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Good for you. Just don't be surprised if you're the only one at the office when you get there, though. You might need to find human interaction outside work.

by brabel 5y ago

marcinzm 5y ago
Being the only one talking to the VPs and CEO in the office during lunch is probably going to be a great career boost. So don't be surprised when the people who go into the office get the nice promotions and you don't. Interestingly my whole team is very much in favor of being in the office a few days a week.
- xvector 5y ago
  Most promotions happen by moving jobs anyways, so eh.
  - marcinzm 5y ago
    And the best jobs go to personal referrals from those who are trusted. Which is easier if the VP you used to work with is vouching for you than if they don't know you.
- bootlooped 5y ago
  I think a lot of people on the 100% remote side of the debate are heavily underestimating the value of relationship building and team cohesion (for most people). You can't replace the frequent face to face social interactions, lunches, and drinks after work with a Zoom call. We are social animals and the more channels there are in an interaction (words, voice, body language, etc...) the richer that interaction is, and the more we get out of it. A likely counter to this will be "well I don't care about those things", ok, that's fine, but that is not true for everybody.
  - luffapi 5y ago
    I think the counter is to use your new found freedom wfh to get real non-commercial social interaction. With friends, family, neighbors… You’re at the mercy of your employer in more ways than one if you rely on them for such a core human need.
    - marcinzm 5y ago
      No one said your co-workers must or should be your only social connections. Simply that it helps if they are A social connection. You're still going to deal with your co-workers eight hours a day. Dealing with people who think of you as a friend is a lot easier than with people who don't.
      - luffapi 5y ago
        I want to deal with my co-workers as professionals, definitely not as friends. They are not my friends, I’m paid to work with them. Companies are more productive when you remove social drama, not less.
        marcinzm 5y ago
        There's always social drama because humans are social creatures and not machines. Hiding your head in the sand doesn't make it go away but merely means you're at it's whims with no influence on it. The difference is that if you're viewed as a friend other people first give you the benefit of the doubt since they assume you had good intentions. If you're not they don't and then things can escalate very quickly and not in your favor.
        luffapi 5y ago
        It sounds like you’ve worked under terrible management if you’re having these problems. On a properly run team people don’t squabble and politic. It is possible to work in a healthy manner, remote or otherwise. The drama you avoid when remote stems from not being forced to co-locate with individuals for a large swath of your waking hours. That is a breeding ground for unhealthy behavior.
  - spookthesunset 5y ago
    Agree with this assessment. I don’t care what anybody says, zoom and slack cannot replace sitting next to your teammmates.
  - beej71 5y ago
    Lots of different valid opinions, here. I've worked about half my career remote. In terms of team cohesion, socialization, and communication, I've seen remote outperform in-person and vice-versa.
  - metalcore 5y ago
    "Team cohesion" can work against you if you don't fit (which can be caused by a large variety of reasons). So maybe people estimate it very well, and calculate that less interaction is better.
  - ilaksh 5y ago
    Can't you have multiple Zoom calls with some one-on-one rather than a single Zoom call? Do you have good internet? If not, upgrading it might improve the video signal. What about something like Discord with voice setup so you can literally chat every five minutes if you want? Could you not use one of the VR programs on Oculus Quest that create virtual meeting rooms like Spatial? What about playing a game together once a week online? Could be something that requires a ton of cooperation like Rainbow Six. I'm not saying that real lunches or whatever are not great and a step up in bandwidth, but I feel like if you really take advantage of all of the possibilities then you can still have social opportunities online that can build real cohesion. Which I think you are not really trying.
- halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
  Because in most companies, you're having lunch with VPs and CEOs regularly? I've only worked at one company where I regularly saw anybody at the VP level and up on a regular basis. Unless you're working at a small company, this example just doesn't have any basis in reality.
  - marcinzm 5y ago
    I was poking fun at them saying no one will be in the office by pointing out that if you're literally the only non-manager in the office then you've got some advantages.
- irrational 5y ago
  Where do you work that the C-level people eat in the same place as the office workers? I’ve worked at a Fortune 500 company for 20 years and I’ve never so much as seen a C-level person, even though we all work on the same campus. They have separate parking garages, separate buildings, separate fitness facilities, separate eating facilities, etc.
- mech422 5y ago
  I know your comment was tongue-in-cheek, but some seem to believe this. From what I've seen, its a losing game. You can kiss all the ass you want, socialize whatever. But when there is an opening in companies like that, it seems like the boss's son-in-law/college crony/etc. always gets the job..
runawaybottle 5y ago
Right? Hey bro, I really don’t need to interact with you. You think I give a shit about your need for human interaction when you’re making me commute daily and pretend to fake work half the time at a desk. Fuck that, go to a bar, I don’t need friends.
mlang23 5y ago
Where I live, people are apparently not a chicken as where you live... Most of my coworkers are happy to go back to the office. I guess we have about 10% which would like to have full WHF. OTOH, I also dont care what the majority wants. What counts to me is what I want.
- _dibly 5y ago
  Yeah, something tells me the fact that your coworkers are more excited to be back in person doesn't have anything to do with how brave you all are. Maybe consider that are other reasons besides fear for why people prefer to work in an environment that is productive for them?
  - mlang23 5y ago
    So far, I only know: * Doesnt want to go back to work because of fear of infection * Wants to go back to work because she cant stand the kids and her husband anymore I havent heard any other stories so far. Maybe because I am not allowed to stay very long at the office...

