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US bans dog imports from more than 100 countries
- Black101 5y agoThey should ban traveling too because I have heard of many fake vaccine certificates...
- kayodelycaon 5y agoRabies is a lot more lethal and it’s fortunately very rare in the US. The ban makes a lot of sense to me.
- savant_penguin 5y ago25 cases in a decade You are more likely to die by crossing the street
- debacle 5y agoI would be interested to know what it was at its peak. You have to wonder how much of the rabies "scare" of the 90s was manufactured.
- giantg2 5y agoIs that globally? Or is that in the US, with restrictions/vaccinations/etc? Edit: why downvote?
- KerrickStaley 5y agoFrom TFA: > rabies remains widespread across the world, killing some 59,000 people annually So no, 25 / year is not globally.
- giantg2 5y agoThat's basically my point. The restrictions and vaccinations seem to be working.
- wearywanderer 5y agoRabies cases in America are rare specifically because the authorities take it seriously. If authorities stop taking rabies seriously, expect: > An estimated 31,000 human deaths due to rabies occur annually in Asia,[2] with the majority – approximately 20,000 – concentrated in India.
- outworlder 5y agoIf you have been bit by a dog that cannot be located anymore, or that has an uncertain vaccination record, health care providers will initiate the rabies protocol regardless. That's one of the reasons why it is rare in the US.
- sgustard 5y ago>Each year, rabies causes approximately 59,000 deaths worldwide. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/68/wr/mm6823e1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/68/wr/mm6823e1.htm
- kmbfjr 5y agoIt is an absolutely horrible way to die. This may appear to be over the top for 25 cases, but should the vector be via puppies who very much chew and bite their owners, it would certainly be more than 25 cases. It is very prevalent in raccoons, squirrels and skunks — things that attract the attention of dogs. Did I mention, it is an awful way to die because of a puppy and its forged vaccination papers?
- giantg2 5y agoSquirrels very rarely have it.
- Black101 5y ago> Rabies is a lot more lethal which virus are you talking about?
- thrill 5y agoAll of them? Per the CDC, "to date less than 20 cases of human survival from clinical rabies have been documented"
- giantg2 5y agoI would think HIV. It won't kill you quickly, but it will eventually contribute to one's death. There have only been maybe one or two people cured (I forget if it came back or not).
- pessimizer 5y agoOnce you show symptoms of rabies, you are dead in about 10 days, with 100% percent certainty. You might live 100 years after contracting HIV (we don't know because we haven't known about HIV for 100 years.)
- giantg2 5y agoSure, but some people survive rabies. You're talking lethality with a 99.9% kill rate for rabies vs 100% kill rate for HIV. They're just different timeframes. Not to mention, you are liking about symptomatic cases. It's possible to cure non symptomatic cases of rabies, but that's not possible with HIV.
- wearywanderer 5y agoSomewhere on the order of 1-to-10% of people have an innate resistance to HIV. HIV, untreated, is very deadly, but not nearly as deadly as rabies.
- 5y ago
- giantg2 5y agoI think you're comment is a little over the top. But it is true that many pathogens spread through global travel. It's just that most people are either unaware of the risks or feel that they are acceptable.
- Black101 5y agoIt was a bit of a sarcastic comment... they should probably fix the certificates' authenticity problems instead.
- giantg2 5y agoI think covid is a very poor example - it's already endemic through out the world. The real risk will be from things like zika, chikenguya, and things we don't even know about (and that we don't have vaccines or great treatments for).
- loosescrews 5y agoI could be wrong, but I don't think the comment you are replying to is completely serious. I think they are saying that the disease risk of global human travel seems similar to, or higher than, the disease risk of global dog travel and that similar challenges exist. Given this, banning global dog travel and not banning global human travel seems inconsistent. If banning human travel due to disease risk is over the top, is banning dog travel over the top as well? I think the difference, as you say, is that the benefits are not equal.
- giantg2 5y agoIt seems the benefits of a ban would be greater with human bans.
