8 ms·

>substituting titillations for profound organic satisfactions, cleverness for wisdom, and jagged surprises for beauty... ...And porn for relationships and inti

>substituting titillations for profound organic satisfactions, cleverness for wisdom, and jagged surprises for beauty... ...And porn for relationships and intimacy. If there's any modern ill that has exacerbated our inability to be comfortable with boredom (which is essentially inner loneliness) it's porn. It's an escape for loneliness and a terrible salve that leaves the intrinsic desires for intimacy and connection unfulfilled, akin to drinking salt water to cure thirst. A psychological pandemic in its own right, and you can't escape its ubiquity and influence.

vorpalhex 5y ago
Using porn to fix loneliness is like using a screwdriver as a hammer. It's not the intent of the tool, nor can you be upset with the screwdriver for being a poor hammer. The issue lies with the maker, not the tool.
- oblio 5y ago
  Many things are clearly harmful because they exploit weaknesses in the human psyche and the average person. There is a reason why obesity is high and rising, for example.
  - vorpalhex 5y ago
    You can take two views of humans. One is that they are to be managed - their food choices kept narrow to safe ones, dangerous things removed from their environment, and only safe and allowable futures enabled. Give them little locked down tablets that don't view porn, keep their food limited to acceptable options, don't let them read dangerous books. The other view is that humans are free agents, and to treat them as less than an agent is to fundamentally deny their identity as such. That means giving them information but letting them make "bad choices" or "the wrong choice". Freedom means being able to make bad choices.
    - mjmahone17 5y ago
      There’s a road between those views: people are sometimes free agents, but often do not actively choose their own path. So while we should allow people to make their own choices when they’re actively choosing them, we can do a lot to make the default choice one that is relatively beneficial over the long term. So things like requiring sugary drinks to carry a label that makes it obvious when a juice is as sugary as a soda. Or modifying sidewalks and parking to make walking or biking short distances more pleasurable than driving. Some of how you do this is by removing dangers from their environment, for instance by separating bike lanes from roads. And by allowing people to break from a habit cycle, for instance by establishing rules for gambling like enforcing periodic breaks in play to give people opportunities to reassess their actions.
    - oblio 5y ago
      > You can take two views of humans. Nothing in life is black or white. Life has many shades of gray (more than 50). > Freedom means being able to make bad choices. Yet here we are, where you're fined for drunk driving or for not wearing a seat belt. * * * There are no penalties for making bad choices that only affect <<you>>. But almost every choice you make, good or bad, affects someone else. For an example of a very personal and selfish choice that actually impacts <<others>>, if you don't wear a seat belt and die, your family will greatly mourn your loss, but they might also not be able to make it without your financial support and have to get help from social services or from others, which others have to pay for. You'll probably turn a small accident into a big accident, and if you're not the only person in the car, you'll traumatize those with you for life (again, maybe needing help which others will pay for!) plus you're probably going to total the car (which the owner will have to pay for). Humans aren't trees falling in a forest, trees that no one can hear falling. * * * Simple rule of thumb: if a restriction has been agreed to by diverse societies across the world, across tens and hundreds of countries, maybe it's there for a good reason and you're statistically not smarter than billions of people. I hope you are, but I'm willing to bet you aren't. Approach these things more humbly, please.
      - tech2 5y ago
        > There are no penalties for making bad choices that only affect <<you>>. But almost every choice you make, good or bad, affects someone else. Sure there are, easiest one to reach for is the consumption (or even ownership) of various drugs. Beyond that there's prostitution in many jurisdictions, and no doubt there are other "victimless" crimes still on the books (basically those formed around morality - and therefore moral harm - rather than an otherwise identifiable harm or loss). The problem with reaching for the "almost every choice you make affects someone" trope is that it's very easy to use it to justify any moral panic you choose. Sodomy (and by that I mean non-procreative sexual activity) is an excellent example whose laws were still active in some states up to 2014* (and maybe still). * https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/04/21/12-states-ban-sodomy-a-decade-after-court-ruling/7981025/ https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/04/21/12-stat...
Jeff_Brown 5y ago
> [porn is] akin to drinking salt water to cure thirst. That's an exceptionally beautiful analogy.
- RangerScience 5y ago
  There's a professor somewhere trying to prove that you can extend how long your pure water lasts by also drinking sea water; or something like that. Having trouble finding it right now.
- astrange 5y ago
  Hmm, but drinking water with electrolytes (including moderate salt) is more refreshing than filtered water.
bopbeepboop 5y ago
I think it’s a mistake to blame porn, rather than realizing porn is a self-medication for people targeted by institutional and pervasive misandry. I understand even after several generations of men being abused, people aren’t ready to admit man-hating is a real problem in modern US society. I would encourage people to view education statistics where men have trailed women for forty years — yet receive no institutional support, while female-focused programs are lauded by the press. Or sentencing statistics, where the gap between men and women for the same crime is three times the sentencing gap between whites and blacks — something most of us recognize as a problem. It’s the same thought process that blames video games for men staying home rather than assessing why they might rationally choose to isolate in a fictional world instead of embrace broader society.
