporations that want to keep people down.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
tempfs 5y ago
Americans are in constant competition with each other for everything.(jobs,houses(and with foreign investors too),social media points) Fighting, fucking, sleeping... it's all we know how to do anymore. We used to make things, build things, share accomplishments as a society and a nation with each other. Now everything is about the personal accumulation of power/money. Not sure how a society like this is meant to last. Given the events of the last few years and the fact that a cretin like Trump was ever elected President, I'm pretty sure we are 100% fucked.
cafard 5y ago
About forty years ago, a housemate lost his job, he said because Reagan put a hiring freeze on at EPA. He told me that it made people deeply uncomfortable at parties when they asked him what he did and he said, Nothing. This was in Washington, where I still live.

183 points by sharkweek 5y ago

I guess it has a lot to do with worker's expectations. in the 3rd world, for example, for the same job categories, the working conditions etc are much worse...

1-6 5y ago
This is a guess but most people around the world probably aren't polled about their working conditions...
pault 5y ago
There are more options than American late stage capitalism and developing world unskilled labor.

SmellTheGlove 5y ago

I wonder if the root causes here are closer to skyrocketing housing costs, healthcare risks, and relatively stagnant wages making it hard to de-risk the first two. The article mentions - By contrast, the daily stress levels for women in Western Europe went down in the last year, which researchers attribute to social safety nets for parents and workers to prevent unemployment. But then goes on to talk about the workplace. I don't think it's the workplace. I think it's the lack of psychological security as the middle class ceases to exist.

guerrilla 5y ago
I'd add the general lack of a social safety net, at least compared to Europe. All those people can actually become homeless.
- SmellTheGlove 5y ago
  Sorry, I edited in that bit just now. But yeah, I agree with you. Hell, I work in tech and do okay, and yet the thought crosses my mind that things could go off the rails quickly. If I get sick, even my relatively good insurance means lots of out of pocket costs. Plus I can't work then, so I'll live on a fraction of my income since I have decent disability coverage. I'll be able to keep a roof over my head, but probably not a lot beyond that, which negatively affects my family - particularly my child, given skyrocketing education costs. It's a weird place when you think about it. And yet most days I accept this as normal.
  - necrotic_comp 5y ago
    yep - I second this. There's definitely a lurking thought about what'd happen if you're sick they find something or what happens if your landlord decides he doesn't want to rent your apartment any more, and now you have to move to a new neighborhood that's 30 minutes further away from work and less safe, or, god forbid if I had kids, in a worse district, etc. etc. I've been working at a high level for 15 years now and I feel like I'm just barely making it out of the swamp. I have no psychological safety because a single bad decision or an incident of bad luck could completely derail my life.
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    > And yet most days I accept this as normal. That is not a symptom, but the problem. People can normalize anything. You could normalize living like a medieval peasant - many people did. Smart people know they can just keep doing something and eventually others will accept it to a degree. You deserve better.
- throwkeep 5y ago
  Don't most US cities have social services that provide shelter, food and other assistance? [How nice that this is getting downvoted. It's a legit question. I have family members who are social workers and know these services exist, and it seems like it's most cities, but don't know for sure, hence the question mark.]
kilroy123 5y ago
Oh course it is. It's fight like hell not to drown.
- encoderer 5y ago
  I come from a lower-middle-class family in a decayed rustbelt city and this was never my experience. It's a big country and some places have it harder than others but I thought I'd add a counterpoint to what I honestly read as a pretty pessimistic take.
  - kilroy123 5y ago
    Then I would say you're very lucky. My entire family in California absolutely feels this way. Not everyone can be in tech.
dilyevsky 5y ago
If you think us housing is skyrocketing wait until you see european prices
- CobrastanJorji 5y ago
  If I lose my job in Europe, I have trouble paying for my home. If I lose my job in America, I can no longer get prescription medicine to keep myself alive.
sneak 5y ago
Wages are no longer stagnant, though they were until about a year ago. Presently we have seen 4 consecutive quarters of substantial y/y wage growth in the US.
- rch 5y ago
  I was curious about median wage growth and found graph of the ratio of median to average: https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html
- ajmadesc 5y ago
  Is that adjusted for rise in costs? What counts as substantial?
  - sneak 5y ago
    It's not adjusted for anything, just in actual figures. Per a blog I read: Q1 2021 wages were 7.7% higher than Q1 2020 wages. Q4 2020 wages were 7.7% higher than Q4 2019 wages. Q3 2020 wages were 6.2% higher than Q3 2019 wages. Q2 2020 wages were 6.5% higher than Q2 2019 wages. It remains to be seen how bad the general consumer goods price increases will end up being.
    - ajmadesc 5y ago
      Oh cool! Much more than I would've suspected. Thanks for sharing
dcolkitt 5y ago
The study found that the US and Canada had virtually identical stress levels. Therefore I doubt the healthcare system is the driving factor. Also considering that the least stressed country was Russia, I don’t think that wealth inequality or the lack of a middle class is a major driver either.
- r_u_erect2 5y ago
  No, the study did not find that. The study for some reason decided to combine the us and Canadian answers. > U.S. and Canadian workers, whose survey data are combined in Gallup’s research, ranked highest for daily stress levels of all groups surveyed. There is simply no way that Canadian workers are as highly stressed as those in the us. EDIT: Lol why is this flagged?