- ggregoire 5y agoYou don't need to be vaccinated to enter the US, you only need a negative COVID test done within 72 hours before traveling. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/international-travel-during-covid19.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/internat...
- outworlder 5y agoBut you do need to be vaccinated to get permanent residency. (which is an interesting requirement for those cases where the person has been living as a 'temporary resident' for years already)
- h2odragon 5y agoHigh-Risk Dog Ban FRN : https://www.cdc.gov/importation/bringing-an-animal-into-the-united-states/high-risk-dog-ban-frn.html https://www.cdc.gov/importation/bringing-an-animal-into-the-... The list of countries: https://www.cdc.gov/importation/bringing-an-animal-into-the-united-states/high-risk.html https://www.cdc.gov/importation/bringing-an-animal-into-the-...
- hirundo 5y agoIt includes India, China, Indonesia, Pakistan, Brazil and Russia, or most of the world by population. The largest nation in population not included is the U.S. itself. The next largest is Mexico at #10. So 8 of the 10 most populous countries are on the list, and one isn't eligible.
- fra 5y ago> Probably most of the dogs too TFA says that those countries represent 6% of dog imports.
- alisonkisk 5y agoSo where do imported dogs come from? Canada? Also, > Hundreds of these dogs had fraudulent rabies certificates, Isn't this most easily fixed by requiring a post-immigration rabies shot?
- jcranmer 5y agoI assume it's mostly people who treat their pets as children, which is largely a Western phenomenon. So, yeah, Canada's probably a large source, as would be most of Western Europe.
- Dylan16807 5y agoWe're talking about people that are moving? You don't have to treat your pet like a child to take it with you when you move...
- bsder 5y agoI don't know why we don't have a permanent ban on this anyway. We don't need to be supporting overseas puppy mills. We have more than enough dogs in the US to adopt.
- version_five 5y agoI think a major use may be people relocating to the US with their dogs.
- johncessna 5y agoThose folks can still apply for a permit. Service dogs and dogs brought for 'or science, education, or exhibition' can also still get import permits.
- sgustard 5y agoFrom the article: "The announcement comes amid a jump in dog importation, linked to the surge in dog adoptions throughout the pandemic."
- debacle 5y agoMore than enough puppy mills as well, and amateur breeders that have no idea what they are doing. Leads to very brutal lives for the mothers (who do not receive adequate healthcare), and dogs with serious socialization issues. I used to think pit bulls all had anxiety issues. Two years after adopting a rescue (not a pit bull), I think it's much more likely that most pit bull breeders do little to nothing to properly socialize those dogs in their early months.
- hellbannedguy 5y agoI've had two America Bull Dog/Staffordshire terrier mixes. The were two brothers. I like the combination because I figured with the Bull Dog genes, they would be on the smaller side. I had no idea American Bull dogs were different that English. I had everything planned out. Got them neutered, and vaccinated. The vet told me to wait 6 weeks before socialization, and doggy training. By 6-8 weeks they were huge. I took them to a class, and the people freaked out. They didn't growel, but I could tell I wasen't welcome. I realized I would just have to keep them away from all dogs. They were just too big, and if their ever was an incident--the other dog wouldn't stand a chance. I love them both, and they were my best friends. Two 140 lb happy dogs. One has some kinda psychological condition. He was a bit moody, and I needed to keep a close watch over him. I was lucky I had a yard, and a 8 foot fence. My point is some breeds grow so quick, socialization is not always possible. The bigger one Chester grew so quick, he had three weeks of growing pains. I remember calling the vet thinking my dog had a stroke because he was walking so weird, and the vet said, "It's just growing pains. Nothing to worry about.". Oh yea, because they were a mixed breed, they had much less health problems than my pedigrees. I will never buy another pedagree again. It's not fair to the dog. I loved every one of my dogs so much. I don't think I will ever get another though. I can't take another dog aging, and dying. I felt worse over my dogs deaths than my fathers. Crazy?