tomp 5y ago
Meh. I've been watching porn since forever. My taste in porn has informed my real-life taste, and vice versa (in particular, I detest make-up / fakeness, both in porn and in real life). Still, I find real people infinitely more fulfilling and have always put effort into seeking real relationships, sexual and romantic. (I estimate porn is similar to gambling - some people's psychology makes them more susceptible to addiction of any kind.)
- serverholic 5y ago
  Yes I think what is not a problem for some can be a massive problem for others.
- dQw4w9WgXcQ 5y ago
  Meh. I've been going to bars since forever. I'm not like that guy over there who pounds a 12 pack every night and has no standards for what he funnels down his gullet. Despite my habitual usage and inability to refrain from the activity for any extended period of time, I estimate his psychology must make him the addict. For me it's a matter of refinement and my consciously-engaged frontal-lobe awareness of the fine hops and spirits that elevates me to a connoisseur of the boozy arts.
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    If you hadn't inserted "inability to refrain" out of nowhere, you could have been describing a perfectly ordinary (though pretentious) non-alcoholic. And you inserted that based on absolutely nothing, so good work.
robben1234 5y ago
Porn only "fixes" loneliness if you have the feeling unconditionally linked to sex, which in a way is quite sad.
zemvpferreira 5y ago
I'm sorry if that's been your experience but this generalisation is a bit much. I probably watch about as much porn as I do Netflix - around 30 minutes per day on average. I enjoy it, it's very relaxing and pleasureful. I'm in a committed long-term relationship of 3 years and have had the same habits through other 3 relationships of about the same length. They've all had a full sex life and I enjoy both separately. I'm sure many people have the same experience.
- syops 5y ago
  There's been a bit of research into the destructive aspects of porn watching. Porn has normalized a number of sexual behaviors that were not common in the past. This is especially so for behaviors that are degrading to the woman. What's interesting about your comment though is that you accuse OP of over generalization whilst using your singular anecdotal experience in what I think can best be described as a example of under generalization.
  - pault 5y ago
    To be fair, some people of all genders get their kicks from being sexually dominated. The issue is knowing where the other person’s limits are and having good communication. This becomes a problem when people find discussing their sexual preferences embarrassing, even with their partners. My sex life improved greatly when I started asking my partners if they have any fantasies and exploring them together. Sometimes porn can help people discover things that they otherwise would have been too shy to bring up. However, If you’re watching porn five times per day and find yourself less and less stimulated by IRL sex, you need a detox.
    - syops 5y ago
      Of course there are such people. I submit though that the number of women who consent to anal and like it is much less than the number who consent and don't like it. The same for various other sex acts. I believe the research supports my position.
rantwasp 5y ago
yeah porn is a pandemic, NOT. here is a secret: we are hardwired to reproduce. you may think you have a choice but you are wired to fsck everything that has even a remote chance of resulting into you passing your genes forward. porn is a way to release some of the tension that comes with this wiring. nothing more, nothing less.
r0b05 5y ago
While many functioning porn users will dismiss your comment as nonsense, I believe it really is a massive problem in society. Porn in its current iteration, is similar to social media in that it literally programs your brain. We program computers but are ignorant to the fact that computers can program our behaviour if we are not careful. Yes, it is a poor substitute for intimacy but it also creates dangerous thought patterns and belief systems. These so called kinks have little to do with healthy sexual biological functioning. The perversions can become so ingrained that one will see it in real life instead of what is actually there. Remember, that a human being is programmed through our beliefs and habits, which are formed through repetitions. So be extremely careful of what you consume in this age of the Internet.
- beebeepka 5y ago
  Preaching posts like yours are more dangerous than whatever excess porn consumption may do to people's brains.
  - r0b05 5y ago
    I don't expect everyone to get it but if my insight helps a few people then it's worth sharing.
    - syops 5y ago
      I suspect that many of the people responding haven't read any research into the topic.
    - haswell 5y ago
      What insight, specifically? You make big claims with no citation, and when asked for more info, you dismiss those questions. If you’re interested in helping others understand the insights you claim to have, bring some details to the table! I’m pretty curious about the topic, and this is an inquisitive community in general. Unfortunately, the way you’ve presented your position is not helpful, especially for a group that tends to demand scientific proof or at least a well formed hypothesis.
akomtu 5y ago
Porn is the fastfood of relationships. The proper food is just out of reach for most of the people.
rkk3 5y ago
> porn for relationships and intimacy Never heard of anyone giving up dating or intimate relationships for Porn. Is this a thing?
candu 5y ago
If you think pornography is somehow uniquely modern...well, you're ignoring a millennia-long history of erotic depictions there, on top of presenting absolutely no evidence to support your rather Puritanical claims.

