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Doing something is better than doing nothing for most people: study (2014)

• SuchAnonMuchWow 5y ago
  Not related to the content of the article, but am I the only one bothered with the way the article spell ranges: "six to 15 minutes", "Twelve of 18 men", "six of 24 females" ...
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  • temp8964 5y ago
    It is in the APA style guide: "In addition to using words to express numbers below 10, use words to also express: Numbers beginning a sentence, title, or text heading" https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/research_and_citation/apa6_style/apa_formatting_and_style_guide/apa_numbers.html https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/research_and_citation/apa6_style/...
    • sp332 5y ago
      That is in tension with using numerals for "Numbers that represent statistical or mathematical functions, fractional or decimal quantities, percentages, ratios..." And the tie-breaker is below: If you’re unsure which modifier to write and which to express numerically, try it both ways. Be sure the way you express the numbers is in the clearest way possible.
  • Jiocus 5y ago
    Yes but at least they are consistent with the pattern word of numeral, which is often a good rule to use if not employing a specific styleguide. For example, using the APA guide[1] for numbers (thanks @OJFord for pointing out my error): “Six to 15”, “12 of 18”, Six of 24”. Edit: As @temp8964 correctly pointed out, there are situations where words are recommended[2]. – [1]: https://apastyle.apa.org/ https://apastyle.apa.org/ [2]: https://apastyle.apa.org/style-grammar-guidelines/numbers/words https://apastyle.apa.org/style-grammar-guidelines/numbers/wo...
    • OJFord 5y ago
      Don't you have that backwards? I'm not familiar with APA style guide but I was taught at school (UK) to use words below ten (at least, and to be consistent, i.e. saying 'ten' just then is fine as long as I don't now start saying '10' or '11') - I'd be surprised if APA advocated exactly the opposite, based on your example.
      • Jiocus 5y ago
        Hah! You're right, of course. My mind must have been elsewhere when writing the example, considering that I was literally reading the APA guide and thinking of the rule you laid out while at it.
    • mattkrause 5y ago
      Switching within a phrase, like “six to 15”, strikes me as pointless hobgobblin-ey consistency, especially when the numbers are close to the cutoff. I find it so much more jarring than either “six to fifteen” or “6–15.”
• clircle 5y ago
  I think the headline 'doing something is better than doing nothing' is a bit misleading. Based on my reading on the article, maybe it should be 'people would rather do something than not' because the researchers studied preferences, not utilities.
• greyface- 5y ago
  The paper: https://wjh-www.harvard.edu/~dtg/WILSON%20ET%20AL%202014.pdf https://wjh-www.harvard.edu/~dtg/WILSON%20ET%20AL%202014.pdf
• forgotmypw17 5y ago
  I think the headline is misleading. This study is about people's preferences and comfort, not what's "better" for them. (In my personal experience, breaking through the discomfort of "doing nothing" has been subjectively better and rewarding.)
• brianjlogan 5y ago
  Curious if the study would have the same results today with the prevalence of Mindfulness meditation. Perhaps it's my predisposition since I've googled for it. But I see advertisements for Calm and Headspace. I think even on TV. I see "Mindfulness" centers, physical places to take classes and meditate. A whole commercial market has taken hold of this new interest of fighting back the confusion of modern life. My trouble with advertising these aids, is that perhaps people will be attached to them. For me the main thing that makes me enjoy meditation is that no matter what if I have the discipline I can do it. If I lose my limbs, if I have constant pain, if I'm unhappy, if I lose my family. All the awfulness of life can at the very least while I'm living not take away my inner peace. I can feel and observe the river of life without being swept away by it. I have a "comfortable" sense of security in my existence. Coming back to the article. Having been through those experiences I would very much choose to be alone with my thoughts. I am literally trying to find time every day. Especially over electric shock haha.
  • ChrisLTD 5y ago
    As someone that has regularly meditated for years now, I still wouldn’t say sitting alone with nothing to do is an enjoyable experience. You can turn it into an opportunity for meditation or other types of deep thinking, but that’s more like “work” than anything else.
    • Jeff_Brown 5y ago
      Meditation can occupy a unique space between work and play. One of the goals of meditation can be an experience beyond, or at least parallel to, goal-awareness. I say "can be" because there are multiple kinds of meditation. A famous meditation researcher whose name I've forgotten lists three: focused, wandering, and empathic. (I'm not sure those are the canonical terms for them.) Wandering is my favorite.