MisterBastahrd 5y ago

That's because America is the land where misery is virtue. We could have all trappings of a true first-world country with ease if we wanted to. But where's the fun in that? Much better to pretend that everyone else is a leech or a slob and decide that the only way to get quality work out of them is to make them as miserable as possible. Do honest manual labor because book learning isn't your thing? Better have 3 jobs to be as virtuous as the guy who drank through 4 years of college.

TheAdamAndChe 5y ago

I have a Bachelor's degree in IT, hold a whole alphabet of certifications, and am happy to work part time at the company I work at making $20/hr. Why? Because I'm actually treated like a human being with tons of autonomy. I can crack jokes, control my own schedule, take breaks if I get frustrated, and do basically whatever I want as long as I'm honest with my work logs. So many jobs here are dehumanizing. We are treated like cogs by a highly stressed management, and if you don't "pull your weight" and overwork yourself then you are cast from the group. Try to push back, and you get a talking to by silver-tongued executives who just don't understand why we don't Work Harder. In a previous job, I was scheduled shifts from 7am-9pm just a week after being in the hospital.

shadowmore 5y ago
I find this individualistic view of the problem fascinating. It treats companies as individuals and thinks they're all different, which is bolstered by the BS terminology about "corporate culture" that the companies themselves push. But to anyone who sees the big picture, it's obvious that this is capitalism. Under capitalism, you are a cog in a machine. Always have been, always will be. This isn't some particular company treating its employees like trash. It's the entire system of commodifying all aspects of life in order for the line in the chart to keep going up indefinitely. But individualism has people so utterly blind to this that they treat companies as people, which is dystopian to the max.
- pault 5y ago
  I don't think capitalism has a monopoly on this. It's an intrinsic property of any hierarchical organization.
  - shadowmore 5y ago
    I could see someone argue that, but would a monarch, for example, really hyperfocus nearly as much on optimizing crops to the point of driving the farmers to suicide, just so he could point to a line going up on a chart in a meeting with investors? No, it's more likely to be a vague, emotional impulse for "more", without the bureaucratic apparatus to enforce it in a way that is fundamentally incompatible with human life. Capitalism demands constant growth in ways and for reasons that are different from any other hierarchy.

aphextron 5y ago

I make low six figures as a single, childless person, and am just barely doing ok. I rent a cheap 1 bedroom apartment, drive a 20 year old Toyota, and end up with just enough for a small amount of savings each month with very little discretionary spending. Buying a home is an impossible fantasy. Being out of work for a couple months would leave me homeless. I literally cannot imagine what it's like trying to support a family on the average salary in this country.

