6 ms·

Couldn't fit the whole tweet, so just to be clear, she's talking about manual, non-legal requests: > One of the surprising things about working on the slander

by danso 5y ago

Couldn't fit the whole tweet, so just to be clear, she's talking about manual, non-legal requests: > One of the surprising things about working on the slander series is how few people in the field, even experts, know that Google voluntarily removes some search results. (No court order needed!) You have to visit this generic url: https://support.google.com/websearch/troubleshooter/3111061?hl=en https://support.google.com/websearch/troubleshooter/3111061?... Down the thread, she adds this: > Because so few people know about it, "reputation managers" are charging people like $500 a pop to "remove damaging information from Google results." And ALL THEY DO is fill out that form for free. Someone tried to hawk this service to my husband after he came under attack. I didn't know about this service URL, and had just assumed "reputation managers", if they did anything at all, were limited to SEO spamming. edit: Searched HN for mention of this link and found exactly 5 results, 3 of which look unique, and the earliest in Dec. 23, 2015: https://imgur.com/EEUJn9M https://imgur.com/EEUJn9M

tyingq 5y ago
They are fairly narrow categories though, and don't handle things like mugshot sites, even if it's something you were arrested...but not convicted for. Still useful to know for sure.
- joshuamorton 5y ago
  Mugshot sites might be covered by https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/9172218 https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/9172218, but it depends. [disclosure: I'm a googler, but no clue about this service]
  - tyingq 5y ago
    I'm pretty sure the mugshot sites have adjusted their practices where it's much harder to prove what's really going on. Straight up blackmail payment pages are gone.
    - Rasta1s 5y ago
      Aren't mugshots public records?
      - jrockway 5y ago
        It's the great "public" vs. "publicized" debate.
      - tyingq 5y ago
        Sort of. Some police departments publish them, some don't. Some publish them only day of, then remove them. Some only show them if you do the right kind of search (last/first/ maybe + birth). The predatory mugshot sites scrape these variations and publish them in a "forever" way, with lots of SEO tricks. Then basically shake you down for payment to remove them.
      - mike_d 5y ago
        Technically yes, but they are removed when a person is found not guilty or released without being charged thus protecting the innocent and falsely accused. The mugshot sites capitalize on this by scraping the government websites and archiving them forever - until you pay a removal fee. Mugshots.com was doing exactly this until they got hit with extortion charges: https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-mugshot-website-owners-extortion-20180518-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-mugshot-websi...
        Rasta1s 5y ago
        " Technically yes, but they are removed when a person is found not guilty or released without being charged thus protecting the innocent and falsely accused. The mugshot sites capitalize on this by scraping the government websites and archiving them forever - until you pay a removal fee." I don't believe anyone has an obligation to remove if someone found not guilty. The arrest happened, that's a fact. The information is public was made public by the government, that's also a fact. From my understanding once something is made public you can't put it back in the bag. The government may do so on their own databases (Ie. Expungement, removal from government databases) but that doesn't apply to the public and especially not to publications who have first amendment right to publish public records. I looked up the case you mentioned, it's still pending and the arguments made by the government are questionable https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20180523/10224639892/california-prosecutors-arrest-website-owners-allowing-money-to-influence-which-public-records-they-host.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20180523/10224639892/calif...
judge2020 5y ago
This might also include what is required to comply with GDPR’s right to be forgotten, if that’s still a thing.
- vitus 5y ago
  That's a different form! https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/legal-removal-request?complaint_type=rtbf https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/legal-removal-reques...
majormajor 5y ago
> Because so few people know about it, "reputation managers" are charging people like $500 a pop to "remove damaging information from Google results." And ALL THEY DO is fill out that form for free. Someone tried to hawk this service to my husband after he came under attack. While that sounds like a high price, and you usually don't want to just hire the first person you see advertise a service, the concept of specialization there, and some people just not wanting to devote the time to becoming experts everywhere, seems perfectly fine and normal. People often pay electricians even for tasks that are just "flip a switch and turn some screws," after all.
- deleted 5y ago
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- sombremesa 5y ago
  Electricity can kill you. Doesn't seem like a good comparison.
  - amelius 5y ago
    Ending up in a Google search result can too, I suppose, in some indirect way.
    - sombremesa 5y ago
      Help me with how this is relevant. Is the person you hired to scrub your Google result risking getting doxxed?
      - sumedh 5y ago
        I assume the point was that anything negative about you ends up on Google it can lead to mental issues and in a worst case scenario you might take your life so its better you hire a professional to scrub it for you.
        amelius 5y ago
gist 5y ago
> are charging people like $500 a pop to "remove damaging information from Google results." And ALL THEY DO is fill out that form for free. Someone tried to hawk this service to my husband after he came under attack. 'ALL THEY DO' is what anyone does in a similar way. You are paying for what they know that you don't know how to do. There is nothing wrong or deceptive about making money in this way. (use of 'all they do' seems to imply this). Plenty of people are busy and willing to pay for things to have someone else handle the details. Google could easily publicize this but they choose not to. Here is the thing. Someone charging $500 (or any amount) has already filtered people that feel they have a real need from everyone attempting to do similar. Now you could argue the fee should be less but the friction caused by that higher fee (for those who can afford it) is worth it. And those that can't can do research and effort (like with anything) to find a way to achieve the same. People often expect everything to be free and nobody to make money off of knowledge. By the way if reputation managers are charging $500 nothing to prevent someone from doing the same for less and changing the market price. Also I'd image the rep managers possibly massage some things to get the job done something many people wouldn't know or want to do.
- crispyambulance 5y ago
  > There is nothing wrong or deceptive about making money in this way. Absolutely incorrect. It's more complicated and insidious than your reductive argument suggests. These reputation "management" companies are also the ones who scrape public records on a massive scale and DELIBERATELY place this data really high up in search rankings. So, casual searches for someone's name often end up returning vague negative results like "xxx has a criminal record, find out more!". They ALSO spam people at internet scale and warn them about their "reputation" and how they can "fix" it. In other words, they provide the "cure" for the "injury" which they've caused. One of the worst and biggest of these piece of sh*t companies is mylife.com. They do the web-scraping and the SEO to get their results up high, AND ALSO charge money to "clean up" reputations. It happens to be legal in the USA because we're in a downward spiral of techno-feudalism, but it's a vile and dishonorable practice. The founder of mylife.com, Jeffery Tinsely, has become wealthy from these deceptive practices. He faces regular lawsuits (eg https://www.aarp.org/money/scams-fraud/info-2020/website-sued-mylife.html https://www.aarp.org/money/scams-fraud/info-2020/website-sue...). But somehow mylife.com continues to survive presumably by raking in the cash as well as VC investment (not sure if it was mylife or one of the other slimy companies run by Tinsely). FWIW, it is possible to remove your results from mylife.com. I did it. It requires a phone call and some firm persistence and patience. You call them on the phone and talk to someone at an Indian call center. Just say that you want to remove your name from mylife.com searches. It costs nothing but they WILL try to sell you their junk reputation management service with boiler-room-like intensity (worse than Verizon or Comcast), just decline for the 2 dozen times they ask. In the end it worked, I am no longer searchable on mylife.com and no mylife.com results show up on google under my name, but I get several emails a day from these MF's telling me that my reputation needs fixing and that "other people can see it". There's other companies like this. Mylife is particularly slimy but it's the biggest.
tlogan 5y ago
There is saying in Balkan countries: (my translation) “who knows knows, who does not know then it is 500 deutsche marks (dinars, etc.)”.
reaperducer 5y ago
And ALL THEY DO is fill out that form for free. Someone tried to hawk this service to my husband after he came under attack. It's like I tell my boss: "You don't pay me to push buttons. You pay me to know which buttons to push." (I think I stole it from the plumbing industry.)
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by danso 5y ago

