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> But then it quickly mention, without any further analysis, that both their GDP actually grew at a similar pace. So the entire EU economy grew at the same spee
by Hermel 5y ago
> But then it quickly mention, without any further analysis, that both their GDP actually grew at a similar pace. So the entire EU economy grew at the same speed than the US one but not its 500 bigger companies. So all else being equals it means that the smaller US companies grew more slowly and that this article is simply mesuring increasing corporate inequalities (if there is such a thing).
No. About half of the European economy is the state. So having similar GDP growth while the big US companies grew faster could also just mean that the economic growth in Europe was driven by state activities (education, health care, etc.). You cannot conclude anything regarding the growth of small companies.
- j_wtf_all_taken 5y agoIsn't it nice that a large part of the European economy consists of stuff helping people (the "state activities" you mention) vs. the large part of the US economy that consists of hurting people?
- ChuckNorris89 5y agoUS creating top paying tech jobs for the working class and not taxing them to death so they can grow into a flourishing middles class is also helping people. >large part of the US economy that consists of hurting people Source? If you're talking about the defense sector then you should also know that the UK and France were several years in a row number 2 and 3 worldwide in arms sales, including to the Saudi regime.
- tovej 5y agoUS upward social mobility is among the worst in the world. US workers are stuck in a rat race that simply doesn't exist to the same extent in Europe.
- ChuckNorris89 5y agoI beg to differ. The fact is hard working immigrants in the US have a much higher chance of becoming successful than in Europe. Pretty much all the US tech companies are now run by immigrants of minority backgrounds while, for example, Eastern European and Turkish immigrants in Germany are still regarded as cleaners and kebab salesmen, with the only notable exception they can name being the Turkish CEO of BionTech.
- varjag 5y agoEven the top tier of decision making political class in the USA has many immigrants. In Europe it's still largely token presence faces in auxiliary positions.
- j_wtf_all_taken 5y agoYeah the Trump government was really really diverse, and so are the boards of the large companies.
- varjag 5y agoSebastian Gorka is an immigrant, from the EU no less. So are the many notorious alt-right figures that are baked in your consciousness as ur-American.
- j_wtf_all_taken 5y agoOk yeah the Nazis building your moon rockets were also immigrants, true ;-)
- varjag 5y agoI'm an Eastern European immigrant in Norway, stuff your attitude where it makes you warm.
- 5y ago
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago> US upward social mobility is among the worst in the world This is incorrect. American social mobility is low. But not widely so, and certainly not consistently lowest among rich countries. (It is consistently among the lowest.) If one takes "the extent to which son’s [sic] earnings levels reflect those of their fathers," Britain and Italy are worse than America while France is quite close [1]. Similarly, "after adjusting for the country-specific distribution of socio-economic status, the United States, France and Belgium are countries where parental background has the greatest influence on student achievement." [1] http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.411.8463&rep=rep1&type=pdf http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.411... Figure 2, page 9
- tovej 5y agoSo US social mobility is only slightly better (insignificantly) than the two worst countries in Europe. I think that article rather supports my claim. Italy is also rather a troublesome example, because northern and southern Italy are vastly different. Regional differences account for much of the inequality and the persistence of it there. Looking at the mean in Europe vs the US there is no contest. Other metrics in the same paper indicate that for factors that impact long term social stability, like schooling, the US is the worst. It's possible that, since the US is such a big territory, regional differences are distorted. But I couldn't find a better source myself, with a quick search.
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago> US social mobility is only slightly better (insignificantly) than the two worst countries in Europe. I think that article rather supports my claim. Compared with the cohort of European countries, America fairs poorly (though not excessively so). The original claim, however, was that it fares "among the worst in the world." This is incorrect; it's roughly middle of the pack [1][2]. On the measure of the "number of generations it would take...those born to...the bottom 10% of the income distribution...to approach the mean in their society," America ties with Ireland, Portugal, Italy, the U.K., Italy, Austria and Switzerland. It is ahead of France, Germany and Hungary. In summary, America is good at allowing the poor to become middle class. It is less good at letting the middle class become exorbitantly rich, though not terribly so. [1] https://www.oecd.org/social/broken-elevator-how-to-promote-social-mobility-9789264301085-en.htm https://www.oecd.org/social/broken-elevator-how-to-promote-s... [2] https://www.oecd.org/els/soc/1-5%20generations.png https://www.oecd.org/els/soc/1-5%20generations.png
- dieortin 5y agoThe military industry does indeed have the objective of hurting people, and it’s an important part of the US economy.
- zepto 5y ago> does indeed have the objective of hurting people That simply isn’t true. Generals and civilian leaders set the objectives of the military, and typically their objectives are to minimize casualties on both sides of any military engagement. The military does use force and does hurt people but that is not an objective.
- nicoburns 5y agoThere are plenty of well paid tech jobs in Europe. The ridiculous levels of pay you can get in the US are really creating more inequality rather than addressing it.