vorpalhex 5y ago

Using porn to fix loneliness is like using a screwdriver as a hammer. It's not the intent of the tool, nor can you be upset with the screwdriver for being a poor hammer. The issue lies with the maker, not the tool.

oblio 5y ago
Many things are clearly harmful because they exploit weaknesses in the human psyche and the average person. There is a reason why obesity is high and rising, for example.
- vorpalhex 5y ago
  You can take two views of humans. One is that they are to be managed - their food choices kept narrow to safe ones, dangerous things removed from their environment, and only safe and allowable futures enabled. Give them little locked down tablets that don't view porn, keep their food limited to acceptable options, don't let them read dangerous books. The other view is that humans are free agents, and to treat them as less than an agent is to fundamentally deny their identity as such. That means giving them information but letting them make "bad choices" or "the wrong choice". Freedom means being able to make bad choices.
  - mjmahone17 5y ago
    There’s a road between those views: people are sometimes free agents, but often do not actively choose their own path. So while we should allow people to make their own choices when they’re actively choosing them, we can do a lot to make the default choice one that is relatively beneficial over the long term. So things like requiring sugary drinks to carry a label that makes it obvious when a juice is as sugary as a soda. Or modifying sidewalks and parking to make walking or biking short distances more pleasurable than driving. Some of how you do this is by removing dangers from their environment, for instance by separating bike lanes from roads. And by allowing people to break from a habit cycle, for instance by establishing rules for gambling like enforcing periodic breaks in play to give people opportunities to reassess their actions.
  - oblio 5y ago
    > You can take two views of humans. Nothing in life is black or white. Life has many shades of gray (more than 50). > Freedom means being able to make bad choices. Yet here we are, where you're fined for drunk driving or for not wearing a seat belt. * * * There are no penalties for making bad choices that only affect <<you>>. But almost every choice you make, good or bad, affects someone else. For an example of a very personal and selfish choice that actually impacts <<others>>, if you don't wear a seat belt and die, your family will greatly mourn your loss, but they might also not be able to make it without your financial support and have to get help from social services or from others, which others have to pay for. You'll probably turn a small accident into a big accident, and if you're not the only person in the car, you'll traumatize those with you for life (again, maybe needing help which others will pay for!) plus you're probably going to total the car (which the owner will have to pay for). Humans aren't trees falling in a forest, trees that no one can hear falling. * * * Simple rule of thumb: if a restriction has been agreed to by diverse societies across the world, across tens and hundreds of countries, maybe it's there for a good reason and you're statistically not smarter than billions of people. I hope you are, but I'm willing to bet you aren't. Approach these things more humbly, please.
    - tech2 5y ago
      > There are no penalties for making bad choices that only affect <<you>>. But almost every choice you make, good or bad, affects someone else. Sure there are, easiest one to reach for is the consumption (or even ownership) of various drugs. Beyond that there's prostitution in many jurisdictions, and no doubt there are other "victimless" crimes still on the books (basically those formed around morality - and therefore moral harm - rather than an otherwise identifiable harm or loss). The problem with reaching for the "almost every choice you make affects someone" trope is that it's very easy to use it to justify any moral panic you choose. Sodomy (and by that I mean non-procreative sexual activity) is an excellent example whose laws were still active in some states up to 2014* (and maybe still). * https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/04/21/12-states-ban-sodomy-a-decade-after-court-ruling/7981025/ https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/04/21/12-stat...

Jeff_Brown 5y ago

> [porn is] akin to drinking salt water to cure thirst. That's an exceptionally beautiful analogy.

RangerScience 5y ago
There's a professor somewhere trying to prove that you can extend how long your pure water lasts by also drinking sea water; or something like that. Having trouble finding it right now.
astrange 5y ago
Hmm, but drinking water with electrolytes (including moderate salt) is more refreshing than filtered water.

bopbeepboop 5y ago

I think it’s a mistake to blame porn, rather than realizing porn is a self-medication for people targeted by institutional and pervasive misandry. I understand even after several generations of men being abused, people aren’t ready to admit man-hating is a real problem in modern US society. I would encourage people to view education statistics where men have trailed women for forty years — yet receive no institutional support, while female-focused programs are lauded by the press. Or sentencing statistics, where the gap between men and women for the same crime is three times the sentencing gap between whites and blacks — something most of us recognize as a problem. It’s the same thought process that blames video games for men staying home rather than assessing why they might rationally choose to isolate in a fictional world instead of embrace broader society.