tyingq 5y ago

They are fairly narrow categories though, and don't handle things like mugshot sites, even if it's something you were arrested...but not convicted for. Still useful to know for sure.

joshuamorton 5y ago
Mugshot sites might be covered by https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/9172218 https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/9172218, but it depends. [disclosure: I'm a googler, but no clue about this service]
- tyingq 5y ago
  I'm pretty sure the mugshot sites have adjusted their practices where it's much harder to prove what's really going on. Straight up blackmail payment pages are gone.
  - Rasta1s 5y ago
    Aren't mugshots public records?
    - jrockway 5y ago
      It's the great "public" vs. "publicized" debate.
    - tyingq 5y ago
      Sort of. Some police departments publish them, some don't. Some publish them only day of, then remove them. Some only show them if you do the right kind of search (last/first/ maybe + birth). The predatory mugshot sites scrape these variations and publish them in a "forever" way, with lots of SEO tricks. Then basically shake you down for payment to remove them.
    - mike_d 5y ago
      Technically yes, but they are removed when a person is found not guilty or released without being charged thus protecting the innocent and falsely accused. The mugshot sites capitalize on this by scraping the government websites and archiving them forever - until you pay a removal fee. Mugshots.com was doing exactly this until they got hit with extortion charges: https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-mugshot-website-owners-extortion-20180518-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-mugshot-websi...
      - Rasta1s 5y ago
        " Technically yes, but they are removed when a person is found not guilty or released without being charged thus protecting the innocent and falsely accused. The mugshot sites capitalize on this by scraping the government websites and archiving them forever - until you pay a removal fee." I don't believe anyone has an obligation to remove if someone found not guilty. The arrest happened, that's a fact. The information is public was made public by the government, that's also a fact. From my understanding once something is made public you can't put it back in the bag. The government may do so on their own databases (Ie. Expungement, removal from government databases) but that doesn't apply to the public and especially not to publications who have first amendment right to publish public records. I looked up the case you mentioned, it's still pending and the arguments made by the government are questionable https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20180523/10224639892/california-prosecutors-arrest-website-owners-allowing-money-to-influence-which-public-records-they-host.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20180523/10224639892/calif...