andrewnicolalde 5y ago
What do you think the main reasons for this are? Are you in a super high cost of living area?
nafix 5y ago
How is this possible? Are you living in LA or San Francisco? Where is all of your money going?
- jurassic 5y ago
  By my calculation, if this person made ~$120k year and lived in a typical $3000/month 1-bed apartment in San Francisco, they should have about $40k/yr left after taxes and housing costs are paid. Out of this $40k they'd need to pay food, transportation, discretionary, and savings. Definitely puts efficiently saving a large downpayment on a home in California out of reach, but I'm surprised OP feels at risk of becoming homeless with that much budget slack. A generous $2000/month budget for non-housing spending (food, transportation, discretionary) would still leave $16k/yr they could save. Not a lot, but a lot better than many. Large debt payments or lifestyle inflation could pretty easily skew this person more toward an experience of paycheck-to-paycheck living. When I lived in San Francisco, it seemed like the hedonic treadmill was in full force. People came to the Bay Area stunned that they could start out making more money than their parents ever dreamed of, then a few years later they feel grumpy because they're ONLY making $300k/yr when their buddy is making $450k/yr at FAANG and driving a new Tesla. It's easy for lifestyle inflation to happen in an environment where people all around you seem to have Scrooge McDuck levels of money and all the lifestyle bloat to go along with it. My advice is to take your tech skills and leave for greener pastures. I see absolutely no reason to pay all those extra California taxes and housing costs.

hvocode 5y ago

It seems like broadly speaking everyone has just been stressed here for a few years. Not stressed about work? How about healthcare? Or the economy? Or one of many social topics? Maybe political disagreements with your family members? How about some looming climate related topic? The whole country feels stressed out for one reason or another and it’s gotten noticeably worse over the last decade. The title could very well replace “US Workers” with “Americans” and probably be just as accurate.

SketchySeaBeast 5y ago

I know people are going to draw conclusions about safety nets and such, but they grouped in American AND Canada, though honestly who can know what that means in terms of grouping those two together (I have no idea how about Gallup's weightings between the two countries). But they did include Canadians as well in their misery index.

SmellTheGlove 5y ago
Canada has the same housing cost issues that we have in the US, with arguably worse wages. Healthcare is provided, but all I'm taking from that is that it isn't a silver bullet.
- SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
  True there's certainly commonalities, but I see a lot of people taking on specifically American ideas, and I wanted to point out that it's probably more than that.

pault 5y ago

I was born in the US and lived abroad for 10 years before returning recently. It was a big and very demoralizing culture shock when I returned and, being in the habit of being friendly to strangers, saw how withdrawn and mistrusting people here have become. More so because I'm in Austin, TX, which is widely reported to be a friendly city. Everyone is so obsessed with work and virtue signalling. I didn't notice how competitive Americans are until I had a frame of reference to make the comparison. Living in South and Central America, my impression was that people are far more accepting regardless of whether you are a career professional or a not, or your hobbies or political alignment. In Belize I made a dozen good friends within six months of arriving, and I haven't made a single friend in three years here. I've been extremely depressed since I returned. I'm considering leaving again now that the lockdown has made remote work easier to come by (which was the primary reason I returned to the US in the first place). I'm not trying to slander Americans, and I understand that you can't make sweeping generalizations about any group of people, but the pressure and stress of our society is overwhelming.

anm89 5y ago
That's one of the weirdest things you figure out traveling. There are really no rules to what life is. It can have a drastically different texture based on things about your environment that don't feel that meaningful when you just think "that's the way things always are" with no alternative to compare it to.
- pault 5y ago
  I encourage everyone to take an extended trip to a country with a different culture if they can afford it by any means. The greatest effect it has on you is making it obvious which aspects of your personality and values are just picked up from your surroundings. Every time I moved to a different region it stripped away a little bit of the parts of me that weren't really me, and left me feeling much more confident in my goals and desires, and generally more comfortable with who I am. You really can't put a price on this.
  - kzrdude 5y ago

Tangokat 5y ago

In Denmark we have minimum 5 weeks paid vacation every year for full-time jobs. Many have 6 weeks, some have 7 weeks. It's a luxury but one that Americans should be able to afford for all.

