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> Surveys show anywhere from 25% to upwards of 40% of workers are thinking about quitting their jobs. This number is meaningless without previous year trends.

• tgtweak 5y ago
  I appreciate the alternative perspective and productive-pessimism, but anecdotally in my immediate social circle of engineers, 5 have changed jobs - all for substantial upgrades, and not 1 of them was for a job that required office presence or downgrade in quality of environment. The last year has been so strong for online tech that there is a heavy vacuum effect on the available talent. FAANG are struggling to fill demand in hiring and are offering increasingly high salaries. This cascades to other industries. Top engineering talent at logistics companies are leaving to go work for big tech, same with banks. Recruiters are charging 22-25% for placements, and having difficulties filling them. Not just tech, other industries as well. There was this initial moment of employment "musical chairs" when the pandemic set in and everybody who had a job was clinging to it, but we're now in a solid counter-reaction where even traditional industries are having their workforce disrupted by new opportunities. We're not even seeing the full brunt of it, with many industries running at reduced capacity (travel, hospitality, entertainment). Generally speaking, if people are leaving jobs for new ones (or none...) it's because they calculated that it was for the better, thus, I think people will generally be happier about their state of employment in 2022 as the article states. I'll add that many people working minimum wage jobs took this opportunity to become entrepreneurs which is a really healthy step up from that situation.
  • screye 5y ago
    Agreed. My point was more about taking a break or negotiating better QOL. My anecdotal experience is similar to yours in terms of compensation. However, I haven't seen anyone be able to negotiate lower hours, more vacation or periodic employment that would allow them to pursue the 'RE' once they have reached the 'FI' of FIRE. Lifestyle creep only moves in one direction and is usually permanent.
    • tgtweak 5y ago
      Yeah I will agree on this - higher pay higher stakes usually. I know a few that moved out of 996 companies and are much MUCH happier, and better compensated. One used the offer to solicit a counter-offer and extra vacation time at her current role so I guess it's not all terrible.
  • thatfrenchguy 5y ago
    > FAANG are struggling to fill demand in hiring and are offering increasingly high salaries This has been the case, according to my colleagues who are older, since at least 2003 ;-)
    • vmception 5y ago
      > Recruiters are charging 22-25% for placements, and having difficulties filling them. This has been the same as well, to my knowledge, since 2010
    • rubicon33 5y ago
      And yet, they still persist on presenting leetcode riddles that have very little relevance to the job being interviewed for. If they were hurting that much for devs, you'd think they might lower the bar a little by not requiring a years study of leetcode.
      • kamarg 5y ago
        It's more expensive to make a bad hire than to not hire someone and move a bit slower.
• dcolkitt 5y ago
  > Expressing intent to resign, and actually resigning are completely different things. You have to ask yourself, why this is the case. And the simple answer is status quo bias. Many dream of a different life, but few will actually pull the trigger on a major change. However if a company suddenly changes an established working relationship, then all bets are off the table. If people have gotten used to WFH, and now you make them come into the office, then you’re invalidating the status quo bias. Switching jobs is probably less disruptive to their status quo then going back to the office. Corporate managers are forgetting a very maxim. Never piss off your employees by taking away something they feel entitled to. It’s the same reason that it’s virtually unheard of to cut salary, even when revenue is collapsing in a deflationary recession.
  • Wonnk13 5y ago
    >Never piss off your employees by taking away something they feel entitled to. I've read one of the easiest ways to break moral in an office is to simply take away the snacks. Forget nap pods, or walking desks- don't touch my clif bars!!
    • ryandrake 5y ago
      Steve Blank wrote about this: https://steveblank.com/2009/12/21/the-elves-leave-middle-earth-–-soda’s-are-no-longer-free/ https://steveblank.com/2009/12/21/the-elves-leave-middle-ear...
      • vidarh 5y ago
        I like the one who suggested the answer to the question of how much the free drinks cost should be "less than the cost of hiring a single engineer".
        • sokoloff 5y ago
          Used to work at an office where they got rid of free drinks. The morning it happened, Top Engineer 1 sent a mail to all Boston staff announcing he was thirsty and asked if anyone else was similarly thirsty and wanted to join him on a grocery trip to buy soda. Three cars full of engineers went to the grocery store, taking a little over an hour. Free drinks returned later that same week.
