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I once sent in a ThinkPad for repair and Lenovo explicitly mentioned that I should remove any drives from the device before shipping it. I really think this sho

I once sent in a ThinkPad for repair and Lenovo explicitly mentioned that I should remove any drives from the device before shipping it. I really think this should be the standard for fixing hardware issues. Edit: This was during the times when even a layman could do it because drives were in a slot secured by a single screw. These days it might be more complex.

seabrookmx 5y ago
You just can't. They're soldered onto the motherboard.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- TonyTrapp 5y ago
  Certainly not in every device. But access to the drive has definitely gotten more difficult on average. I also have a newer ThinkPad where the drive is still replaceable, but it requires taking the laptop apart.
- bashinator 5y ago
  My Lenovo laptop has removable NVMe drives that are accessible with a philips-head screwdriver.
  - seabrookmx 5y ago
    Sure but assuming the victim in the arcticle had a recent Macbook, it would be soldered.
    - snypher 5y ago
      You replied to a comment about Thinkpads.
      - seabrookmx 5y ago
        .. on a post originally about Macbooks :) Apologies for the confusion. I should have said "Macbook" in my original comment.
        greyhair 5y ago
        Just like Thinkpad owners, to hijack an Apple thread. /s
dvfjsdhgfv 5y ago
I believe Apple customers would have a hard time adhering to this policy these days.
- aendruk 5y ago
  > this should be the standard > Apple customers would have a hard time I took it to be implicit to the wish that hard drives be owner-serviceable.
- Hamuko 5y ago
  I imagine that taking out the HDD would've been beyond most Apple customers even when the storage was removable and the computer was held together with (somewhat) standard screws.
  - oneeyedpigeon 5y ago
    It doesn't feel like that long ago (granted, it was the best part of twenty years...) that my Mac laptop had a lever underneath which popped the HDD clean out. That was a lovely design.
    - Hamuko 5y ago
      Apple has been making their devices much harder to open as time has passed. My 2011 MacBook didn't have any kind of a lever mechanism but after taking out about ten Philips 00 screws, the lid lifts clean open. And now my 2019 work MacBook requires taking out non-standard pentalobe screws, then using a suction cup to pry the lid open slightly in order to cram a wedge tool in-between to pop it open and then you need to slide it out in order to actually get it out.
  - dvfjsdhgfv 5y ago
    I'm an Apple customer and I'm happy with my pre-2013 era Macbook Pros with 2x2TB SSDs and 16 GB RAM, which is more than the basic configuration of modern offerings. Unfortunately, the last OS they can run is Mojave so I'll have no choice but to upgrade to M2 when M3 comes out. It really makes me sad Apple gave up this environment-friendly policy and started to aggressively glue everything preventing upgrades.
satysin 5y ago
This was my experience with a ThinkPad last year. They could not do on-site (in home) service due to the French lockdown so I had to do mail-in. They even emailed a PDF with instructions on how to remove the drive. Sadly this is not possible with a modern MacBook. When I have had to send a MacBook to Apple (or a service partner) for repair I was instructed to wipe the machine (along with ensuring I log out of iCloud to disable Activation Lock and disable Find My). While it is good to ensure my personal data is not compromised it isn't user friendly at all to have to wipe my whole machine for a battery replacement :(
- Symbiote 5y ago
  It's not user-friendly at all to require a machine to be sent off for a battery replacement. For the ThinkPad, it's a 5 minute task which many people can do themselves -- certainly anyone who works in IT. We've had less strict restrictions than France, but a couple of my colleagues replaced the batteries on their HP laptops. I sent videos, and they saw how easy it was -- less painful than a Covid test.
  - alpaca128 5y ago
    > For the ThinkPad, it's a 5 minute task which many people can do themselves Which is still a step backwards. On my ThinkPad I can remove the battery in seconds without looking. Mainly because sometimes I had to disconnect it to reset it completely. If that would take 5 minutes or any kind of tool that's already hard to justify imho. What do we gain from integrated batteries? Nothing that makes up for easy replacement or, in the case of ThinkPads, the option to upgrade the capacity before the purchase.
    - syshum 5y ago
      a few generations ago ThinkPad when to a dual battery setup so unless your ThinkPad is pretty old I bet it has both an internal and removable battery. as to "What do we gain", they claim they can make them thinner and lighter, but the T14 seems to be the same Thinkness and a T450/T460 so.......
dathinab 5y ago
Thinks have slightly changed since then. "Keep Your Drive" is now a non-free (but not that expensive) "service upgrade". Disks are still removable on most models and it's not hard, but you still have to open the bottom of the laptop. (For ThinkPads, through ultra thin models like the X1 or "unusual" models like the ThinkPad Yoga might be more problematic.) EDIT: Through it also depends on you service/guarantee contract. If you normally have a service contract where a technician will come to you but for some reasons that currently don't work you probably can keep your drive anyway etc. Also KYD extends to some other cases.
- basch 5y ago
  >"Keep Your Drive" is now a non-free (but not that expensive) "service upgrade". It's almost more of a donation in my experience. Don't pay it, remove the disk, no consequence. It's also a good idea to put the OEM ram back in the machine if youve upgraded. One of the few things they may balk at and return it unfixed.
  - michaelhoffman 5y ago
    Put the OEM RAM back? Hard to do otherwise when it's soldered to the laptop.
    - ziml77 5y ago
      Well then you also couldn't have upgraded it which was a condition he specified for putting the OEM RAM back.
      - Dylan16807 5y ago
        Clearly. But it's a complaint along similar lines of laptops being harder to work on.
  - kelnos 5y ago
    In the case where you're sending it in for a repair under warranty, I imagine for some classes of problems the manufacturer could refuse warranty service if you've removed the drive, especially since most designs now make it really easy to accidentally damage something while doing that.
anshorei 5y ago
Same here with Tuxedo Computers, I had already removed the drive because that's standard procedure. If a repair shop ever asks me my password I'm just going to another one because that is to me a clear sign they're incompetent.
- anshorei 5y ago
  (to be absolutely clear: I recommend Tuxedo computers. They suggested I remove the harddrive when sending me shipping instructions, something I had already done, but I found it very reassuring they said so and hence recommend them to tech-illiterate family and friends as well)
dheera 5y ago
> I once sent in a ThinkPad for repair and Lenovo explicitly mentioned that I should remove any drives from the device before shipping it. I really think this should be the standard for fixing hardware issues. YES. THIS. I am in vehement disagreement with Apple soldering SSDs to motherboards for partially this reason (among others, including making data recovery much harder, and lack of user upgradeability). Apple fanboys all over the world will hate on me every single time saying "What if I told you that Apple just makes the best PC". Fuck that. I want a removeable SSD so repair technicians don't need the SSD to repair other parts of the PC.
hsbauauvhabzb 5y ago
I own about 6 thinkpads. I bought the other 5 after realising how much of a dream they are to open. So easy thst I could instruct a family member to remove the SSD over the phone if needed.