Tarsul 5y ago
I think this is one of the most important points. Resting = less stress. Additionally, in Europe when you're ill it doesn't count against your holidays.
- Hamuko 5y ago
  >Additionally, in Europe when you're ill it doesn't count against your holidays. The first sick day might be unpaid though. Here it depends on the occupation, as in, which collective agreement your industry uses. I think the idea is that it reduces "unnecessary" sick days, but I think I have my first sick day as paid and I think the last time I had a sick day was around when World of Warcraft: Battle for Azeroth came out in 2018 (I swear it was a coincidence).
acuozzo 5y ago
> It's a luxury but one that Americans should be able to afford for all. Agreed, but health care first, no?
UnpossibleJim 5y ago
Unless I'm mistaken, Denmark also has socialized healthcare, does it not? I know this drum gets beaten to death on forums of all kinds, including this one, so pardon me for banging it once again. Tying one's health coverage (in a meaningful way) to one's job is just shameful for any type of developed nation, and to do so during a pandemic with lock down rules, doubly so. I know people who had trouble getting certain diabetic supplies covered on their state insurance when they were laid off during the lock down, in one of the richest nations of the world. I'm not sure people are even stressed about vacations. I think people are so stressed that if they lose their jobs, they lose their healthcare and since so many people have so little savings they face homelessness (our school system doesn't do a very good job of teaching economics for the individual - my parents taught me), They're stressed because their hormones are out of whack because for so many our diet and exercise routines are horrible (though, some of that could be blamed on long commutes). It's a symphony of issues that's causing stress derived from work that isn't the work itself, or time away from it =(

zwieback 5y ago

Not me, I find my engineering job in a large US corporation fun and rewarding and pretty well paid. I was more stressed out early in my career, though, when I worked at smaller startups.

ggggtez 5y ago
You aren't comparing your experience to the average American, let alone the average person in the world. You are comparing a rich tech job to a different rich tech job.
- zests 5y ago
  Rich tech jobs can be very stressful. It was hard for me to realized that I should not be stressed at my job.
- zwieback 5y ago
  Very true, but I wasn't actually comparing myself to anyone, just offering an additional data point.

underseacables 5y ago

Because for most employees you can be fired on the spot for something you did ten years ago, or just because you’re the least percentile ranked member of a team, so you have to go. US workers are the most stressed because, with few exceptions, an employer can pull the rug out from under them, while awarding themselves massive bonuses. That’s why. Edited for spelling and grammar.

tayo42 5y ago
Being fired at anytime definitely adds some just general existing anxiety, or laid off. What's worse, in tech at least, is how hard it is to get a new job. Not trying to beat a dead horse, but just losing your job and being forced to go through interviewing again. I think i have some slight ptsd from the last job search, what a horrible experience in every way.

joelbluminator 5y ago

The American dream...

itake 5y ago
The American dream has never been to live a low stress life. The American dream implies stress. If you work hard, you will be successful.
- joelbluminator 5y ago
  > If you work hard, you will be successful Unless you were born to neglecting parents or went to a shitty school or learned the wrong major (arts major anyone?) or chose a low paying job (schoolteachers in the house?) or had something bad happen to your health or a million other possibilities. Or maybe your parents are super cool, the school was nice but your cognitive abilities are just not right for the high paying jobs (most high paying jobs require high cognitive abilities like finance, software, medicine) and you are working as a car mechanic (don't get me wrong, it's an awesome career but not likely to be viewed as "successful" the same way you mean it). Actually the equation "work hard = success" is quite ridiculous. Do you think Uber drivers don't work hard? Shop clerks? Construction workers? Nurses ? Teachers ? Where is this idea even coming from?
  - JohnWhigham 5y ago
    Where is this idea even coming from? Boomers wrought this cancerous thinking onto us. Can't wait for them to all be dead.
avgDev 5y ago
“That's why they call it the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.” - Carlin
- Woodi 5y ago
  Or "Sleep, sleep dear America...". Also reading all this thread make me thinking: this is rich country problem. I could put here examples from eg. Africa where kids do not go to school becouse no cents for bus or they need to take care for younger siblings. Or no sweater. But this will not really help. Looks like it's advanced civilisation problem. Pretty much like in sci-fi movies: overcrowd, no money, health problems... But no worry, just like in 60's abundance of drugs will help ! \s Would be nice to have something to help USAmerica (and others, becouse same problems are in other places too) but most likely any real help needs time and good society consciousnes. One thing, I belive, could immediately help is peace in heart and mind which cames from God.