• pmlnr 5y ago
  A vast amount of my colleagues left in spring last year, well before any redundancies were even on the table. All in their 30s, most 35+.
• jason0597 5y ago
  > In my circles, everyone from 25-35 is simultaneously preparing to FIRE It's still shocking to me how "chill" this is. "Oh yeah, I'm about to FIRE, no big problem". Achieving FIRE is such a mind blowing concept to me, Let alone at 25-35!!! Where I live we don't have fat six figure salaries flying around allowing us to accumulate a chunky ETF portfolio to live off of. Be grateful for what you have achieved! > Suddenly, having good health insurance, WFH 'flexibility' and a stable jobs are now being viewed as things to be grateful about rather than the norm for well educated and employable adults. Do you realise how the bottom ~50% of the US workforce lives [1]?! Getting paid six figures or more easily puts you in the top 10% of income earners in the US. Why are you talking as if these should be the norm? They clearly aren't by all metrics. You have such incredible benefits for the work you do, why do you believe you shouldn't feel any privilege or gratitude? [1] https://www.legalreader.com/low-wage-jobs-are-the-new-american-normal/ https://www.legalreader.com/low-wage-jobs-are-the-new-americ...
  • viraptor 5y ago
    > Achieving FIRE is such a mind blowing concept to me What's FIRE in this context?
    • jason0597 5y ago
      I presume it means Financial Independence Retire Early, most famously known on the relevant subreddit [1] [1]: https://reddit.com/r/financialindependence/ https://reddit.com/r/financialindependence/
    • deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    • SuoDuanDao 5y ago
      Financial Independence Retiring Early. The basic assumption generally being, anyone who can save two-thirds of each paycheque and invest in a portfolio yielding 4% per year after inflation can retire in 10 years. Saving two-thirds of each paycheque is of course difficult unless one is in a high pay grade to begin with, but there are enough people with the necessary discipline to keep the dream alive for many of us.
• deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
• the_gastropod 5y ago
  > In my circles, everyone from 25-35 is simultaneously preparing to FIRE and no-one that's 35+ has actually changed jobs despite being 'financially independent'. I think your circles are rather unusual, if this is true. A $900k net worth is in the 99th percentile for 30-34 year olds and 95th percentile for 35-40 year olds in the US (https://dqydj.com/net-worth-by-age-calculator-united-states/ https://dqydj.com/net-worth-by-age-calculator-united-states/) Even among my anecdotal very-highly-compensated NYC tech-salary coworkers and friends, having money issues and easily sub $100k net worths is way more common than not.
  • ghaff 5y ago
    I didn't have any substantial savings until I was well into my 30s. I didn't graduate from grad school until I was 28. (Worked for a few years prior in engineering but nothing like the salary levels in SWE today.)
    • jghn 5y ago
      Despite being in software I had no savings until my late 30s. I am forever grateful that our field is one that allows for huge earnings, as it has enabled me to flip that all the way around. I'm now in my mid/late-40s and show up as low/mid 80s on that calculator depending on if I include my home equity. When I punch in my net worth at 40 I was around 20%. If my current glide path holds I'd be low-90s when I turn 50. While unlikely to be feasible, it's in the realm of possibility that I could retire by mid-50s. That's a privileged position simply not available to most human beings. Really remarkable when one thinks about it.
      • ghaff 5y ago
        Yeah, I did OK through the 90s but it was certainly not a high-paying job by current coastal software standards. (I actually looked at a few west coast jobs in that period and, frankly, they'd have been a downgrade because of CoL. Stocks were hit pretty hard, including my shares in my employer, and for various reasons my job during the next decade I generally liked (and it set me up for my current job well) but it didn't pay that well. It was only really my current job and associated stock which took savings from just OK to pretty decent. I could retire now if I wanted to but not really in a big hurry assuming business travel comes back post-COVID.
• lupire 5y ago
  > Real Translation: Covid has made people miserable in their jobs. contradicts > This number is meaningless without previous year trends.
• ggggtez 5y ago
  Agree with the "miserable" comment. Dissatisfaction will cause people to move around in the market. I don't know how much I buy the argument that people are looking for WFH, more than that they are looking to not work in a service industry which has low benefits low pay, and no chance of upward mobility. The pandemic is giving people a chance to realize their career has stalled. I think everyone already knew that the US healthcare system was broken, but maybe people are realizing changing careers is the only way out of that bind. Tech workers would be fine under any situation, so I don't think it's right to compare your FIRE friends with a cruise ship waiter. It's important to note that tech workers make up no where close to 40% of all workers, and that most of the people discussed here are lower class seeking upward mobility. Being miserable is just the catalyst for seeking a way out of their situation.