judge2020 5y ago

This might also include what is required to comply with GDPR’s right to be forgotten, if that’s still a thing.

vitus 5y ago
That's a different form! https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/legal-removal-request?complaint_type=rtbf https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/legal-removal-reques...

majormajor 5y ago

> Because so few people know about it, "reputation managers" are charging people like $500 a pop to "remove damaging information from Google results." And ALL THEY DO is fill out that form for free. Someone tried to hawk this service to my husband after he came under attack. While that sounds like a high price, and you usually don't want to just hire the first person you see advertise a service, the concept of specialization there, and some people just not wanting to devote the time to becoming experts everywhere, seems perfectly fine and normal. People often pay electricians even for tasks that are just "flip a switch and turn some screws," after all.

deleted 5y ago
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sombremesa 5y ago
Electricity can kill you. Doesn't seem like a good comparison.
- amelius 5y ago
  Ending up in a Google search result can too, I suppose, in some indirect way.
  - sombremesa 5y ago
    Help me with how this is relevant. Is the person you hired to scrub your Google result risking getting doxxed?
    - sumedh 5y ago
      I assume the point was that anything negative about you ends up on Google it can lead to mental issues and in a worst case scenario you might take your life so its better you hire a professional to scrub it for you.
      - amelius 5y ago

gist 5y ago

> are charging people like $500 a pop to "remove damaging information from Google results." And ALL THEY DO is fill out that form for free. Someone tried to hawk this service to my husband after he came under attack. 'ALL THEY DO' is what anyone does in a similar way. You are paying for what they know that you don't know how to do. There is nothing wrong or deceptive about making money in this way. (use of 'all they do' seems to imply this). Plenty of people are busy and willing to pay for things to have someone else handle the details. Google could easily publicize this but they choose not to. Here is the thing. Someone charging $500 (or any amount) has already filtered people that feel they have a real need from everyone attempting to do similar. Now you could argue the fee should be less but the friction caused by that higher fee (for those who can afford it) is worth it. And those that can't can do research and effort (like with anything) to find a way to achieve the same. People often expect everything to be free and nobody to make money off of knowledge. By the way if reputation managers are charging $500 nothing to prevent someone from doing the same for less and changing the market price. Also I'd image the rep managers possibly massage some things to get the job done something many people wouldn't know or want to do.

crispyambulance 5y ago
> There is nothing wrong or deceptive about making money in this way. Absolutely incorrect. It's more complicated and insidious than your reductive argument suggests. These reputation "management" companies are also the ones who scrape public records on a massive scale and DELIBERATELY place this data really high up in search rankings. So, casual searches for someone's name often end up returning vague negative results like "xxx has a criminal record, find out more!". They ALSO spam people at internet scale and warn them about their "reputation" and how they can "fix" it. In other words, they provide the "cure" for the "injury" which they've caused. One of the worst and biggest of these piece of sh*t companies is mylife.com. They do the web-scraping and the SEO to get their results up high, AND ALSO charge money to "clean up" reputations. It happens to be legal in the USA because we're in a downward spiral of techno-feudalism, but it's a vile and dishonorable practice. The founder of mylife.com, Jeffery Tinsely, has become wealthy from these deceptive practices. He faces regular lawsuits (eg https://www.aarp.org/money/scams-fraud/info-2020/website-sued-mylife.html https://www.aarp.org/money/scams-fraud/info-2020/website-sue...). But somehow mylife.com continues to survive presumably by raking in the cash as well as VC investment (not sure if it was mylife or one of the other slimy companies run by Tinsely). FWIW, it is possible to remove your results from mylife.com. I did it. It requires a phone call and some firm persistence and patience. You call them on the phone and talk to someone at an Indian call center. Just say that you want to remove your name from mylife.com searches. It costs nothing but they WILL try to sell you their junk reputation management service with boiler-room-like intensity (worse than Verizon or Comcast), just decline for the 2 dozen times they ask. In the end it worked, I am no longer searchable on mylife.com and no mylife.com results show up on google under my name, but I get several emails a day from these MF's telling me that my reputation needs fixing and that "other people can see it". There's other companies like this. Mylife is particularly slimy but it's the biggest.

tlogan 5y ago

There is saying in Balkan countries: (my translation) “who knows knows, who does not know then it is 500 deutsche marks (dinars, etc.)”.

reaperducer 5y ago

And ALL THEY DO is fill out that form for free. Someone tried to hawk this service to my husband after he came under attack. It's like I tell my boss: "You don't pay me to push buttons. You pay me to know which buttons to push." (I think I stole it from the plumbing industry.)

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