howmayiannoyyou 5y ago

If US workers feel stressed now, just wait. Your knowledge and service jobs are next on the chopping block as foreign competition from Rwanda to Rangoon moves up the value ladder; and as automation continues encroaching. We wanted cheap products from overseas, cheap debt, big state/federal spending & billions spent on sustainability boondoggles, D&I initiatives & regulation. Congrats! Mission accomplished and the bill is coming due. Grievance culture is costly as hell for society.

onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
If you think FAANG is going to outsource jobs to Rwanda and Rangoon any time soon - you're wildly out of touch. Education - especially science - is pretty lackluster almost everywhere in the world. If you really think the average person in Rangoon has as comfortable of a life to spend time educating themselves as Americans or Europeans or people from any other advanced economy - you're kidding yourself. Sure - they might have more desire on average, since they have a lot more to gain. But that's only going to get you so far. Also - you have to think that China and India are already almost half of the world's population. The developed world is another ~18%. Most of the effects of globalization have already been felt - especially for knowledge workers.
- alienthrowaway 5y ago
  > Education - especially science - is pretty lackluster almost everywhere in the world. You're wrong, just because it is not visible to you doesn't mean it doesn't exist.You only have to visit a random science postgrad program and see students from all over the world represented - even at prestigious US universities, having immigrated after doing their undergraduate studies elsewhere. Their science education is good enough for Ivy league admissions departments, and those who get admitted are the very tip of a large iceberg. > Most of the effects of globalization have already been felt - especially for knowledge workers. This is a bold claim, which I think is wrong: a lot of developing countries don't have sufficient infrastructure (yet) to unlock their full potential. The talent is already present, but lacking connectivity and experience. The population share of the developing countries will balloon over the next few decades as developed world population flattens or shrinks.

nemo44x 5y ago

IT's funny the title only mention the USA but the article mentions USA and Canadian workers, both having the same percentage of stress. But Canada isn't mentioned in the headline.

r_u_erect2 5y ago
Why is it funny? They combined us and Canadian answers, and the us population represents 90%. With this questionable methodology the Canadian answers aren’t relevant.

belatw 5y ago

Just the mere idea of visiting the USA gives me more stress than I care to experience. After 7 years away I don’t even have a desire to visit. It takes a solid 5 years to get over what my friends call “that American Fight or Fight instinct”, and I don’t miss the amount of fear,distrust and readiness to fight that is always in the back of your mind being from the USA. Also, remotely siphoning $$$ off of bay area tech companies while living in the third world helps with stress a lot.

dcolkitt 5y ago

Be very careful, before drawing any conclusions, to note that the study is only counting workers. This is particularly relevant because European economies have significantly higher unemployment rates. Especially long-term youth unemployment. This makes any difference of European and American workers an apples to orange comparison. You could have a low-skilled 23 year old American working a dead-end McJob. His counterpart in Italy is unable to get any work, has a pittance of disposable income and is stuck living with his parents. Only one is being counted. We don’t really know who’s more miserable. It’s quite possible the unemployed European still has it better than the Wal-Mary greeter. But the point is this survey doesn’t tell us, because it’s excluding the unemployed from the respondent pool.

standardUser 5y ago
People like to make a big deal of out the "higher" rate of unemployment in Europe, but for the most part we're talking about a difference of 1-4 percent.
- theptip 5y ago
  Random Google-searched data source pulling from World Bank data says 8% in USA, 18% in EU in 2019: https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/youth_unemployment/#USA https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/youth_unemployment... https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/youth_unemployment/#Euro_area https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/youth_unemployment... Double-clicking in, looking at France, Germany, Italy, Spain: only Germany has sub-20% unemployment (better than the USA actually). This seems to contradict your point. Where are you getting 1-4% from? I'm not sure if there's a "definition of unemployment" difference going on here?
  - standardUser 5y ago
    Those links are for youth unemployment rate. I don't know how those are calculated across different countries. The "regular" unemployment rate is supposed to have some level of reliability for cross-national comparisons, and I don't know if that holds true for other metrics. Looking at the overall unemployment rates, you'll see the variation is mostly in the 1-4% range.

