11 ms·

Wow. That is unexpected. I have to say that FaceTime in a browser sandbox is one of the few Apple products I would consider using. I wonder what made them take

Wow. That is unexpected. I have to say that FaceTime in a browser sandbox is one of the few Apple products I would consider using. I wonder what made them take this path? I also wonder if someone could build a Matrix bridge if it is available via web, that would be fairly cool. Some questions: - Is it phone-number based IDs? Or can I pick a username or get a random ID? - Is spam going to be a problem? Previous Apple had the advantage that you had to buy a multi-hundred dollar advice to call someone. Will they need to implement new spam measures (or will you simply have to add a contact first)?

DoctorOW 5y ago
This comment likely answers your questions https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27425909 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27425909
kwanbix 5y ago
This is a honest question, so, what is so good about FaceTime? I have not used an iPhone since version 3GS, so it has been a while, but I understand it is just something similar to whatsapp video calls, google meet, or even zoom?
- salamandersauce 5y ago
  It's just easier to use for Apple entrenched people. You can automatically see which of your contacts you can call with it and you can do it straight from the contacts app. Plus it will ring iPhone/Mac/iPad. Otherwise it's not considerably different.
  - xnyan 5y ago
    That's a bit dismissive. I use android and iOS devices regularly and of all the options facetime is what I use the most for the following reasons: 1) The latency is very good, which is critical for a comfortable video chat experience. 2) Performance and experience is reliable and consistent and it handles less-than-ideal network condition very well. It's the one that I know is most likely to give me an acceptable experience the first time.
- kevincox 5y ago
  I am not aware of anything in particular. But my threshold of "I will run it in the browser" is fairly low, so if someone wanted to do a FaceTime call with me I would join.
- throaway46546 5y ago
  My Grandpa has FaceTime and already knows how to use it.
- drewmol 5y ago
  What others have said. From my experience it's relatively simple, feature limited and dead simple to use on screen/camera containing ios/macos devices. The web version won't have the same get the app nag/confusion as zoom/whatsapp/meet, at least temporarily....
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  In my family, it was the best video calling option back in 2010-2012 or so, and there was no competition. So all the older people only know how to use Facetime, and no one is going to go through the trouble of teaching them anything else. I also have been embarrassed trying to teach Google's solutions and then Google messing with them over and over, so I won't ever try to introduce a Google service again.
  - notsureaboutpg 5y ago
    Google Duo (the FaceTime competitor afaik) works fine and I have used it with all my family for a while now. There's also WhatsApp video which is pretty poor quality, imo. Duo is much clearer and higher quality.
    - modernhybrid 5y ago
      the web interface works pretty nicely as well. I've been using google messages and duo lately and they have been working pretty flawlessly
      - josephg 5y ago
        I’m sure it does - the technical aspects of Google’s products are fantastic. But I’ve been burned enough times now and I just assume anything interesting and new that Google makes will be rebranded / deleted / shunted into a new department in a few years for no reason. Google duo? What about Allo? Is that gchat? Is it related to hangouts? Or was that just a Google plus thing? Does that even still exist? Is duo it related to Meet? It’s all such a mess. When Inbox came out I thought “huh this is great. I’d better not get used to it or I’ll be sad when it inevitably gets shut down in a few years”. And sure enough. I dread the family conversations in a few years of “wait where did the icon go?”
        fshbbdssbbgdd 5y ago
        The Gmail app pretty much turned into Inbox. I was dreading the shutdown of Inbox but it ended up being a complete non-event.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Seanambers 5y ago
  I see from the responses that one thing that is omitted is the clearly higher audio/video quality. I had someone call me on facebook messenger, but had to ask them to call me on facetime purely because of quality, and its not the first time. As with all Apple products "it just works". I wonder if that may change when it goes to the web.
  - TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
    We defaulted to Facetime until it became obvious that it really couldn't cope with occasional bandwidth glitches. We switched to WhatsApp and video quality is noticeably more reliable. It does a better job when - for example - someone is outside and the WiFi isn't 100%.
  - cargo8 5y ago
    Duo and WhatsApp have significantly better video quality (especially off of Wi-Fi) than FaceTime