- johncessna 5y agoFor those who are curious which countries are affected and incorrectly thought the information would be the article: https://www.cdc.gov/importation/bringing-an-animal-into-the-united-states/high-risk.html https://www.cdc.gov/importation/bringing-an-animal-into-the-...
- cwkoss 5y agoThere are so many countries, hard to tease out which countries are still allowed. Their alphabetized lists grouped in odd categories are not very user friendly. From what I gather these are the allowed countries: - Canada and Mexico - Chile, Argentina, Uruguay - All of western Europe, most of Eastern Europe except Ukraine (and Turkey if that's EE) - Israel - Japan, South Korea, Singapore - Australia, New Zealand, Fiji Who did I miss?
- aatharuv 5y agoHong Kong and Taiwan were explicitly excluded from the banned countries and political units.
- mgarfias 5y agoArgentina where my wife’s new stud male is coming from is still ok. Thank god.
- aerostable_slug 5y agoI don't get the downvote. What's wrong with being relieved one's partner's new pet will be allowed through?
- aluminum96 5y agoI have always wondered why rabies vaccination is not given standard in childhood. Rabies is incredibly scary -- you camp outside, a bat nips you in your sleep, and by the time you know anything has happened, it's too late.
- Carioca 5y agoBasically, because we don't want to give kids unnecessary vaccines (contrary to what _some_ people say). We don't give yellow fever vaccines to everyone, only to people in high-risk areas. Also, post-exposure treatment is almost 100% effective, so the vaccine goes down in priority
- wnevets 5y ago>Also, post-exposure treatment is almost 100% effective, Only if you know about the exposure before symptoms appear. In the parent's example you don't realize you were actually bit by a bat in your sleep.
- nexuist 5y agoI suppose it is possible, but is it really likely that you'll get bitten by a bat who draws blood and not wake up to the pain of such a bite? Is it likely you'll even get bitten by a bat at all? I thought you have to really fuck with them and be in like a cave or something to be exposed to that kind of risk. I mean, they hang upside down from high vantage points right? Unless you're sleeping in a tree and also flailing around your hands to try to beat the shit out of a bat in your sleep, I don't think any bat would come near you let alone attempt to bite your skin, let alone when you're just laying down and not moving around much.
- wearywanderer 5y agoVampire bats specialized in drawing blood from sleeping victims without waking them. It is rare for them to find human targets, but it happens sometimes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire_bat#Human_health https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire_bat#Human_health
- wearywanderer 5y agoThere are so many dogs already in America, I see absolutely no reason to ever import more.
- nomel 5y agoSome people move to the US from different countries. For most, a dog becomes part of the family, and they want to bring it with them.
- wearywanderer 5y agoA family member that you buy a replacement for every 10 years? I like dogs too, but please get a grip.
- sashk 5y agoI tried for months to adopt a dog -- none of the dogs I applied for were available for adoption the moment I submitted the application. Not sure if it was my luck, but after 20 applications I gave up. edit: typo
- DangitBobby 5y agoIt helps to expand the gene pool of specialized breeds if you seek mates internationally. This is necessary to continue to select for desired traits without resorting to inbreeding or drastically reducing the amount of breeding that's done.
- wearywanderer 5y ago"Specialized breeders" have zero sympathy from me; the only reason they have problems with their gene pool size is because of their own stupid breeding habits and objectives. Go get a mutt from the pound if you need to expand the gene pool of your dogs. The reason German Shepards in America are fucked up is not because import of dogs from Germany is banned, it's because American breeders of German Shepards are fucking idiots [generally speaking.]
- squiggleblaz 5y ago
- benatkin 5y ago> On "an extremely limited basis" some pet owners and other animal lovers may be granted exceptions to the ban by seeking written approval from the CDC at least 30 days before planned entry to the US, the agency said. Good. Hopefully it will become less limited soon. It's easy to imagine a situation in which someone needs to move to the US and needs to have their dog with them. All I have to do is imagine someone who needs to move to the US for some family or business-related reason, and someone who is inseparable from their dog, irrespective of their immigration status, and figure that these are common enough that they could overlap.
