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There is a good quote that is always passed around in education circles: "The soft bigotry of low expectations" Educators that have low expectations for certai

by sc68cal 15y ago

There is a good quote that is always passed around in education circles: "The soft bigotry of low expectations" Educators that have low expectations for certain students will not challenge them and hold them accountable for their work and studies. The student will pick up on this fact. It's a self-fulfilling prophesy. I'm glad that they are beginning to quantify this piece of common wisdom. Perhaps this will break the bad habits and mindsets of some educators out there.

tempire 15y ago
Indeed; anyone with children knows how impressionable they are. I have to wonder how many educators are parents themselves.
- sc68cal 15y ago
  That's a great question. My experience is that you have to REALLY like kids in order to be an educator. Most teachers are female and young, with in steady relationships and planned to have kids (at least at Temple University where I went to school). I wasn't crazy about kids and ended up changing my major to CS. Which is why I'm here! ;)
lionelhutz 15y ago
Exactly, you take one group and label them "gifted" and tell them how wonderful they are and how they all are and going to become doctors, engineers, lawyers, and accountants. Then you take the other group and tell them they're "sufficient" and "average". No wonder the kids who are gifted are going to excel--they have confidence. The "average" kids have already had their dreams crushed. No more art/photography, jazz band, advanced chemistry or computer labs for you! Now all your electives are college readiness programs and that suck the fun out of learning. I remember honors chemistry at my high school was allowed to do experiments, but regular chemistry wasn't. No wonder the kids in honors chemistry liked chemistry more and were excited to learn. I remember watching my chem teacher taking pure sodium and dropping it in water and watching it explode. The other class had to read out of a textbook.
- Daniel_Newby 15y ago
  No wonder the kids who are gifted are going to excel--they have confidence. The "average" kids have already had their dreams crushed. This hypothesis has been tested and refuted. When identical twins are separated at birth and adopted by different families, they often have wildly different environments. Some go to good schools, some to bad. Some go to families that nurture academic achievement, some to sports families. Nonetheless, the achievement level of one twin is predicted mostly by that of the other twin, not by the adoptive environment. The underlying cause appears to be general intelligence, as measured by IQ. The effect holds even for highly intelligent people who are diverted from the university track. They simply direct their achievements in other directions.
  - kragen 15y ago
    As explained in other branches of this discussion thread, this hypothesis has also been tested and confirmed: kids of different countries are distributed on dramatically different bell curves, much further separated than kids of different ethnicities in the same country. Probably the twin studies you're describing didn't find much of an environmental effect because the environments they were looking at were actually very similar, in part because only extremely bad families have a major environmental effect.
    - Daniel_Newby 15y ago
      Compare the study in question[1] with a list of the nations ranked by IQ[2]. The lists are in about the same order, because math accomplishment is driven by IQ, IQ is strongly influenced by genetics, and different countries tend to have different genetics. much further separated than kids of different ethnicities in the same country No. African-Americans, for example, have an average IQ of 85, very much like an up-market African country. Go read The Bell Curve. only extremely bad families have a major environmental effect The siblings in the adoptive families have nearly the full range of accomplishments of the general public. The possible explanations are (1) a sibling's accomplishments are mostly determined by internal causes, or (2) a sibling's accomplishments are substantially influenced by environment, and they experience a wide range of environments (even within the same family). Other studies use twins raised together. The twins are more similar to each other than to their non-twin siblings, and the differences are explained mostly by IQ. This suggests that accomplishment comes mostly from internal causes. the environments they were looking at were actually very similar In terms of opportunity, they are extremely similar by adulthood. In the U.S., annual income at age 30 depends mostly on IQ, regardless of race, ethnicity, and other factors. [1] http://pirls.bc.edu/timss2007/PDF/T07_M_IR_Chapter1.pdf http://pirls.bc.edu/timss2007/PDF/T07_M_IR_Chapter1.pdf [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations
matwood 15y ago
Educators that have low expectations for certain students will not challenge them and hold them accountable for their work and studies. I found this true even as a student in the 'gifted and talented' program through high school and most of middle school. It wasn't until college (and even then only math/science/cs classes) where I was really challenged.
- jerf 15y ago
  I suspect quite strongly that what we today call "gifted" is really about what the average child should reach, and I don't care to even guess at what the true upper end of truly gifted individuals could attain in a teaching environment that is actually properly designed, rather than being handed down from on high by our 19th century betters.
kbatten 15y ago
It seems to me that the word "gifted" has been diluted to mean "meets expectations."
pbhjpbhj 15y ago
>Educators that have low expectations for certain students will not challenge them and hold them accountable for their work and studies. The student will pick up on this fact. It's a self-fulfilling prophesy. // There's research I've read about here showing that having high expectation worsened exam results. That is if a person was shown that they were good then they performed worse on a subsequent test. If the subject was told that they had tried hard and achieved (in proportion to their effort? can't recall exactly) then they tried hard again. This appears to contradict the info given here (though it's not a diametric opposition) and contradicts your statement that it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. I'm up far too early (no sleep yet, 2½ hours til children are up) but if no one digs it out I'll look for the research. It's had an effect on how I attempt to encourage my kids and on my perception of "praise" too.

