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Reality Winner, NSA contractor in leak case, out of prison
- aerophilic 5y agoI realize this is off topic, but I just have to say… that is a pretty awesome name. One joke we had in grad school is great roboticists had interesting names… one of my favorite examples was Howie Choset (How he choose it). One of the many interesting/colorful folk I have met on my journey. I sometimes wonder that by having an “unusual name”, by making you “stand out”, further promotes you to deliberately stand out.
- 7373737373 5y agoI randomly encountered one of the works of Kelly Kosmo O'Neil, an astrophysicist: https://www.researchgate.net/scientific-contributions/Kelly-Kosmo-ONeil-2154743170 https://www.researchgate.net/scientific-contributions/Kelly-... :)
- InitialLastName 5y agoThe Philadelphia police commissioner's name is Danielle Outlaw.
- anonydsfsfs 5y agoSounds like an instance of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominative_determinism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominative_determinism
- antognini 5y agoWhen I was in astronomy one of the authors on a seminal paper in my subfield was named Aristotle Socrates. I think he left astronomy, but he had a number of well cited papers: https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/search/fq=%7B!type%3Daqp%20v%3D%24fq_database%7D&fq_database=database%3A%20astronomy&q=author%3A(%22%5Esocrates%2C%20a%22)&sort=citation_count%20desc%2C%20bibcode%20desc&p_=0 https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/search/fq=%7B!type%3Daqp%20v%3...
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- astrange 5y agoI still think Ransom Love is the strangest name in tech, but this one's a close second.
- heavyset_go 5y agoI was convinced for the longest time that her name was just an alias investigators used, but I agree, great name.
- thamer 5y agoYou mean like the Austin urologist named Dick Chopp, who specializes in vasectomies? He even offers a t-shirt to his patients that reads "I was 'chopped' at the Urology Team." (all of this is true)
- elp 5y agoThere is a urologist at my local hospital by the name of Dr Hardon
- swader999 5y agoNot going to Google for this.
- skunkworker 5y agoI've also had a doctor and surgeon with the last name Slaughter, but that's a much more common surname.
- gonzo 5y agoThere was a cardio surgeon in the 70s in Las Vegas named Slaughter.
- chiph 5y agoHe retired last November. I had a coworker who used his services (but never wore the t-shirt to work)
- gnat 5y agoMy urologist in Colorado was Dr Peter Standard. https://www.md.com/doctor/peter-standard-md https://www.md.com/doctor/peter-standard-md
- bondolo 5y agoMy wife's urologist in Berkeley was Dr. Piser: http://www.goldengateurology.com/md-joel-piser.html http://www.goldengateurology.com/md-joel-piser.html
- crawfordcomeaux 5y agoI legally changed my name to Peacefully Revoking Consent To Be Governed/ For You/ And For/ All (/'s indicate name breaks). It definitely encourages me to deliberately stand out.
- failwhaleshark 5y agoI'll let you incur the wrath of the desk name placard makers and business card printers.
- bingidingi 5y agoDoug Bowser is the president of Nintendo of America. Surname usually isn't exercised as a choice... but he probably got slightly more attention for it at Nintendo. Maybe that was enough! I think there's something to the name theory, though it's probably ~1% of the equation. Someone with a colorful name probably has colorful parents, which would be the other ~99%. Somewhat related, check out Nominative Determinism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominative_determinism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominative_determinism
- Clewza313 5y agoThese is, inevitably, a subreddit devoted to it as well: https://www.reddit.com/r/NominativeDeterminism/ https://www.reddit.com/r/NominativeDeterminism/
- killingtime74 5y agoReminds me of a race horse lol
- Clewza313 5y agoMany HN readers aspire to someday be Zeus Engineer: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zeus-engineer-83b4111b/?originalSubdomain=nz https://www.linkedin.com/in/zeus-engineer-83b4111b/?original...
- openthc 5y agoImportant part, not in the headline: > moved to home confinement and remains in the custody of the federal Bureau of Prisons
- jkaplowitz 5y agoTrue, though the headline at least avoids contradicting that. From another source found via Wikipedia, it looks like she's in a halfway house in Texas rather than actually at home: https://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/nsa-leaker-reality-winner-released-from-prison-attorney-says/7H7KZ57WDVDLTCZRLUAIUHXDYQ/ https://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/nsa-leaker-reality-win... Another important part of the submitted article which is not in the headline: her official release date is November 23 of this year. It's not clear to me from the article whether that date will be the end of her sentence (no further supervision by the judiciary) or a transition to probation or supervised release for some unknown longer period.