    - imwillofficial 5y ago
      This is demonstrably false. WhatsApp is so bad it makes my eyes bleed.
    - passivate 5y ago
      I've found WA to be more stable on the audio front, and video is great as well. But I have an ancient 6s so I'm not quite putting out the highest quality video.
    - philliphaydon 5y ago
      The audio in WA is good, but the video quality is TERRIBLE on WA. LINE which I use more often is far better quality than WA.
    - cacarr 5y ago
      That's certainly true of Duo in experience.
  - 5y ago
- Spooky23 5y ago
  Zoom is more like Webex, FaceTime is more like WhatsApp or Facebook Messenger with less creepyness.
- aledalgrande 5y ago
  What people said in sibling posts was true before today. Now we'll also have spatial audio, music sharing, video sharing, controls to filter out noise (or not) in real time and other cool features. Although not on the Web I expect.
- awad 5y ago
  Not to be cliche but...it just works. Especially for the older generation who are used to calling people, the UX is seamless. No links to send (Zoom), no ever-changing products and menus (Google anything), and as few taps as possible/low friction to turn on (Whatsapp is comparable). The audio and video quality is also pretty damn good.
- test001only 5y ago
  Atleast for me, the experience with Facetime has been less than optimal. For some reason the call option to some of my contacts is always disabled even though they can call me. The left hand side of the window in Mac always displays recently called. No idea how to access contacts in the Mac app. The video quality is all right.
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    > The left hand side of the window in Mac always displays recently called. No idea how to access contacts in the Mac app. In the app itself AFAIK your only option is to type into the search box at the top of the missed calls list, and it will search contacts. Otherwise you can load the contacts app and look there, and then click the facetime icon for the contact you want to connect with.
- crossroadsguy 5y ago
  Nothing. Works worse than WhatsApp and Google Meet. Way worse than Duo. Functionality wise worse than Zoom but UI is maybe better than Zoom. But wait, FaceTime has essentially no UI. Works a lot better than Signal. But Signal’s audio video and their UI around it sucks, so that’s nothing FaceTime ought to be proud of. It’s just Apple doing Apple things and fans going bonkers over it.
- almostdigital 5y ago
  I like it because it has lower a/v latency compared to many other apps, especially over long distances. I think many people don't realize how much it affects the feel of the call. A fun way to test is counting to 10 by having one person say 1 and the other say 2 as soon as they hear the 1 and so on. You'd be surprised how long it can take to count to 10 on some apps
- natch 5y ago
  Privacy, and if negatives can be positives, it's not Facebook by association, not Google, and not Zoom. I won't explain why those negatives are negatives because I think it's widely known, but again it relates to privacy.
- helsinkiandrew 5y ago
  On an iPhone, the barrier to using facetime is very low, its like making or receiving a video phone call than using a video conferencing app - I'd imagine more elderly or low computer/smart phone literate would can a facetime call to their grandkids than use whatsapp/zoom to do the same
  - betteryourweb 5y ago
    Google Duo is simpler than them all... It's been a fucking decade, if these people hadn't found an alternative to and learned a video/conference app other than facetime, it's too fucking late!!!
Someone1234 5y ago
> Is it phone-number based IDs? Or can I pick a username or get a random ID? You can use FaceTime without a phone number. Just create an Apple account, then give your contact your AppleID associated email address to add to their contact card for you and you have a working FaceTime destination.
- sneak 5y ago
  > You can use FaceTime without a phone number. Just create an Apple account You cannot create an Apple account without providing a phone number.
  - Twisell 5y ago
    Any number is usable though, it can be a landline and use automated call rather than sms. Point is to limit false account (and I guess also having some clues about real identity in case of abuse).
    - arvinsim 5y ago
      So you still can't use Facetime without a phone number.
julietteeb 5y ago
Just tried and when going to the site it asks for a name, no need for an Apple Id. And on the hosts device it asks to be let into the call.
floatingatoll 5y ago
My theory is that FaceTime calls can only be initiated/scheduled from an Apple device. That prevents most of the spam problem, since you won’t be able to initiate a call through web.
- SilverRed 5y ago
  This also boosts value for ios users more than the rest. It means an ios user can facetime anyone rather than only ios users while an android users still has to rely on an alternative solution.
  - floatingatoll 5y ago