- epa 5y agoHow many more "laws" will the CDC write with its new found power?
- kube-system 5y agoThis action has been unambiguously authorized by Congress. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/265 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/265 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/264 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/264
- sergiotapia 5y agoBolivia is on that list. When I moved to the states from Bolivia I brought my wife and children and our little pet. I can imagine how much stress it would have added not being able to bring him with us. This sucks but I can see why they are doing it. Very shitty situation.
- outworlder 5y agoI would not have relocated, period. You can apply for an exemption, though, if you are a "lawful US resident" (their wording). Which adds to the already large documentation pile you need to submit.
- nickthemagicman 5y agoI wonder if your dog was born in America and has had all of his rabies shots in America, and you were just a digital nomad traveling. I wonder if you could bring him back in or what would happen in that situation.
- outworlder 5y agoAccording to the CDC you can, but you have to apply for a permit. You won't be required to submit tithers if the shots have been done in the US. Which requires that this digital life of yours is less than 3 years long, as it's usually the max duration between rabies shots.
- nickthemagicman 5y agoI wonder if I left in the next year or so with valid rabies shots, if the dog could travel with me.
- selimthegrim 5y agoIf you’re a photogenic Peace Corps worker probably yes (cf. #SaveSocrates)
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- trhway 5y agogoogling shows that there is no good test for rabies, yet there is a test showing that vaccine had actually been done. I wonder why such an outright ban instead of the test requirement. Not being able to bring your dog may really be a big pain for people relocating to US (and i think it makes for the wrong filter as the people who would forego relocation in favor of staying together with their dog are the best kind of people).
- nzmsv 5y agoThis is likely less about rabies and people moving with their beloved pet, and more about protecting US-based breeders. The price difference for purebred dogs (and cats) can be as much as 10x inside the US vs outside. I know people who specifically traveled to get the pet they wanted at a discount.
- carapace 5y agoThis is about rabies. It's a horrible disease, the stuff of nightmares for three thousand years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabies
- nzmsv 5y agoAnd the chicken tax is about chickens. Cute velociraptors that cluck and lay eggs. Even though it is actually about installing fake seats in trucks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax And condescension is about pretending the other person is dumb and explaining to them that the sky is blue and water is wet. And American superiority is about somehow assuming that people in other countries don't know how to vaccinate against rabies.
- carapace 5y agoPeople are importing dogs with forged rabies certificates. This isn't some conspiracy to gouge dog lovers.
- nzmsv 5y agoWell, not a conspiracy exactly, but I seriously doubt that someone paying $2000 for a puppy would refuse to pay $100 for all the necessary shots and an international veterinarian pet passport. Why are they going abroad in the first place? Because the same puppy goes for $20000 in the US. $3000 (with vaccines and round trip flight) is still less than $20000. This is not in any way theoretical by the way. People do this. Most will still go to the vet and comply with all the regulations once in the US. They are just looking to save a few bucks.
- kolanos 5y ago> The pandemic-driven jump in dog adoptions was linked to a spike in dogs brought in to the US with falsified or fraudulent rabies certificates. During 2020, the CDC found more than 450 dogs arriving in the US with fake certificates - a 52% jump compared to the previous two years - Dr Emily Pieracci of the CDC told NPR. So a million dogs are imported into the U.S. every year and the CDC is banning all importation because of 450 fraudulent cases?
- mariojv 5y agoWouldn't this be trivial, although maybe a little expensive, to circumvent by sending the dog through a layover to an allowed country? Dogs don't routinely carry passports indicating their origin, although that would be amusing. I guess if the goal is to statistically minimize the spread of disease, it still works by decreasing the number of dogs coming in, though. I suppose it would depend on the replication rate of the disease in question whether that is effective.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]