tomp 5y ago

Meh. I've been watching porn since forever. My taste in porn has informed my real-life taste, and vice versa (in particular, I detest make-up / fakeness, both in porn and in real life). Still, I find real people infinitely more fulfilling and have always put effort into seeking real relationships, sexual and romantic. (I estimate porn is similar to gambling - some people's psychology makes them more susceptible to addiction of any kind.)

serverholic 5y ago
Yes I think what is not a problem for some can be a massive problem for others.
dQw4w9WgXcQ 5y ago
Meh. I've been going to bars since forever. I'm not like that guy over there who pounds a 12 pack every night and has no standards for what he funnels down his gullet. Despite my habitual usage and inability to refrain from the activity for any extended period of time, I estimate his psychology must make him the addict. For me it's a matter of refinement and my consciously-engaged frontal-lobe awareness of the fine hops and spirits that elevates me to a connoisseur of the boozy arts.
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  If you hadn't inserted "inability to refrain" out of nowhere, you could have been describing a perfectly ordinary (though pretentious) non-alcoholic. And you inserted that based on absolutely nothing, so good work.

robben1234 5y ago

Porn only "fixes" loneliness if you have the feeling unconditionally linked to sex, which in a way is quite sad.

zemvpferreira 5y ago

I'm sorry if that's been your experience but this generalisation is a bit much. I probably watch about as much porn as I do Netflix - around 30 minutes per day on average. I enjoy it, it's very relaxing and pleasureful. I'm in a committed long-term relationship of 3 years and have had the same habits through other 3 relationships of about the same length. They've all had a full sex life and I enjoy both separately. I'm sure many people have the same experience.

syops 5y ago
There's been a bit of research into the destructive aspects of porn watching. Porn has normalized a number of sexual behaviors that were not common in the past. This is especially so for behaviors that are degrading to the woman. What's interesting about your comment though is that you accuse OP of over generalization whilst using your singular anecdotal experience in what I think can best be described as a example of under generalization.
- pault 5y ago
  To be fair, some people of all genders get their kicks from being sexually dominated. The issue is knowing where the other person’s limits are and having good communication. This becomes a problem when people find discussing their sexual preferences embarrassing, even with their partners. My sex life improved greatly when I started asking my partners if they have any fantasies and exploring them together. Sometimes porn can help people discover things that they otherwise would have been too shy to bring up. However, If you’re watching porn five times per day and find yourself less and less stimulated by IRL sex, you need a detox.
  - syops 5y ago
    Of course there are such people. I submit though that the number of women who consent to anal and like it is much less than the number who consent and don't like it. The same for various other sex acts. I believe the research supports my position.

rantwasp 5y ago

yeah porn is a pandemic, NOT. here is a secret: we are hardwired to reproduce. you may think you have a choice but you are wired to fsck everything that has even a remote chance of resulting into you passing your genes forward. porn is a way to release some of the tension that comes with this wiring. nothing more, nothing less.

r0b05 5y ago

While many functioning porn users will dismiss your comment as nonsense, I believe it really is a massive problem in society. Porn in its current iteration, is similar to social media in that it literally programs your brain. We program computers but are ignorant to the fact that computers can program our behaviour if we are not careful. Yes, it is a poor substitute for intimacy but it also creates dangerous thought patterns and belief systems. These so called kinks have little to do with healthy sexual biological functioning. The perversions can become so ingrained that one will see it in real life instead of what is actually there. Remember, that a human being is programmed through our beliefs and habits, which are formed through repetitions. So be extremely careful of what you consume in this age of the Internet.

beebeepka 5y ago
Preaching posts like yours are more dangerous than whatever excess porn consumption may do to people's brains.
- r0b05 5y ago
  I don't expect everyone to get it but if my insight helps a few people then it's worth sharing.
  - syops 5y ago
    I suspect that many of the people responding haven't read any research into the topic.
  - haswell 5y ago
    What insight, specifically? You make big claims with no citation, and when asked for more info, you dismiss those questions. If you’re interested in helping others understand the insights you claim to have, bring some details to the table! I’m pretty curious about the topic, and this is an inquisitive community in general. Unfortunately, the way you’ve presented your position is not helpful, especially for a group that tends to demand scientific proof or at least a well formed hypothesis.

akomtu 5y ago

Porn is the fastfood of relationships. The proper food is just out of reach for most of the people.

rkk3 5y ago

> porn for relationships and intimacy Never heard of anyone giving up dating or intimate relationships for Porn. Is this a thing?

candu 5y ago

If you think pornography is somehow uniquely modern...well, you're ignoring a millennia-long history of erotic depictions there, on top of presenting absolutely no evidence to support your rather Puritanical claims.