    I’m sure if they could kill global phone networks with FaceTime for everyone they would, but I think that they’re solving spam by blocking any device that spans using a serial number or secure UUID or something that iOS can’t fake, rooted or unroofed — but their web solution can’t access such data to provide a hardware-baked identifier to ban for spamming.
  - fauigerzigerk 5y ago
    I worry that my contacts could feel insulted if they find out I'm contacting them via this sort of "don't call me" communications channel.
    - kevincox 5y ago
      Well it sounds like they will send you the link between another communication channel. So you can always respond there and send your own video call link (using another service).
- izgzhen 5y ago
  > Apple announced that FaceTime is going to be available on the web so users can call in from Android devices and Windows PCs From the article.
  - 5y ago
lurkerasdfh8 5y ago
> I wonder what made them take this path? it was literally an email that surface on the Epic store litigation, where one Apple exec says (quote from memory) "We can't have facetime for android because that will remove the barrier for families to buy Android phones for their kids" So it will be crappy and have TONS of limitations (wouldn't be surprised it it only work with one apple device hosting) because it is only for legal excuse reasons.
- lurkerasdfh8 5y ago
  apple PR is running around downvoting facts :D
- bottled_poe 5y ago
  > We can't have facetime for android because that will remove the barrier for families to buy Android phones for their kids I might be missing something... Is there something in this that is illegal?
  - infofarmer 5y ago
    It seems to violate various competition laws depending on jurisdiction.
    - yoz-y 5y ago
      Does it? One thing going for this is that Apple is huge and iMessage has a massive amount of users. But on the other hand forcing developers to support all platforms is just not realistic.
  - lurkerasdfh8 5y ago
    > illegal besides being immoral and a literal F-U to your consumers, it can bring anti trust cases when you are as big as Apple. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendor_lock-in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendor_lock-in But other than that, well, just go celebrate your $2 gain on your APPL stocks despite the fact you were prohibited to call 50% of your friends just so someone couldn't save a few bucks when buying a phone for their teenage kid. Go you!
axiosgunnar 5y ago
> I wonder what made them take this path? Very simple. Video conferencing software has an anti-network effect: If just one person in a group cannot use a particular app, nobody in the group can.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- ehsankia 5y ago
  Doesn't the same apply to chat software / iMessage? Also, FaceTime isn't really conferencing software (though they added a bunch of conferencing feature just now). It's closer to Duo, which focuses on casual face to face meetings, not at desk, presenting slides kind of video meeting.
  - garciasn 5y ago
    No, because it just moves to SMS for the group, instead. Video conferencing has no ubiquitous fallback.
    - ulfw 5y ago
      Neither does SMS for large parts of the world. Not everyone has unlimited SMS like US carriers do. And/or as soon as one participant is abroad you're talking international SMS prices. This isn't a clean fallback option.
      - Naracion 5y ago
        However it's a _good enough_ fallback that has been working for many groups. Yes, it doesn't solve the issue for all possible groups. But Apple likely doesn't care yet, and probably shouldn't until there are other changes it can work on that would affect larger groups (like bringing FaceTime to the web).
      - cguess 5y ago
        Most of the world uses WhatsApp though, so there's no fallback necessary if most people in the world never even open up iMessage.
dkonofalski 5y ago
Considering that it's only available to join existing calls and not to initiate calls, it's likely an email address paired with a random ID.
raydev 5y ago
I worry that if it's anything like the music.apple.com experience, it will be frustrating to use. I spend a lot of time on my PC for streams/gaming, and I put up with music.apple.com because I'm normally a happy subscriber using my iPhone. But the website is just terrible. - I get logged out if I don't visit for a day which requires a whole 2FA dance. Why not just leave me logged in? - If I am still "logged in" after some hours, all songs become "previews" and I can't actually listen to anything. The fix is to log out and log back in, and it's a dice roll whether I'll get to do the 2FA dance again - Songs routinely just don't play when I click them. Only fix seems to be leaving the album that I'm looking at and then returning to the same page - Navigating away from albums occasionally makes Chrome pop up a "you have unsaved changes" warning. Why?
musicale 5y ago
> I wonder what made them take this path? Perhaps noticing that everyone was using Zoom during the pandemic? Remember originally Steve Jobs promised that FaceTime would be an "open standard." For some reason Apple backed off on that.