• comeonseriously 5y ago
  > Expressing intent to resign, and actually resigning are completely different things. I bet if HC were not employment centered, this would be much different. In the US, it's a badge of honor to have a "job with benefits". Switching jobs and not having HC benefits that are as good or cost more weighs heavy on the minds of most people.
• baccheion 5y ago
  I wonder if they really think the powers that be will allow them to retire early. Most will be working until 75+, unless the socialism/automation conspiracy theory comes to fruition.
  • compiler-guy 5y ago
    People hit financial independence and retire early all the time. It's quite routine. It is definitely hard for food service workers, and what not, but the powers that be really don't have much say.
    • baccheion 5y ago
      Many do it by 38-42. Less and less likely to happen, given what's transpired in the last decade or 2.
  • sdenton4 5y ago
    The powers that be need to start making offers that are harder to refuse for people who don't actually /need/ a job, then. For example, allowing part-time work...
• notabothonest 5y ago
  Well, this is an ultra-cynical take on the article. It's also a little myopic in the sense that it assumes increased work flexibility must somehow have a high associated cost, such as loss of insurance, or lack of job stability. That just isn't the case. Although I don't believe that we're about to enter some form of work/life balance utopia, just from my own circle of friends, big changes are inbound. Firstly, many of us, including me, have for years been told that working from home more than a day a week was an impossibility, and that we should be grateful for that 1 day at all. Although frequently WFH days came with caveats, such as no Mon/Fri WFH, and there was the ever present threat of it being taken away. Then, along comes the pandemic, and 'lo and behold, I've been working home for over a year without any issue. So have the bulk of the people I know, especially those in the technology sector. All of a sudden the dozens of arguments I have had with clients and employers over the years have all landed firmly on what I have been saying all along; we don't need to be in work every day, hell, we don't even need to be in work every week. The cat is out of the bag now, and there isn't going to be putting it back in. A lot of the last year has been positive for many, including me. I've seen more of my own daughter in the past year than I've seen in the previous 7 years combined, and I've come to appreciate how important that has been to both of us. I'm not about to let that go without a fight.
  • lanstin 5y ago
    Absolutely this. And it showed that the work output itself is better when the knowledge worked is better off. At least for the teams I am interacting with. Less BS time and more good code.
  • deevolution 5y ago
    Actually just requested a 4 day work week for the same amount of money. Wish me luck! Seems reasonable to me tho, I can probably provide the same amount of value as if I worked 5 days a week - but who knows maybe they will just give me more work to do instead!
    • notabothonest 5y ago
      Good luck! Now is the time to do it, and get it put into your contract. You have additional leverage as employers are panicked by stories of workers resigning en masse if not granted additional working from home time. Don't fall for the "you can do more work because you're not commuting" line - if commuting is considered work time, then you deserve to be remunerated for that time, and they owe you back pay for each day you commuted in the past.
• swyx 5y ago
  ah, base rate neglect, the stock in trade of a newspaper. thanks for the reminder!
• zikduruqe 5y ago
  > Suddenly, having good health insurance Just think, we could all pursue our hopes, dreams and soul satisfying pursuits, if having good health insurance wasn't directly tied to having a "good job".
  • omegaworks 5y ago
    But then you might have to wait a couple weeks to have a non-critical procedure. gasp
    • ansgri 5y ago
      In such countries you can usually pay a reasonable price (fully known upfront!) to skip the line.
      • the_doctah 5y ago
        So people with more money can keep paying to skip me? I'm sure that would work well in the US
        • marcosdumay 5y ago
          It's not exactly to skip you. It's to get into another place, that you can not access if you don't pay. It's basically "You have those basic needs filled here under those conditions. If you don't want that, there's a free market up there where you can bargain something better." Of course, how "basic" are the needs filled and what conditions vary a lot from country to country.
• scruffyherder 5y ago
  I’ll press y to quit. I’ve been trying for years.
• lowbloodsugar 5y ago
  >Real Translation: Covid has made people miserable in their jobs. I am far happier in my job and my career. And if my employer decides that they require people to come to the office, then I shall find a different employer who doesn't.