seabrookmx 5y ago

You just can't. They're soldered onto the motherboard.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
TonyTrapp 5y ago
Certainly not in every device. But access to the drive has definitely gotten more difficult on average. I also have a newer ThinkPad where the drive is still replaceable, but it requires taking the laptop apart.
bashinator 5y ago
My Lenovo laptop has removable NVMe drives that are accessible with a philips-head screwdriver.
- seabrookmx 5y ago
  Sure but assuming the victim in the arcticle had a recent Macbook, it would be soldered.
  - snypher 5y ago
    You replied to a comment about Thinkpads.
    - seabrookmx 5y ago
      .. on a post originally about Macbooks :) Apologies for the confusion. I should have said "Macbook" in my original comment.
      - greyhair 5y ago
        Just like Thinkpad owners, to hijack an Apple thread. /s

dvfjsdhgfv 5y ago

I believe Apple customers would have a hard time adhering to this policy these days.

aendruk 5y ago
> this should be the standard > Apple customers would have a hard time I took it to be implicit to the wish that hard drives be owner-serviceable.
Hamuko 5y ago
I imagine that taking out the HDD would've been beyond most Apple customers even when the storage was removable and the computer was held together with (somewhat) standard screws.
- oneeyedpigeon 5y ago
  It doesn't feel like that long ago (granted, it was the best part of twenty years...) that my Mac laptop had a lever underneath which popped the HDD clean out. That was a lovely design.
  - Hamuko 5y ago
    Apple has been making their devices much harder to open as time has passed. My 2011 MacBook didn't have any kind of a lever mechanism but after taking out about ten Philips 00 screws, the lid lifts clean open. And now my 2019 work MacBook requires taking out non-standard pentalobe screws, then using a suction cup to pry the lid open slightly in order to cram a wedge tool in-between to pop it open and then you need to slide it out in order to actually get it out.
- dvfjsdhgfv 5y ago
  I'm an Apple customer and I'm happy with my pre-2013 era Macbook Pros with 2x2TB SSDs and 16 GB RAM, which is more than the basic configuration of modern offerings. Unfortunately, the last OS they can run is Mojave so I'll have no choice but to upgrade to M2 when M3 comes out. It really makes me sad Apple gave up this environment-friendly policy and started to aggressively glue everything preventing upgrades.