DoctorOW 5y ago

This comment likely answers your questions https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27425909 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27425909

kwanbix 5y ago

This is a honest question, so, what is so good about FaceTime? I have not used an iPhone since version 3GS, so it has been a while, but I understand it is just something similar to whatsapp video calls, google meet, or even zoom?

salamandersauce 5y ago
It's just easier to use for Apple entrenched people. You can automatically see which of your contacts you can call with it and you can do it straight from the contacts app. Plus it will ring iPhone/Mac/iPad. Otherwise it's not considerably different.
- xnyan 5y ago
  That's a bit dismissive. I use android and iOS devices regularly and of all the options facetime is what I use the most for the following reasons: 1) The latency is very good, which is critical for a comfortable video chat experience. 2) Performance and experience is reliable and consistent and it handles less-than-ideal network condition very well. It's the one that I know is most likely to give me an acceptable experience the first time.
kevincox 5y ago
I am not aware of anything in particular. But my threshold of "I will run it in the browser" is fairly low, so if someone wanted to do a FaceTime call with me I would join.
throaway46546 5y ago
My Grandpa has FaceTime and already knows how to use it.
drewmol 5y ago
What others have said. From my experience it's relatively simple, feature limited and dead simple to use on screen/camera containing ios/macos devices. The web version won't have the same get the app nag/confusion as zoom/whatsapp/meet, at least temporarily....
lotsofpulp 5y ago
In my family, it was the best video calling option back in 2010-2012 or so, and there was no competition. So all the older people only know how to use Facetime, and no one is going to go through the trouble of teaching them anything else. I also have been embarrassed trying to teach Google's solutions and then Google messing with them over and over, so I won't ever try to introduce a Google service again.
- notsureaboutpg 5y ago
  Google Duo (the FaceTime competitor afaik) works fine and I have used it with all my family for a while now. There's also WhatsApp video which is pretty poor quality, imo. Duo is much clearer and higher quality.
  - modernhybrid 5y ago
    the web interface works pretty nicely as well. I've been using google messages and duo lately and they have been working pretty flawlessly
    - josephg 5y ago
      I’m sure it does - the technical aspects of Google’s products are fantastic. But I’ve been burned enough times now and I just assume anything interesting and new that Google makes will be rebranded / deleted / shunted into a new department in a few years for no reason. Google duo? What about Allo? Is that gchat? Is it related to hangouts? Or was that just a Google plus thing? Does that even still exist? Is duo it related to Meet? It’s all such a mess. When Inbox came out I thought “huh this is great. I’d better not get used to it or I’ll be sad when it inevitably gets shut down in a few years”. And sure enough. I dread the family conversations in a few years of “wait where did the icon go?”
      - fshbbdssbbgdd 5y ago
        The Gmail app pretty much turned into Inbox. I was dreading the shutdown of Inbox but it ended up being a complete non-event.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Seanambers 5y ago
I see from the responses that one thing that is omitted is the clearly higher audio/video quality. I had someone call me on facebook messenger, but had to ask them to call me on facetime purely because of quality, and its not the first time. As with all Apple products "it just works". I wonder if that may change when it goes to the web.
- TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