• giantg2 5y ago
  I guess I fall into the idle fantasy category. I dream of quiting my job. I do look at job postings, but I don't see any better jobs in my area (that I'm even remotely qualified for).
• foobiekr 5y ago
  I think this is true. What I’ve noticed about the fire people is that they have very unrealistic budgets (static based on what they spend at age 30 often forgetting to include things like healthcare and other forms of insurance, as well as changes in lifestyle). Once you’re in your 40s, and you’re at the peak of your earnings, it’s actually really hard to walk away even if you’ve hit your target. I do know quite a few people first hand who have quit but only in there very late 40s or who made north of $10 million at one point or another.
• djtriptych 5y ago
  If you can do it, I recommend it to everyone. You don't really know yourself until you've spent a month or two with ZERO outside obligations. Quite hard to do. I did a couple of multi-month gaps in my 30s.
• MisterBastahrd 5y ago
  COVID hasn't made people miserable in their jobs. COVID has exposed how pathetic the commute-to-work experience is in comparison to working from home. A lot of people are just fine not keeping up a work wardrobe, or getting up every day to get dressed and groomed for work, or driving to the office every day. It personally takes me 45 minutes to get to work on a good day. If my employer tried to force me into the office while I could get a job elsewhere that would allow me to make around the same money to work from home, I'm gone. I'd save about $2500 in gas alone. And for the record, I love my co-workers. Every single one is a software development veteran, professional in their day to day activities, and is motivated to producing quality work. But I'd still rather work with a knucklehead from time to time than give up the 2+ hours of daily time that going back to the office would require.
• davidthewatson 5y ago
  > Real Translation: Covid has made people miserable in their jobs. No, people were miserable in their jobs prior to the Covid era. The Covid era just gave them the repose they needed to reframe their job experience and their relationship to their employers. That's a positive development for Americans and their employers.
• maybelsyrup 5y ago
  > Real Translation: Covid has made people miserable in their jobs. Small quibble: Covid has shown people how miserable their jobs have always been. All it's taken is a slight shift, a small perk, here and there, and people see it clear as day, and they want out. White collar workers got work from home: actually, it turns out I can give legal advice while planting basil in my backyard and no one on the conference call either notices or gives a shit. Blue collar workers got unemployment benefits that pay a living wage without needing to work 3 jobs and die of an early heart attack worrying about how they'll feed their kids. I think lots of myth and propaganda about work got blown up in the last year, and it's cause for celebration.
  • nonotreally6 5y ago
    You mean the Fed printed a ton of money and sent it to everyone making less than a certain amount, and the government guaranteed wages for those who no longer wish to work, and caused a labor shortage and inflation. Soon those benefits will be insufficient, due to inflation, if the government continues to print money, and the real wages of the existing wage earners who actually produce value for the good of society by working are eroded and redistributed to those who don't wish to work. If it keeps up, soon we'll all be poor, nobody will earn a living wage, but at least it will be equitable! Don't forget that printing money for stimulus checks is borrowing at greatest expense to the lowest wage earners in order to pay those who choose not to work at all It's not some revealed flaw in capitalism that given short term wages that are the same for working and for doing nothing, that people choose the latter.
    • scotuswroteus 5y ago
      That's not what they meant, actually
    • onethought 5y ago
      Actually on gdp alone there is enough money in the US for everyone to have a living wage… checkout northern euros or Australia for example of what that looks like. The problem with the fed stimulus was the benefits too large corps.
• mym1990 5y ago
  Anecdotal but one of my friends quit an amazing job(good pay, wfh, flexibility, etc...) in search of something better and can’t go 5 minutes without thinking about quitting the new job. I can’t really imagine moving companies right now in the midst of a lot of uncertainly on future office state(maybe that’s just me tho)
• autokad 5y ago
  back in 2015 or so, I was complaining about how having to study for leetcode is not sustainable for someone to live, thus this makes tech a horrendous life choice as a career. Because having to keep doing this throughout our life when we get families and other life events going on is not a sustainable path. I was downvoted, told if you want to make money what's the big deal, etc etc. During the pandemic, the companies that were still hiring stepped up the bar. Maybe that was the push needed to tell people what the ramifications of this is. Now I am finally hearing from a lot of engineers: "Am I going to have to do this my whole life? I don't want to do this now let alone for the rest of my life". I have dozens of friends from Microsoft to Google plotting their exists. If all goes well, I am out in 8 years (but things rarely go well). I have a number and once I get to it, I am out. I dont want to deal with this shit anymore
  • avidiax 5y ago
    Studying Leetcode is no fun to be sure. But, you'll never find a greater return on investment than preparing well and interviewing well. It often results in a major pay raise, a new and often better company, a new and often better project, sometimes a promotion. Even better, the people that are the most averse to Leetcode cramming are often the ones that will see the greatest benefit, since they usually entered their current position with a single offer some years ago, and would be getting multiple offers in a very hot market today.