- cwkoss 5y agoAs someone who has been a big fan of Wikileaks, something about this story has always felt off to me - like this is some sort of state disinfo op rather than a 'real' leak. The revelations from Winner's leak didn't seem subversive - rather they seemed to bolster arguments for RussiaGate and the new digital cold war - both of which were growing DNC talking points. Does anyone else feel the same way? Or do I just have too much tinfoil on my head?
- pydry 5y agoWhat's off? RussiaGate was a Democrat talking point which Trump hated. She was put away while Trump was president and released now that Biden is in power.
- meroes 5y agoThe leaks were subversive...to the camp that thinks Wikileaks didn't also spread state sponsored Russian disinfo (unwittingly or not).
- cwkoss 5y agoDo you have a source on any instance where Wikileaks spread "disinfo"? Wikileaks likely did spread information which was provided by and served the interests of Russia, but I've never seen a credible argument that false information was published.
- meroes 5y agoI view the GRU stealing private data and using Wikileaks to coordinate releasing it as disinfo.
- cwkoss 5y agoI think classifying 'stolen' data that is accurate being released as "disinfo" is a horrifying and dangerous precedent. Where do you draw the line between what wikileaks did and other investigative reporting that uses information from whistleblowers? Were the pentagon papers disinfo? It seems like your position taken to its extreme would disregard all information except info willingly broadcasted by the state, and make us blind to stories of war crimes, corruption, anything else that embarrasses or threatens the state.
- adenozine 5y agoIs "pleaded guilty" correct, grammatically? Would it not instead be written as "pled guilty" in that article?
- chitowneats 5y agoA cursory googling suggests that both are grammatically correct. I had the same intuition.
- saalweachter 5y agoIn general you should expect the number of irregular verbs to shrink over time. If I see a regularized form that grates, I don't even bother to check anymore; I just sigh a "kids these days" and move on.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- dragonwriter 5y agoBoth “pleaded” and “pled” are correctish, but “pleaded” more so: https://www.grammarly.com/blog/pleaded-pled/ https://www.grammarly.com/blog/pleaded-pled/
- ithkuil 5y agoIs correctish correct or just correctish?
- brutal_chaos_ 5y agoDoes the set of all sets contain itself?
- patorjk 5y ago> Her lawyer, Alison Grinter Allen, said in a statement that Winner and her family are working to “heal the trauma of incarceration and build back the years lost.” She looks tough in the photo from the article, but I remember back when she was arrested she looked so young and innocent [1]. I wonder how prison has changed/traumatized her. Her sentence always seemed a little excessive to me. [1] https://www.chron.com/national/slideshow/10-things-to-know-about-Reality-Winner-146242.php https://www.chron.com/national/slideshow/10-things-to-know-a...
- Cullinet 5y agoExcessive sentencing, as I think happened here, I believe goes hand in hand with political verdicts because the judges are required to ignore any mitigating factors out of hand entirely in justification of their decision. I've just seen the same steeling of physical appearance happen to friends, sadly. My attorney for one. I got accidentally caught up in something that has led to situations such as the rewriting of articles on globally highly trusted news sites. Without trying to mitigate anything, any man or woman who is confronted with the true disparity of actual power, push comes to shove, reacts like this. A more cynical view that I could imagine my father coming up with would be this is merely proof of how easy life is today. My father was born into no question about it poverty in 1907? The experience of the great depression turned him into a notable community banker on his uncanny ability to correctly determine the credit worthiness of mortgage borrowers with virtually zero statistical data. Left school at 14, night school, ended up getting roasted on TV for his political views of keeping profit motive out of housing finance. This is my prime example of comparative social mobility, rather than just a family anecdote. Victor Neiderhoffer in his book The Education of A Speculator, published in time to describe the precise way he went bust during the Thailand currency collapse, is excellent description of what early century Brighton Beach and environs poverty and opportunities looked and felt like. Neiderhoffer sold everything he owned to scrape back to make his investors whole, took him twenty years while appearing to do a crackpot number as a very difficult to understand journalist complete with cult following, but I never believed that, some people are forever shaped by experiences of poverty, even if indirectly, and abhor to the point of physical intolerance, any idea of going down as a historical destroyer of capital. Just as the modern economy has created a incredible new complexity in between anyone less than fortunate, and a liveable (ie not life curtailing) middle class (the American definition of economic lifestyle, European class ideas are too "nuanced" to put it politely), there has created a incredible burden of legal complexity bearing down indiscriminately on simple citizens and more than ever those among us naively convinced of the acceptance and value of civic virtues.
- alksjdalkj 5y agoThere's a play "Is This A Room" based on the transcript of her arrest - I haven't seen it but This American Life has an excerpt: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/696/low-hum-of-menace/act-two-11 https://www.thisamericanlife.org/696/low-hum-of-menace/act-t.... For some reason I found it really unsettling.