- j_wtf_all_taken 5y agoYeah but the people commenting here are probably the ones that earn that tech money, not the person working in the service sector for a couple of $ an hour.
- ChuckNorris89 5y agoWell the topic of this thread was corporate and tech related so what do you expect? You can't always bring the lifestyle of minimum wage employees into every single discussion just as an joker card to argue that Europe is better than the US. Yes, minimum wage immigrants have it better in Europe and skilled immigrants have better opportunities in the US.
- j_wtf_all_taken 5y ago> Well the topic of this thread was corporate and tech related so what do you expect? I expected exactly this - that people that benefit from those giant companies fail to see the downsides. > You can't always bring the lifestyle of minimum wage employees into every single discussion just as an joker card to argue that Europe is better than the US. Why not, if it works? Are you not just confirming that the US works for a few lucky ones whereas Europe works for most?
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago> those giant companies fail to see the downsides So in your book big companies have only downsides? What about VW, Mercedes, BMW, SAP, Bayer, Siemens, etc? Why are big US companies evil for you and not the rest?
- 5y ago
- j_wtf_all_taken 5y agoSocial media giants? Environment-polluting industry? BTW, Germany's also a top seller of weapons! We even delivered chemicals to Assad. So yeah, in that area we really are on par.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago> Environment-polluting industry? Like VW's cheating diesel engines who's emissions I have to breathe as I walk/bike to work? >Social media giants? Nobody forces you to use those social media giants whereas I can't choose to only breathe only air not contaminated by VW diesel emissions.
- j_wtf_all_taken 5y agoYeah but at least we have those rules that VW could then break. And the negative effects of social media affect me if I use it or not.
- crunchyfrog 5y agoThe US's EPA discovered the cheating and leveled multi-billion dollar fines and indicted executives.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago>Yeah but at least we have those rules that VW could then break What kind of logic is this, that breaking rules is fine since at least we have them? Honestly, that sounds like a child who just wants something his way rather than a logical argument. What's the point of rules if you don't bother enforcing them? Speaking of rules, do you know the ones Wirecard blatantly broke and BaFin not only ignored the but actively pursued the foreign entities who tried to expose Wirecard's fraud, basically doing BaFin's job for them? Yeah, big German companies are such saints and the Government institutions so efficient and incoruptibile in Europe /s.
- j_wtf_all_taken 5y ago
- jjgreen 5y agoHey, steady on there. The UK may be a major arms sales to regimes with dubious human-rights records, but we don't actually use them ourselves, only 80k troops in the British Army.
- Applejinx 5y ago>top paying tech jobs for the working class If you believe that, I'm not sure where to start. My own family put several kids into tech jobs one way or another, but sure didn't start from being working class. As to not taxing working class people so they can turn into middle class people, boy are we not speaking the same language. For starters, you are probably talking about not taxing middle class people, by leaning MORE heavily on regressive taxation that cuts middle and upper class people a break so 'they can grow'. But that's a whole other story…
- pembrook 5y agoThe road to hell is paved with good intentions. Europe’s entire social safety net is at risk if their private sector can’t generate enough wealth to support it. Given their declining populations and anti-immigrant tendencies inflamed by the refugee crisis in many of its member states, it doesn’t look good for the EU’s future.
- j_wtf_all_taken 5y agoSo basically you're saying it could not work to have a social safety net, so let's not have one all together? Because it could go wrong, don't even try? Does not sound very American.
- sgt 5y agoIt's interesting you should note anti-immigration tendencies. I believe those tendencies are fueled by ridiculously liberal immigration laws that essentially allows far too many asylum seekers into Europe. That's why you now see ghettos and zones where the police don't go in France, Sweden and even UK. I am not against immigration but I think Europe should be seriously reconsidering non-western immigration as it will simply clash. Norway has done terrific integration of immigrants and also is in the process of shutting the gates since the 90s. It seems to be the way forward.
- ido 5y agoI am not against immigration but I think Europe should be seriously reconsidering non-western immigration as it will simply clash. I don't get why you want to filter them by "non-western"? I have arab, african, indian & east-asian friends here in Berlin that I am sure are net-postives for society. Why not set the filters to something more directly related to what you want to achieve? Such as education level, having a job offer waiting, no criminal record, etc (Germany's blue card program already does more or less that).
- j_wtf_all_taken 5y agoBecause its obviously not about what makes sense ... you don't seem to know but your friends just don't fit our awesome western culture. I really hate the term "culture" by now.
- refurb 5y agoDude, all you’ve done is pepper this post with empty rhetoric and unsubstantiated claims. If you’re interested in an actual debate based on facts, great, otherwise you’re just adding noise.
- j_wtf_all_taken 5y agoYeah. Its funny how I am always kind of really relieved to come back from the US to Europe. I know there's no guns around in a bar, I know all my friend can see a doctor when they feel sick, and hey, I don't need to ask someone to pick me up from the airport because there's public transportation. And I can switch on the TV and see boobs!