• sadfasf122 5y ago
  There are a lot of people in tech making a lot of money. Particularly at FANG/startups that have exited, they can "FIRE" after less than 10 years of working. I know many people in this category. During the pandemic many people also made some changes to their lives (bought a house, moved out the city, moonlight second job, started consulting remotely, etc.). Then you throw in the crazy rise in the markets (stocks, crypto, real estate) that many people have benefited from. Coupled with the popularity of FIRE mentality, rise of remote work, etc, it doesn't surprise me there are big changes coming.
  • oarabbus_ 5y ago
    > Particularly at FANG/startups that have exited, they can "FIRE" after less than 10 years of working. I know many people in this category. Less than 10? I would need to know more details on this before believing it at face value. Say a FANG person makes 300k/year on average over 8 years. That's 2.4 million pre-tax, something like 1.4M post-tax, and not enough for FIRE for most people. Maybe if someone was early in a startup that had a massive exit, sure. But that definitely doesn't describe the typical FIRE person/FAANG worker/etc.
    • sadfasf122 5y ago
      300K is on the lower end of salaries, esp. over 8 years. This is also just run-of-the-mill individual contributors that got in very late. Early employees, senior/leads/managers/directors/vp will make substantially more. You're also assuming they did nothing with their earnings over those 8 years - when in reality most are invested in the markets which have killed it over the last decade. I think people in tech are making a shitload more money then most realize.
      • oarabbus_ 5y ago
        Google's median salary is $240k. $300k isn't on the lower end it's above average (above median not mean).
• yibg 5y ago
  This is me. FIRE was one of the dreams / goals from many years ago. I'm technically able to retire now but I'm still working. A few reasons I think: 1) Sense of (in)security. There is the thought of, what if my investments lose a lot of value. What if costs suddenly go up. So the number keeps shifting up. Just another x dollars and I'll retire. 2) As I get older, the thought of retiring is also starting to lose appeal. Life's priorities change and preferences change. I wanted to be able to not work and travel the world. Now that sounds some what exhausting and unanchored. Personal situation also comes into play. Single vs those in relationships. Will the partner welcome the FIRE lifestyle etc. 3) There is a bit of how society will view a 30 something with no job and no plans to get a job.
  • sfblah 5y ago
    Another thing: Work is generally how people best have the opportunity to interact with people operating at a higher degree of sophistication, and it's often where you have a chance to work with people who are smart or motivated. If you stop working, you risk losing both those networks.
    • dragonwriter 5y ago
      > Work is generally how people best have the opportunity to interact with people operating at a higher degree of sophistication, and it's often where you have a chance to work with people who are smart or motivated. That's true of “work” viewed broadly, but not necessarily particularly of wage labor more than other things within the broad sense of “work”; certainly, I’ve found it to be no less true in political and charitable volunteer work than it is in wage labor.
    • yibg 5y ago
      Anecdotally I've observed older people around me who retire early for various reason have much earlier decline in both mental and physical health. Where as the ones that work until much older age tends to be healthier. And it does seem causal too, since the decline doesn't happen until years after retirement. For example, many of my aunts and uncles that retired around 55 - 60 are / were having many health issues some have experienced decline in mental sharpness. Where as my grand parents who worked on the farm until into the 70s were fairly healthy until towards the end of their lives.
• oarabbus_ 5y ago
  >In my circles, everyone from 25-35 is simultaneously preparing to FIRE and no-one that's 35+ has actually changed jobs despite being 'financially independent'. I think less than 1 in 10 people who talk about FIRE have some kind of realistic expectation about FIRE (i.e. you can't stay in the USA and also live like a king)
  • grensley 5y ago
    I always love the phrase "live like a king" like it's some unachievable amount of luxury, when historically it's: - Mental illness. - Uncomfortable amounts of stone. Feeling trapped by the system. - The constant paranoid fear of other people who kind of want you dead. - Shitting in pots. It's pretty easy to live like a king in the US, just be homeless.