- dredmorbius 5y agoAudio media: https://stream.thisamericanlife.org/696/9LoIvHi0DhLVUFeleKD_GGFjql2WODmFuIkcDzZLI8s/696.mp3 https://stream.thisamericanlife.org/696/9LoIvHi0DhLVUFeleKD_... Segment begins at 37:33 Related: "Don't talk to the police" https://youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE https://youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE https://www.vice.com/en/article/mvkgnp/law-professor-police-interrogation-law-constitution-survival https://www.vice.com/en/article/mvkgnp/law-professor-police-...
- Dylovell 5y agoThanks for posting the related video. I learned a lot
- comodore_ 5y agoAs of today, the intercept still has not provided any public accounting of their screw up.
- dredmorbius 5y agoMicah Lee has AFAIR commented generally. He claims he was not consulted on activities by the Intercept.
- dredmorbius 5y agoMicah Lee's comments on The Intercept's handling of Reality Winner's case can be found in "Working Securely", see pp. 2--3: Sadly in both the Terry Albury and Reality Winner cases, I think there was little we could have done to prevent them from getting caught. In Reality’s case there’s a lot we should have done better, but even if we did it all perfectly, she almost certainly would still have gotten caught because of how things happened on her end that were outside of our control. In fact the affidavit against her doesn’t mention printer dots or anything like that. I believe the lack of mention of specific identity tagging in affadavits is something of a red herring. Winner admitted in her interview with the FBI during the initial search to smuggling out the documents, as noted in the TAL re-enactment above. There's no need to go beyond the sufficient in establishing cause or belief. https://greenletters.files.wordpress.com/2019/06/working-securely-101-outline.pdf https://greenletters.files.wordpress.com/2019/06/working-sec... [PDF] NYT on The Intercept's handing of Winner's documents: The startling carelessness about protecting Ms. Winner was particularly mystifying at an organization that had been founded on security. The Intercept had hired leaders in digital security, Ms. Clark and Micah Lee, for just such situations. [Intercept journalist] Mr. [Matthew] Cole did not involve them at all. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/13/business/media/the-intercept-source-reality-winner.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/13/business/media/the-interc... And more on the Intercept's own internal investigation (I'm not aware that this has been published or substantially disclosed): https://www.mic.com/articles/179880/the-intercept-is-investigating-its-publication-of-the-nsa-document-tied-to-reality-winner https://www.mic.com/articles/179880/the-intercept-is-investi...
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- Cullinet 5y agois this the intercept magazine, the one at least formerly edited by a apparently entirely uninformed self appointed security expert, who nevertheless successfully duped Snowden into sending files in the clear literally by wearing him down with obstinate indigence and ignorance of the most elementary encryption concepts in a simultaneously suspicious display of incapacity to comprehend the most clear and simple instructions and theory of operation provided to him repeatedly over the course of months?
- comodore_ 5y agothis is a very long and weird sentence and I don't really understand what you're getting at
- wyldfire 5y agoI think they're referring to Greenwald. I'm guessing this describes the interaction [1]. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2014/05/14/edward-snowden-sent-glenn-greenwald-this-video-guide-about-encryption-for-journalists-greenwald-ignored-it/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2014/05/14...
- d1str0 5y agoGreenwald left the intercept though quite a while ago so this is all very confusing.
- staunch 5y agoIt doesn't seem like this was a proper whistle blower case. She did not use good judgement here, in my opinion. But her punishment was overly harsh. Especially if you consider how much the federal government leaks, and how few people are prosecuted for it, and how little harm it does in most cases. She was made an example of precisely because she was a low-level employee with no power or connections. Which is obviously wrong on a very deep level. And that's the big story here.
- rurp 5y agoMy thoughts as well. She obviously did something wrong and should be punished, but man, so many more powerful people have gotten away with way less punishment for much worse transgressions.
- elliekelly 5y agoI think “good judgment” is somewhat relative. She was in her early 20s at the time. I think it’s hard to grasp the reality of potential legal consequences and the full weight of the American government at that age.
- ganoushoreilly 5y agoI disagree, she had previously Served in the Military and was working at a D.o.D (NSA JOINT) facility. She was also working within those walls during the Snowden leaks. It was probably the opposite, she was likely constantly inundated with the legal consequences of leaks and disclosures. I would argue many people don't fully process the consequences of their actions regardless of age. That's a separate issue we have to solve for. In this instance (right or wrong) she was found guilty, she admitted to the action, and she did the time. Hopefully she's able to find gainful employment moving forward.