Good for you. Just don't be surprised if you're the only one at the office when you get there, though. You might need to find human interaction outside work.

by brabel 5y ago

Good for you. Just don't be surprised if you're the only one at the office when you get there, though. You might need to find human interaction outside work.

marcinzm 5y ago

Being the only one talking to the VPs and CEO in the office during lunch is probably going to be a great career boost. So don't be surprised when the people who go into the office get the nice promotions and you don't. Interestingly my whole team is very much in favor of being in the office a few days a week.

xvector 5y ago
Most promotions happen by moving jobs anyways, so eh.
- marcinzm 5y ago
  And the best jobs go to personal referrals from those who are trusted. Which is easier if the VP you used to work with is vouching for you than if they don't know you.
bootlooped 5y ago
I think a lot of people on the 100% remote side of the debate are heavily underestimating the value of relationship building and team cohesion (for most people). You can't replace the frequent face to face social interactions, lunches, and drinks after work with a Zoom call. We are social animals and the more channels there are in an interaction (words, voice, body language, etc...) the richer that interaction is, and the more we get out of it. A likely counter to this will be "well I don't care about those things", ok, that's fine, but that is not true for everybody.
- luffapi 5y ago
  I think the counter is to use your new found freedom wfh to get real non-commercial social interaction. With friends, family, neighbors… You’re at the mercy of your employer in more ways than one if you rely on them for such a core human need.
  - marcinzm 5y ago
    No one said your co-workers must or should be your only social connections. Simply that it helps if they are A social connection. You're still going to deal with your co-workers eight hours a day. Dealing with people who think of you as a friend is a lot easier than with people who don't.
    - luffapi 5y ago
      I want to deal with my co-workers as professionals, definitely not as friends. They are not my friends, I’m paid to work with them. Companies are more productive when you remove social drama, not less.
      - marcinzm 5y ago
        There's always social drama because humans are social creatures and not machines. Hiding your head in the sand doesn't make it go away but merely means you're at it's whims with no influence on it. The difference is that if you're viewed as a friend other people first give you the benefit of the doubt since they assume you had good intentions. If you're not they don't and then things can escalate very quickly and not in your favor.
        luffapi 5y ago
        It sounds like you’ve worked under terrible management if you’re having these problems. On a properly run team people don’t squabble and politic. It is possible to work in a healthy manner, remote or otherwise. The drama you avoid when remote stems from not being forced to co-locate with individuals for a large swath of your waking hours. That is a breeding ground for unhealthy behavior.
- spookthesunset 5y ago
  Agree with this assessment. I don’t care what anybody says, zoom and slack cannot replace sitting next to your teammmates.
- beej71 5y ago
  Lots of different valid opinions, here. I've worked about half my career remote. In terms of team cohesion, socialization, and communication, I've seen remote outperform in-person and vice-versa.
- metalcore 5y ago
  "Team cohesion" can work against you if you don't fit (which can be caused by a large variety of reasons). So maybe people estimate it very well, and calculate that less interaction is better.
- ilaksh 5y ago
  Can't you have multiple Zoom calls with some one-on-one rather than a single Zoom call? Do you have good internet? If not, upgrading it might improve the video signal. What about something like Discord with voice setup so you can literally chat every five minutes if you want? Could you not use one of the VR programs on Oculus Quest that create virtual meeting rooms like Spatial? What about playing a game together once a week online? Could be something that requires a ton of cooperation like Rainbow Six. I'm not saying that real lunches or whatever are not great and a step up in bandwidth, but I feel like if you really take advantage of all of the possibilities then you can still have social opportunities online that can build real cohesion. Which I think you are not really trying.
halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
Because in most companies, you're having lunch with VPs and CEOs regularly? I've only worked at one company where I regularly saw anybody at the VP level and up on a regular basis. Unless you're working at a small company, this example just doesn't have any basis in reality.
- marcinzm 5y ago
  I was poking fun at them saying no one will be in the office by pointing out that if you're literally the only non-manager in the office then you've got some advantages.
irrational 5y ago
Where do you work that the C-level people eat in the same place as the office workers? I’ve worked at a Fortune 500 company for 20 years and I’ve never so much as seen a C-level person, even though we all work on the same campus. They have separate parking garages, separate buildings, separate fitness facilities, separate eating facilities, etc.
mech422 5y ago
I know your comment was tongue-in-cheek, but some seem to believe this. From what I've seen, its a losing game. You can kiss all the ass you want, socialize whatever. But when there is an opening in companies like that, it seems like the boss's son-in-law/college crony/etc. always gets the job..

runawaybottle 5y ago

Right? Hey bro, I really don’t need to interact with you. You think I give a shit about your need for human interaction when you’re making me commute daily and pretend to fake work half the time at a desk. Fuck that, go to a bar, I don’t need friends.

mlang23 5y ago

Where I live, people are apparently not a chicken as where you live... Most of my coworkers are happy to go back to the office. I guess we have about 10% which would like to have full WHF. OTOH, I also dont care what the majority wants. What counts to me is what I want.

_dibly 5y ago
Yeah, something tells me the fact that your coworkers are more excited to be back in person doesn't have anything to do with how brave you all are. Maybe consider that are other reasons besides fear for why people prefer to work in an environment that is productive for them?
- mlang23 5y ago
  So far, I only know: * Doesnt want to go back to work because of fear of infection * Wants to go back to work because she cant stand the kids and her husband anymore I havent heard any other stories so far. Maybe because I am not allowed to stay very long at the office...