by sc68cal 15y ago

tempire 15y ago

Indeed; anyone with children knows how impressionable they are. I have to wonder how many educators are parents themselves.

sc68cal 15y ago
That's a great question. My experience is that you have to REALLY like kids in order to be an educator. Most teachers are female and young, with in steady relationships and planned to have kids (at least at Temple University where I went to school). I wasn't crazy about kids and ended up changing my major to CS. Which is why I'm here! ;)

lionelhutz 15y ago

Exactly, you take one group and label them "gifted" and tell them how wonderful they are and how they all are and going to become doctors, engineers, lawyers, and accountants. Then you take the other group and tell them they're "sufficient" and "average". No wonder the kids who are gifted are going to excel--they have confidence. The "average" kids have already had their dreams crushed. No more art/photography, jazz band, advanced chemistry or computer labs for you! Now all your electives are college readiness programs and that suck the fun out of learning. I remember honors chemistry at my high school was allowed to do experiments, but regular chemistry wasn't. No wonder the kids in honors chemistry liked chemistry more and were excited to learn. I remember watching my chem teacher taking pure sodium and dropping it in water and watching it explode. The other class had to read out of a textbook.

Daniel_Newby 15y ago
No wonder the kids who are gifted are going to excel--they have confidence. The "average" kids have already had their dreams crushed. This hypothesis has been tested and refuted. When identical twins are separated at birth and adopted by different families, they often have wildly different environments. Some go to good schools, some to bad. Some go to families that nurture academic achievement, some to sports families. Nonetheless, the achievement level of one twin is predicted mostly by that of the other twin, not by the adoptive environment. The underlying cause appears to be general intelligence, as measured by IQ. The effect holds even for highly intelligent people who are diverted from the university track. They simply direct their achievements in other directions.
- kragen 15y ago
  As explained in other branches of this discussion thread, this hypothesis has also been tested and confirmed: kids of different countries are distributed on dramatically different bell curves, much further separated than kids of different ethnicities in the same country. Probably the twin studies you're describing didn't find much of an environmental effect because the environments they were looking at were actually very similar, in part because only extremely bad families have a major environmental effect.
  - Daniel_Newby 15y ago
    Compare the study in question[1] with a list of the nations ranked by IQ[2]. The lists are in about the same order, because math accomplishment is driven by IQ, IQ is strongly influenced by genetics, and different countries tend to have different genetics. much further separated than kids of different ethnicities in the same country No. African-Americans, for example, have an average IQ of 85, very much like an up-market African country. Go read The Bell Curve. only extremely bad families have a major environmental effect The siblings in the adoptive families have nearly the full range of accomplishments of the general public. The possible explanations are (1) a sibling's accomplishments are mostly determined by internal causes, or (2) a sibling's accomplishments are substantially influenced by environment, and they experience a wide range of environments (even within the same family). Other studies use twins raised together. The twins are more similar to each other than to their non-twin siblings, and the differences are explained mostly by IQ. This suggests that accomplishment comes mostly from internal causes. the environments they were looking at were actually very similar In terms of opportunity, they are extremely similar by adulthood. In the U.S., annual income at age 30 depends mostly on IQ, regardless of race, ethnicity, and other factors. [1] http://pirls.bc.edu/timss2007/PDF/T07_M_IR_Chapter1.pdf http://pirls.bc.edu/timss2007/PDF/T07_M_IR_Chapter1.pdf [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations

matwood 15y ago

Educators that have low expectations for certain students will not challenge them and hold them accountable for their work and studies. I found this true even as a student in the 'gifted and talented' program through high school and most of middle school. It wasn't until college (and even then only math/science/cs classes) where I was really challenged.

jerf 15y ago
I suspect quite strongly that what we today call "gifted" is really about what the average child should reach, and I don't care to even guess at what the true upper end of truly gifted individuals could attain in a teaching environment that is actually properly designed, rather than being handed down from on high by our 19th century betters.

kbatten 15y ago

It seems to me that the word "gifted" has been diluted to mean "meets expectations."

pbhjpbhj 15y ago

>Educators that have low expectations for certain students will not challenge them and hold them accountable for their work and studies. The student will pick up on this fact. It's a self-fulfilling prophesy. // There's research I've read about here showing that having high expectation worsened exam results. That is if a person was shown that they were good then they performed worse on a subsequent test. If the subject was told that they had tried hard and achieved (in proportion to their effort? can't recall exactly) then they tried hard again. This appears to contradict the info given here (though it's not a diametric opposition) and contradicts your statement that it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. I'm up far too early (no sleep yet, 2½ hours til children are up) but if no one digs it out I'll look for the research. It's had an effect on how I attempt to encourage my kids and on my perception of "praise" too.