    • brianjlogan 5y ago
      Yeah that "enjoyable" state is kind of difficult to describe. My experience may be different than yours but for me it's an emptiness of being in tranquility with the chaos of my own thoughts. Only with deliberate practice. To me "work" does not mean suffering but directed concentration and discipline. If I accept my mistakes and imperfectness of that "work" the process to me is "enjoyable". But the "joy" is difficult here because it's not really that exact emotion.
• jonplackett 5y ago
  This reminds me of a clip of Louis CK talking about losing the ability to just sit with your own thoughts and be really sad. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HbYScltf1c&t=53s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HbYScltf1c&t=53s Shame he turned out to be a sexual deviant because he said some interesting things.
  • hedberg10 5y ago
    "One bad thought ruins entirety of humans other thoughts, they are now null and void. News at eleven!"
    • jonplackett 5y ago
      What’s that quote from?
      • arthurcolle 5y ago
        GP is making a statement in jest
      • alisonkisk 5y ago
        Poor use of sarcasm (as most sarcasm is).
        • anonomousename 5y ago
          How come? I'd argue that he made a decent point - one bad action of an individual doesn't invalidate everything else they've done. Using sarcasm can turn a bland, potentially combative statement like that into a joke.
    • watwut 5y ago
      Tho, he did nor had one bad thought. Issue is, he had multiple bad actions that actually harmed people. And he had worldview that rationalized those actions as something ok to do.
  • reidjs 5y ago
• hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
  "All men's miseries derive from not being able to sit in a quiet room alone." - Blaise Pascal https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/blaise_pascal_133380 https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/blaise_pascal_133380
  • lurkmurk 5y ago
    "There are two types of quotable quotes, those that deal in absolutes, and those that divide people into two groups."
  • gverrilla 5y ago
    is that even a real quote? couldn't find a source in a google, except for quoting sites without sources. doesn't sound like the pascal I've read on the Pensées at all, but maybe I'm wrong I know for sure Shakespeare and Einstein have a lot of fake quotes atributed to them, and also Chaplin
    • yesenadam 5y ago
      It's adapted from Pensées II.139, which begins: 139. Diversion.--When I have occasionally set myself to consider the different distractions of men, the pains and perils to which they expose themselves at court or in war, whence arise so many quarrels, passions, bold and often bad ventures, etc., I have discovered that all the unhappiness of men arises from one single fact, that they cannot stay quietly in their own chamber. A man who has enough to live on, if he knew how to stay with pleasure at home, would not leave it to go to sea or to besiege a town. A commission in the army would not be bought so dearly, but that it is found insufferable not to budge from the town; and men only seek conversation and entering games, because they cannot remain with pleasure at home. http://www.leaderu.com/cyber/books/pensees/pensees-SECTION-2.html http://www.leaderu.com/cyber/books/pensees/pensees-SECTION-2...
• ______- 5y ago
  > The investigation found that most would rather be doing something – possibly even hurting themselves – than doing nothing or sitting alone with their thoughts This brings up an old saying I learned years ago: If you're going to do nothing, don't do it here Meditation is being active doing nothing. It's paradoxical, just like Zen koans are paradoxical. I don't meditate in the cross legged position however, and drift in and out of meditation doing everyday humdrum things like waiting for a bus to arrive, or my favorite: pretending to sleep, so I can actually fall asleep. Each preamble before sleep is itself meditation, and we can find ourselves meditating doing humdrum things like washing the dishes. You don't need to go to a monastery or wellness center to meditate. We are natural meditators!
  • Jeff_Brown 5y ago
    Switching on a podcast comes even more naturally to me. It's like I've outsourced a big fraction of my thinking. It's simultaneously delicious and repulsive.
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• gwgundersen 5y ago
  Ever since reading Bertrand Russell's "The Conquest of Happiness", I've thought a lot about the importance of being able to sit inside my own head. One quote that I wrote down: > A life too full of excitement is an exhausting life, in which continually stronger stimuli are needed to give the thrill that has come to be thought an essential part of pleasure. A person accustomed to too much excitement is like a person with a morbid craving for pepper, who comes at last to be unable even to taste a quantity of pepper which would cause anyone else to choke. There is an element of boredom which is inseparable from the avoidance of too much excitement, and too much excitement not only undermines the health, but dulls the palate for every kind of pleasure, substituting titillations for profound organic satisfactions, cleverness for wisdom, and jagged surprises for beauty... A certain power of enduring boredom is therefore essential to a happy life, and is one of the things that ought to be taught to the young.