  We defaulted to Facetime until it became obvious that it really couldn't cope with occasional bandwidth glitches. We switched to WhatsApp and video quality is noticeably more reliable. It does a better job when - for example - someone is outside and the WiFi isn't 100%.
- cargo8 5y ago
  Duo and WhatsApp have significantly better video quality (especially off of Wi-Fi) than FaceTime
  - imwillofficial 5y ago
    This is demonstrably false. WhatsApp is so bad it makes my eyes bleed.
  - passivate 5y ago
    I've found WA to be more stable on the audio front, and video is great as well. But I have an ancient 6s so I'm not quite putting out the highest quality video.
  - philliphaydon 5y ago
    The audio in WA is good, but the video quality is TERRIBLE on WA. LINE which I use more often is far better quality than WA.
  - cacarr 5y ago
    That's certainly true of Duo in experience.
- 5y ago
Spooky23 5y ago
Zoom is more like Webex, FaceTime is more like WhatsApp or Facebook Messenger with less creepyness.
aledalgrande 5y ago
What people said in sibling posts was true before today. Now we'll also have spatial audio, music sharing, video sharing, controls to filter out noise (or not) in real time and other cool features. Although not on the Web I expect.
awad 5y ago
Not to be cliche but...it just works. Especially for the older generation who are used to calling people, the UX is seamless. No links to send (Zoom), no ever-changing products and menus (Google anything), and as few taps as possible/low friction to turn on (Whatsapp is comparable). The audio and video quality is also pretty damn good.
test001only 5y ago
Atleast for me, the experience with Facetime has been less than optimal. For some reason the call option to some of my contacts is always disabled even though they can call me. The left hand side of the window in Mac always displays recently called. No idea how to access contacts in the Mac app. The video quality is all right.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  > The left hand side of the window in Mac always displays recently called. No idea how to access contacts in the Mac app. In the app itself AFAIK your only option is to type into the search box at the top of the missed calls list, and it will search contacts. Otherwise you can load the contacts app and look there, and then click the facetime icon for the contact you want to connect with.
crossroadsguy 5y ago
Nothing. Works worse than WhatsApp and Google Meet. Way worse than Duo. Functionality wise worse than Zoom but UI is maybe better than Zoom. But wait, FaceTime has essentially no UI. Works a lot better than Signal. But Signal’s audio video and their UI around it sucks, so that’s nothing FaceTime ought to be proud of. It’s just Apple doing Apple things and fans going bonkers over it.
almostdigital 5y ago
I like it because it has lower a/v latency compared to many other apps, especially over long distances. I think many people don't realize how much it affects the feel of the call. A fun way to test is counting to 10 by having one person say 1 and the other say 2 as soon as they hear the 1 and so on. You'd be surprised how long it can take to count to 10 on some apps
natch 5y ago
Privacy, and if negatives can be positives, it's not Facebook by association, not Google, and not Zoom. I won't explain why those negatives are negatives because I think it's widely known, but again it relates to privacy.
helsinkiandrew 5y ago
On an iPhone, the barrier to using facetime is very low, its like making or receiving a video phone call than using a video conferencing app - I'd imagine more elderly or low computer/smart phone literate would can a facetime call to their grandkids than use whatsapp/zoom to do the same
- betteryourweb 5y ago
  Google Duo is simpler than them all... It's been a fucking decade, if these people hadn't found an alternative to and learned a video/conference app other than facetime, it's too fucking late!!!