satysin 5y ago

This was my experience with a ThinkPad last year. They could not do on-site (in home) service due to the French lockdown so I had to do mail-in. They even emailed a PDF with instructions on how to remove the drive. Sadly this is not possible with a modern MacBook. When I have had to send a MacBook to Apple (or a service partner) for repair I was instructed to wipe the machine (along with ensuring I log out of iCloud to disable Activation Lock and disable Find My). While it is good to ensure my personal data is not compromised it isn't user friendly at all to have to wipe my whole machine for a battery replacement :(

Symbiote 5y ago
It's not user-friendly at all to require a machine to be sent off for a battery replacement. For the ThinkPad, it's a 5 minute task which many people can do themselves -- certainly anyone who works in IT. We've had less strict restrictions than France, but a couple of my colleagues replaced the batteries on their HP laptops. I sent videos, and they saw how easy it was -- less painful than a Covid test.
- alpaca128 5y ago
  > For the ThinkPad, it's a 5 minute task which many people can do themselves Which is still a step backwards. On my ThinkPad I can remove the battery in seconds without looking. Mainly because sometimes I had to disconnect it to reset it completely. If that would take 5 minutes or any kind of tool that's already hard to justify imho. What do we gain from integrated batteries? Nothing that makes up for easy replacement or, in the case of ThinkPads, the option to upgrade the capacity before the purchase.
  - syshum 5y ago
    a few generations ago ThinkPad when to a dual battery setup so unless your ThinkPad is pretty old I bet it has both an internal and removable battery. as to "What do we gain", they claim they can make them thinner and lighter, but the T14 seems to be the same Thinkness and a T450/T460 so.......

dathinab 5y ago

Thinks have slightly changed since then. "Keep Your Drive" is now a non-free (but not that expensive) "service upgrade". Disks are still removable on most models and it's not hard, but you still have to open the bottom of the laptop. (For ThinkPads, through ultra thin models like the X1 or "unusual" models like the ThinkPad Yoga might be more problematic.) EDIT: Through it also depends on you service/guarantee contract. If you normally have a service contract where a technician will come to you but for some reasons that currently don't work you probably can keep your drive anyway etc. Also KYD extends to some other cases.

basch 5y ago
>"Keep Your Drive" is now a non-free (but not that expensive) "service upgrade". It's almost more of a donation in my experience. Don't pay it, remove the disk, no consequence. It's also a good idea to put the OEM ram back in the machine if youve upgraded. One of the few things they may balk at and return it unfixed.
- michaelhoffman 5y ago
  Put the OEM RAM back? Hard to do otherwise when it's soldered to the laptop.
  - ziml77 5y ago
    Well then you also couldn't have upgraded it which was a condition he specified for putting the OEM RAM back.
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      Clearly. But it's a complaint along similar lines of laptops being harder to work on.
- kelnos 5y ago
  In the case where you're sending it in for a repair under warranty, I imagine for some classes of problems the manufacturer could refuse warranty service if you've removed the drive, especially since most designs now make it really easy to accidentally damage something while doing that.

anshorei 5y ago

Same here with Tuxedo Computers, I had already removed the drive because that's standard procedure. If a repair shop ever asks me my password I'm just going to another one because that is to me a clear sign they're incompetent.

anshorei 5y ago
(to be absolutely clear: I recommend Tuxedo computers. They suggested I remove the harddrive when sending me shipping instructions, something I had already done, but I found it very reassuring they said so and hence recommend them to tech-illiterate family and friends as well)

dheera 5y ago

> I once sent in a ThinkPad for repair and Lenovo explicitly mentioned that I should remove any drives from the device before shipping it. I really think this should be the standard for fixing hardware issues. YES. THIS. I am in vehement disagreement with Apple soldering SSDs to motherboards for partially this reason (among others, including making data recovery much harder, and lack of user upgradeability). Apple fanboys all over the world will hate on me every single time saying "What if I told you that Apple just makes the best PC". Fuck that. I want a removeable SSD so repair technicians don't need the SSD to repair other parts of the PC.

hsbauauvhabzb 5y ago

I own about 6 thinkpads. I bought the other 5 after realising how much of a dream they are to open. So easy thst I could instruct a family member to remove the SSD over the phone if needed.