  • dQw4w9WgXcQ 5y ago
    >substituting titillations for profound organic satisfactions, cleverness for wisdom, and jagged surprises for beauty... ...And porn for relationships and intimacy. If there's any modern ill that has exacerbated our inability to be comfortable with boredom (which is essentially inner loneliness) it's porn. It's an escape for loneliness and a terrible salve that leaves the intrinsic desires for intimacy and connection unfulfilled, akin to drinking salt water to cure thirst. A psychological pandemic in its own right, and you can't escape its ubiquity and influence.
    • vorpalhex 5y ago
      Using porn to fix loneliness is like using a screwdriver as a hammer. It's not the intent of the tool, nor can you be upset with the screwdriver for being a poor hammer. The issue lies with the maker, not the tool.
      • oblio 5y ago
        Many things are clearly harmful because they exploit weaknesses in the human psyche and the average person. There is a reason why obesity is high and rising, for example.
• yboris 5y ago
  The principal author of this paper, Timothy D. Wilson has done some awesome research. I can highly recommend his book Strangers to Ourselves: Discovering the Adaptive Unconscious. I found it it be very illuminating and even useful for understanding others and myself better. https://www.amazon.com/Strangers-to-Ourselves-audiobook/dp/B006BCJWZK/ref=sr_1_1 https://www.amazon.com/Strangers-to-Ourselves-audiobook/dp/B...
• elric 5y ago
  Our society isn't exactly set up for "doing nothing", either. If you're just sitting somewhere without doing anything, you might be loitering, you'll start getting funny looks if this goes on for extended periods of time. On the other hand, if you're sitting somewhere and you're smoking, or reading, none of that seems to happen. I wonder if we're uncomfortable with other people's ability to do nothing.
  • treis 5y ago
    >“All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.” From a philosopher writing in the 1600s. I don't think it's an issue with any particular society. It just seems part of human nature to be inable to sit and do nothing for a significant period of time.
    • MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
      I for one would love to be a bohemian layabout all day doing nothing. Like a cat staring out a window listlessly wasting the clock.
      • hypertele-Xii 5y ago
        There's a reason humans have conquered the world and cats are our pets.
        • tfigueroa 5y ago
          In their wisdom, they decided to leave the conquest to these curious bipeds, so they could relax in the sun and watch time drift by…
          • MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
            This is why egyptians worshipped cats. They knew that at the end of the day, the won and ourselves now have to work hard.
• bravura 5y ago
  Isn't this just confirmation bias? The sort of journalist who would publish work on this sort of scientist's publications, they both seem like the types of people who rather publish than do nothing.
• ambivalents 5y ago
  A good illustration of this is riding the NYC subway. I think most people would choose a slower-moving local line if it shows up before the more efficient express line, even if the express would get you to your destination sooner.
  • elzbardico 5y ago
    I used to do that with bus lines, provided I could get a seat. Between 20 mins standing + 20 mins crowded fast bus line (standing) and 60 minutes comfortably seated with no wait, I always choose the later. But, I may be the exception, as I find riding the bus a pleasurable activity.
• Jeff_Brown 5y ago
  The funniest part: "[The researchers] then asked, “Would they rather do an unpleasant activity than no activity at all?” ... Participants were given the same circumstances as most of the previous studies, with the added option of also administering a mild electric shock to themselves by pressing a button. Twelve of 18 men in the study gave themselves at least one electric shock during the study’s 15-minute “thinking” period. By comparison, six of 24 females shocked themselves. All of these participants had received a sample of the shock and reported that they would pay to avoid being shocked again."
  • MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
    It's really fascinating to me as well that a lot of men would be that way. I understand "why" but for myself personally I can entertain my own thoughts alone for an extended period time. I've always been that way since I was young so the thought of shocking yourself because you're bored with your own thoughts still is an odd concept to me. How can you despise your own inner monologue that much? Is introspection really that unmasculine of a task to some men? Many people to me seem so focused on the present and engaging without considering possible outcomes before acting. It's one facet of humanity I still don't understand outside of justifying that it's another irrational thing humans do for the sake of irrationality.
    • Klinky 5y ago
      Novelty. How often are you part of a study where you get to shock yourself? It makes a good story, and this kind of makes the study less useful. The "shock value" of shocking oneself is its own entertainment. Would not be surprised if some of the people who didn't shock themselves were spending the time trying to amp themselves up to take the shock, but just never did.
      • tonyedgecombe 5y ago
        All the participants had received a "sample" shock and decided they didn't like it. They already had their good story.