Someone1234 5y ago

> Is it phone-number based IDs? Or can I pick a username or get a random ID? You can use FaceTime without a phone number. Just create an Apple account, then give your contact your AppleID associated email address to add to their contact card for you and you have a working FaceTime destination.

sneak 5y ago
> You can use FaceTime without a phone number. Just create an Apple account You cannot create an Apple account without providing a phone number.
- Twisell 5y ago
  Any number is usable though, it can be a landline and use automated call rather than sms. Point is to limit false account (and I guess also having some clues about real identity in case of abuse).
  - arvinsim 5y ago
    So you still can't use Facetime without a phone number.

julietteeb 5y ago

Just tried and when going to the site it asks for a name, no need for an Apple Id. And on the hosts device it asks to be let into the call.

floatingatoll 5y ago

My theory is that FaceTime calls can only be initiated/scheduled from an Apple device. That prevents most of the spam problem, since you won’t be able to initiate a call through web.

SilverRed 5y ago
This also boosts value for ios users more than the rest. It means an ios user can facetime anyone rather than only ios users while an android users still has to rely on an alternative solution.
- floatingatoll 5y ago
  I’m sure if they could kill global phone networks with FaceTime for everyone they would, but I think that they’re solving spam by blocking any device that spans using a serial number or secure UUID or something that iOS can’t fake, rooted or unroofed — but their web solution can’t access such data to provide a hardware-baked identifier to ban for spamming.
- fauigerzigerk 5y ago
  I worry that my contacts could feel insulted if they find out I'm contacting them via this sort of "don't call me" communications channel.
  - kevincox 5y ago
    Well it sounds like they will send you the link between another communication channel. So you can always respond there and send your own video call link (using another service).
izgzhen 5y ago
> Apple announced that FaceTime is going to be available on the web so users can call in from Android devices and Windows PCs From the article.
- 5y ago

lurkerasdfh8 5y ago

> I wonder what made them take this path? it was literally an email that surface on the Epic store litigation, where one Apple exec says (quote from memory) "We can't have facetime for android because that will remove the barrier for families to buy Android phones for their kids" So it will be crappy and have TONS of limitations (wouldn't be surprised it it only work with one apple device hosting) because it is only for legal excuse reasons.

lurkerasdfh8 5y ago
apple PR is running around downvoting facts :D
bottled_poe 5y ago
> We can't have facetime for android because that will remove the barrier for families to buy Android phones for their kids I might be missing something... Is there something in this that is illegal?
- infofarmer 5y ago
  It seems to violate various competition laws depending on jurisdiction.
  - yoz-y 5y ago
    Does it? One thing going for this is that Apple is huge and iMessage has a massive amount of users. But on the other hand forcing developers to support all platforms is just not realistic.
- lurkerasdfh8 5y ago
  > illegal besides being immoral and a literal F-U to your consumers, it can bring anti trust cases when you are as big as Apple. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendor_lock-in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendor_lock-in But other than that, well, just go celebrate your $2 gain on your APPL stocks despite the fact you were prohibited to call 50% of your friends just so someone couldn't save a few bucks when buying a phone for their teenage kid. Go you!

axiosgunnar 5y ago

> I wonder what made them take this path? Very simple. Video conferencing software has an anti-network effect: If just one person in a group cannot use a particular app, nobody in the group can.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ehsankia 5y ago
Doesn't the same apply to chat software / iMessage? Also, FaceTime isn't really conferencing software (though they added a bunch of conferencing feature just now). It's closer to Duo, which focuses on casual face to face meetings, not at desk, presenting slides kind of video meeting.
- garciasn 5y ago
  No, because it just moves to SMS for the group, instead. Video conferencing has no ubiquitous fallback.
  - ulfw 5y ago
    Neither does SMS for large parts of the world. Not everyone has unlimited SMS like US carriers do. And/or as soon as one participant is abroad you're talking international SMS prices. This isn't a clean fallback option.
    - Naracion 5y ago
      However it's a _good enough_ fallback that has been working for many groups. Yes, it doesn't solve the issue for all possible groups. But Apple likely doesn't care yet, and probably shouldn't until there are other changes it can work on that would affect larger groups (like bringing FaceTime to the web).
    - cguess 5y ago
      Most of the world uses WhatsApp though, so there's no fallback necessary if most people in the world never even open up iMessage.

dkonofalski 5y ago

Considering that it's only available to join existing calls and not to initiate calls, it's likely an email address paired with a random ID.

raydev 5y ago

I worry that if it's anything like the music.apple.com experience, it will be frustrating to use. I spend a lot of time on my PC for streams/gaming, and I put up with music.apple.com because I'm normally a happy subscriber using my iPhone. But the website is just terrible. - I get logged out if I don't visit for a day which requires a whole 2FA dance. Why not just leave me logged in? - If I am still "logged in" after some hours, all songs become "previews" and I can't actually listen to anything. The fix is to log out and log back in, and it's a dice roll whether I'll get to do the 2FA dance again - Songs routinely just don't play when I click them. Only fix seems to be leaving the album that I'm looking at and then returning to the same page - Navigating away from albums occasionally makes Chrome pop up a "you have unsaved changes" warning. Why?

musicale 5y ago

> I wonder what made them take this path? Perhaps noticing that everyone was using Zoom during the pandemic? Remember originally Steve Jobs promised that FaceTime would be an "open standard." For some reason Apple backed off on that.