    • hinkley 5y ago
      Never being able to do anything spontaneous, including eating food. Also in many eras quack doctors. Not just people wanting you dead, but close family members coming after you and your kids.
  • hinkley 5y ago
    When I realized how poorly a million dollars spread out over a lifetime I realized that odds were good I was going to keep working. And just how true that bit is about lottery tickets being “a tax on people who are bad at math.” Having a bunch of money means not having to have a mortgage. That’s pretty powerful by itself.
• taurath 5y ago
  I can’t get over how much the financial media drumbeats the idea that companies compete with better working conditions. They do not on any appreciable timescale - the best you get is a bigger signing bonus or one time benefit. At the top 1% they compete on perks, but the rest simply do not do anything about the fact they can’t hire, despite their complaints. It’s a particular dissonance that I think must come from MBA and business school cargo culting. The world would be such a nicer place if companies actually competed for labor instead of collectively kept all wages and benefits at their absolute minimum. This of course doesn’t happen, but to hear that it is somehow is extra infuriating.
  • hellotomyrars 5y ago
    One thing looks good on a balance sheet and the other requires thinking beyond the balance sheet. The vast majority of companies and middle/upper management are really only looking to the short term and their own individual resume. If the cows don't come home to roost (oops mixed the metaphor) for a few years and Jim has already moved from Company A to Company C by then, and failed upward three places on the corporate ladder, why should they care? Feels like most huge corporations do an executive shakeup every 5-8 years or so, and they shake some people out, but those people just get picked back up by someone else fresh off their own executive shuffle.
• mathattack 5y ago
  To your point, stated desire (filling out a survey) isn’t as strong as revealed preference (people switching). Stated preference is much noisier. My observation is there are a lot of people who have learned to hate their boss while remote. My SF friends may be surprised that wages are resetting to Chicago and Texas levels for new workers. That may slow down some of the movement.
• bit_logic 5y ago
  I've realized recently that what I really want isn't FIRE, but a kind of soft FIRE. Basically, if I had the money for FIRE, I would find (or stay at) a job that is comfortable, has great benefits and is low-medium stress. I could forget entirely about job hopping for higher pay (never have to leetcode study again), getting promoted (don't care about more responsibilities, managing, or going up a ladder), and mostly ignore office politics. I could just focus on doing good high quality work and not care about the rest. Basically, I want FIRE money to become immune to any kind of pressure or stress a company could put on an employee since I wouldn't care anymore about being laid off.
• sfblah 5y ago
  Everyone from 25-35 is preparing to FIRE?! I wonder, is that economically sustainable?
  • deevolution 5y ago
    I think shorter work weeks would be more realistic/desirable than full FIRE. However, I suspect most successful FIRE people must develop a or two hobby that inevitably generates money and keeps them busy. Otherwise most will just get bored out of their mind after 1-2 years.
• Schwolop 5y ago
  Just as one counter data point to your observation of your social circles: 2020 made me reconsider things. I also did the maths and concluded I was already the FI part of FIRE. I thought some more about what I wanted to do with my life, stayed several more months to give myself time to reflect on things, and then ultimately resigned with no intention to find another job. I will wrap up in two weeks time.
• timbo1642 5y ago
  I'd bet that at least 25% of people always want to leave. Many if not most people aren't happy with their jobs and that's why their customer service is horrible. Like you said, people want to, but that doesn't mean they will. Most people are broke as a joke, even many that make 6 figures. People working from home have become really comfortable with not working. I know several people that do very little at home compared to what they did at the office. One of my friends works at UCLA (not as a teacher and not in the hospital) and she misses large conference calls and does maybe 3 hours of work a day at most when she used to do 8. She brags about going hiking and doing other things instead of working. I understand this is not the case with most people, but almost no one works nearly as hard from home. They won't quit. Its all BS. If they are stupid enough to do so, they'll enjoy competing with hundreds if not thousands of people for a single job once people are forced off of unemployment.
• HeavyStorm 5y ago
  Completely agree. Surveyors seems oblivious to the fact that people daydream on order to support reality.