- watwatinthewat 5y agoShe was in the Air Force a full term before she was a contractor, and the UCMJ is beat into you in the military. Also, being in an intelligence squadron stationed at Ft Meade no less, she would have had tons of annual training on security requirements and their consequences. It's possible being younger meant she thought she was more likely to get away with it, but she certainly had enough briefings on the legal consequences to know what could happen if caught.
- Simulacra 5y agoWhere is the line, and more importantly who decides, between laws to protect secret documents, and the right of the public to know of wrongdoing?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- foxfired 5y agoI'm surprised there is more noise about her story than about the content of the leak. "Is it fair to prosecute her? Was she wrong? Should there be laws to make this information public to the people?" Shouldn't the question be: What about the content of the leak? Same thing with Snowden. The question turns from how is the government spying on you, to is it fair to prosecute him? Is he a hero? Should he be pardoned? What about "is the government still spying? Did we shut down the program?" I think this is a perfect example of information control.
- zosima 5y agoNews and discussions tend to eventually move their focus onto single individuals. I guess one can learn two things from that: 1. If you want an issue discussed, find a person who can symbolize it. i.e. who is the single individual spying on us? Should he be allowed to do that? 2. If you want to avoid having what you're doing discussed, make sure there isn't a single identifiable individual available to blame. Works wonders to avoid focus.
- mkr-hn 5y agoThis is why many big events in civil rights history involve carefully picked individuals working with a rights organization doing a protest. It's easier to win if the person brings the right stuff for the empathy of people who make the decision.
- ssalka 5y agoThe content of the leak is where all the real blame is – for those near the top crafting narratives, that is arguably something they actively want to avoid :) If I wanted to be real cheeky, I would say the government has an incentive to not investigate things that would cause it to make self-incriminating statements.
- xwolfi 5y agoNo it's the perfect example of trust (misguided or not) electors have. So since nobody care about the police policing (heavily preemptively or not), the paper saleemens ink them with more enjoyable individual stories.
- rcurry 5y agoI’d like to say I’m being glib here, but doesn’t the fact that the NSA gives someone named Reality Winner a clearance kind of put the blame on them for this one? You hire a flake, you’re gonna have to deal with the fallout.
- brutal_chaos_ 5y agoMaybe their parents were an odd bunch. Should we behave differently towards the person for that? Or, am I talking out my rear because the person changed their name? (In that case, yeah, it's on the NSA).
- rcurry 5y agoSee, that’s exactly my point. If her parents were an “odd bunch” then that’s exactly the sort of thing that an investigator should flag as a no no in terms of national security roles. If there is even the slightest whiff that someone’s an odd duck then you shouldn’t go there. They did that, and got bit on the ass for it. Simple as that. I don’t think you’re talking out your ass, but I’m a former intelligence puke and I am honestly shocked at how stupid our intelligence agencies have become over the last few decades. For me, it’s just a simple black and white calculus - if you want to keep secrets, you don’t hire flakes. That’s neither here nor there on the moral spectrum, I’m just talking about keeping secrets secret, which is really hard no matter how you slice it.
- sterlind 5y agothis sounds a lot like the rationale given for denying security clearances to LGBT people up through the 90s. there were gay spy rings back in the day, but that's precisely because being gay was blackmailable - if we're allowed to serve openly, it's not a security risk. calling a huge segment of the population "flakes" for matters outside their control, and denying them clearances, isn't just unfair, it's likely contributing to the massive brain drain going on in intelligence. I'm treated a lot better in industry, thank you.
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- failwhaleshark 5y agoDaniel Ellsberg recently turned 90 and is risking prison releasing previously-undisclosed documents. Edit: Recent interview https://www.democracynow.org/2021/6/14/daniel_ellsberg_on_whistleblowers_julian_assange https://www.democracynow.org/2021/6/14/daniel_ellsberg_on_wh...
- Symmetry 5y agoHis most recent book on nuclear war, The Doomsday Machine, was very much worth reading.
- failwhaleshark 5y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27396303 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27396303 :)
- failwhaleshark 5y agoPS: Watch live https://www.democracynow.org https://www.democracynow.org at - 5 AM Pacific - 6 AM Mountain - 7 AM Central - 8 AM Eastern every Mon-Fri or anytime after that for mainstream-agnostic daily headlines and 2x25 or 50 minutes of analysis.
- jtdev 5y agoIt’s shocking how fast leftists will throw people in the mud and join in jackbooting them in servitude to their holy genocidal maniac leaders… and then paint a rainbow or raised fist over the narrative and claim moral high ground.
- RickJWagner 5y ago"when she printed a classified report and left the building with it tucked into her pantyhose" She got off too easy.
- wly_cdgr 5y agoThere was a good HN thread about the printer surveillance tech that got Reality busted. Here it is: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14494818 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14494818