• retskrad 5y ago
  I'm 27 years old and I don't have much purpose in life. am I'm kind of becoming desperate, to be honest. I have always thought about becoming a programmer but I don't know where to start. What programming language do you learn first? What languages and skills do you need to learn to become hire-able by a company?
  • mikewarot 5y ago
    It doesn't really matter what you learn, as long as you actually start, and keep up with it.
    • swagasaurus-rex 5y ago
      Doing something is better than doing nothing
  • rossdavidh 5y ago
    1) what an odd place to ask this question 2) this is not a bad first place: https://www.w3schools.com/ https://www.w3schools.com/
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  • bananicorn 5y ago
    It's never too late to start. At the beginning you should really focus on trying some things that keep your attention. (For me that was programming games - incredibly crufty ones, but seeing thing move on my screen got me really excited and got me to understand) Personally, that was javascript for me - mostly because you can do stuff with it in any browser you want. Lua[0] is also a great language for beginners, and I'm still using it for game development[1] and general scripting/fun stuff. I just don't want to turn this into a hella long comment, so I'll wrap it up; but I could talk about the first steps you could take for hours :) If you want to ask me anything on how to get started, just shoot me a mail under info@(my username here).com I'd be super happy to help :) [0]https://www.lua.org/ https://www.lua.org/ [1]https://love2d.org/ https://love2d.org/
• grouphugs 5y ago
  nope
• pessimizer 5y ago
  This study doesn't make much sense. If the question is whether people would rather study and interact with the world or just ruminate and narcissisticly contemplate their own thoughts, the answer should be obvious, unless you've met anyone who enjoys the idea of being buried alive. I bet fitness people would be fine with this short-term solitary confinement, because they're at least entertained by their own bodies.
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  • elliekelly 5y ago
    Do you find meditation “narcissistic”?
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• the_only_law 5y ago
  Now if only I could bring myself to actually do something.
• sfgweilr4f 5y ago
  Maybe. But I've also just gone deep into what most people would call a forest and just sit there for more than 2 hours. No music. No notebook. Nothing to read. Just sit there. Close your eyes. Sit. Does that qualify as doing nothing? Or is that classed as some kind of meditation?
  • rossdavidh 5y ago
    I think what that means is, most people don't (and wouldn't want to) do something that you choose to do, at least occasionally. I also meditate, on occasion. But I note that many methods of meditation involve giving you something to do (slow walking meditation, for example), perhaps precisely for this reason?
• johnchristopher 5y ago
  What does it mean regarding depression and laying in bed all day doing nothing “with ease” ?
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• paulcarroty 5y ago
  I treat "doing nothing" as failure. It's normal to be bored, confused, tired sometimes, but you should have a goal & move forward, always.
  • paulcole 5y ago
    I treat doing nothing as success. I opted out of the working world for 3 years in my 20s (lived cheaply off savings) and did little more than watch movies/tv, read, and walk/exercise. Had no goals and no ambitions and loved every moment of it.
  • nickkell 5y ago
    What if your goal is to do nothing?
• DangitBobby 5y ago
  It is supremely uncomfortable inside some people's heads.
  • fighterpilot 5y ago
    More generally, it is supremely uncomfortable inside some people's bodies. I don't just mean someone with physical pain. Anxiety, depression and other disorders are a whole-body experience.
    • carapace 5y ago
      I believe this is a wildly underappreciated fact: Most folks are miserable, and most of us don't realize it due to a kind of "fish don't notice water" effect. > Under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. We have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. We have never seen a totally sane human being. ~Robert Anton Wilson
• kilodeca 5y ago
  Is that even a question?
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• swayvil 5y ago
  If you have a habit and you cease that constant, habitual action. It looks a bit like doing and and it also looks a bit like not-doing. And habits are often completely invisible. So that's something to consider.
• failwhaleshark 5y ago
  Idleness is rust.
• dang 5y ago
  https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/03/22/stand-there/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/03/22/stand-there/
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• asimjalis 5y ago
  Several people mentioned meditation. Are there good books on how to meditate that you can recommend?
  • AgentMatt 5y ago
    I can recommend "The Mind Illuminated" by Culadasa. It presents a path for meditation in ten stages, describing in simple and clear language goals and techniques for each. There are both directly actionable advice for many different circumstances, challenges, etc., and more theoretical / philosophical discussions for context and understanding. I have followed the system described in the book for about 15 months, and think it had a positive impact on my life and my well-being in general.