kache_ 5y ago

And richest

glitchc 5y ago

Hardship leads to innovation and America is built on innovation. Once folks become too comfortable, the desire to do something new or unique diminishes dramatically. The Calvinist ethos is a foundational driver of American culture and thought process.

mbrodersen 5y ago
Right. So being in a civil war (for example) would be good because “hardship leads to innovation”?
- glitchc 5y ago
  Wars are great sources of innovation. Here are all the innovations stemming from the American Civil War: https://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/feature/civil-war-innovations/ https://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/feature/civil-war-...

danielovichdk 5y ago

Isn't it because north america still has this long hour work culture, where you are expected to be around but not necessarily do anything. Work identity is also a thing. Where you kinda become what you do for a living. Which is bad. Money is bad for your mental health unless you know when to pull the plug and don't have bills to pay but no income. The balance is not hard. Which leads me back to identity. Why the fuck would want to get something you cannot pay for?

Hamuko 5y ago
I was pretty amazed when someone on HN told me that American salaried jobs don't usually have a concept of overtime. I didn't even know that it was a thing.
tester756 5y ago
>Work identity is also a thing. Where you kinda become what you do for a living. Which is bad. lol I've seen once a video called something like "a day of googler" and I was shocked that "average day" was hanging out with your coworkers after the work don't get me wrong, it's not like we dont do it here (poland), but it's from time to time, even when we have insanely good relations with eachother it's 16:00 on the clock and that's it - cya people tomorrow. I hope the video was not reflecting reality well?
- alert0 5y ago
  It wasn't like that at all when I worked there. Quite the opposite, people were very quiet so we could do focused work, we did our work, then went home. We usually ate lunch together. Many of my coworkers had kids to go home and take care of. No one was looking to hang around. I'm sure it varies throughout the company though.

sound1 5y ago

The only country I heard of people working multiple jobs to make ends meet is USA. Definitely not a compliment to the most powerful and influential country in the world.

tayo42 5y ago

> “The most important thing employers can do is to equip managers to have the right kinds of conversations with people,” and the rest, This puts a lot on managers. I don't think leaders in organization are incentivized to make their reports happy. Managers don't get promotions because their team is happy. They get promotions doing things that make quality of life worse, empire building, adding responsibilities, team closing tickets, disruptive changes that only sound good. I don't think managers see happiness as part of their job. I think its a lot to ask people and companies to do this out of the goodness of their heart or expect them to be forward thinking enough to see that happier employees mean better performance. And that second might not even be true, we could be stressed because were trying to be most efficient possible at all times.

jefurii 5y ago

Many countries around the world have an "untouchable" class. I'm most familiar with the burakumin in Japan (disclosure: lived next to a burakumin community while teaching there). These untouchable classes function in society as a way to keep the lowest rungs of the "official" social classes in line. If you don't do your terrible job we can always cast you down there. The United States has untouchable classes as well, they're just called "homeless" or "undocumented" and we are taught to believe that "it's their own fault" rather than the result of a shitty traditional caste system. The last couple decades have expanded this class and made it more visible. I don't think this was a conspiracy, but the existence of this class is certainly advantageous to corporations that want to keep people down.

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tempfs 5y ago

Americans are in constant competition with each other for everything.(jobs,houses(and with foreign investors too),social media points) Fighting, fucking, sleeping... it's all we know how to do anymore. We used to make things, build things, share accomplishments as a society and a nation with each other. Now everything is about the personal accumulation of power/money. Not sure how a society like this is meant to last. Given the events of the last few years and the fact that a cretin like Trump was ever elected President, I'm pretty sure we are 100% fucked.

cafard 5y ago

About forty years ago, a housemate lost his job, he said because Reagan put a hiring freeze on at EPA. He told me that it made people deeply uncomfortable at parties when they asked him what he did and he said, Nothing. This was in Washington, where I still live.