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This is one area where there are technological solutions to people problems. Namely, that currently an iOS device needs to be fully unlocked to be services but

This is one area where there are technological solutions to people problems. Namely, that currently an iOS device needs to be fully unlocked to be services but realistically there should be something between "service access" and "full unrestricted access to a customer's PII and app state." Keep in mind that in iOS root is rarely available, so even when servicing devices they're manipulating the OS via a restricted service interface that can only perform certain actions (e.g. wipe, re-flash, test different components, etc). I cannot access the original article, but I am hoping criminal charges were also utilized as this is unlawful in many states (and frankly should be national).

pradn 5y ago
There should also be audit logs recorded by the device and sent to the user's Apple account. So you can see which apps, screens, and data a service person used. This is a routine ask from companies to cloud providers, for example.
- davisr 5y ago
  Ah, yes, more surveillance is surely the answer.
  - CobaltFire 5y ago
    Of technicians accessing a device that is that personal and many people consider secure due to Apple's own marketing? Absolutely.
  - MikeDelta 5y ago
    Logging is not necessarily surveilance. It is about you seeing what they do with your phone.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - kergonath 5y ago
    It is not surveillance, it is transparency. IT support people are in a position of power where they have access to a lot of personal information, and the users should definitely know if there has been a data breach. And somebody getting access to things like bank records of home-made personal porn definitively is a breach. Ideally, they should not be in a situation where they can access any personal file without the owner being present.
  - Supermancho 5y ago
    > There should also be audit logs recorded by the device and sent to the user's Apple account. The recording of every app opening, every site, every click being sent to organizations is lamented normally, and then desired if put into the right narrative. This is part of the reason we got where we are.
    - TeMPOraL 5y ago
      Not really. The position is, and always has been: the vendor should not be entitled to data about what the user is doing with their device. The user is absolutely entitled to the data about how the device they own is being used, whether by themselves, someone else, or remotely by a third party.
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      Because you're removing the very obvious part that the problem is recording a user. A log of the repair process is not the same thing.
- gregoriol 5y ago
  This is not the answer. While it could be useful for legal action, it is not something that would help any regular user. The only way to help is to make it clear that no password shall ever be given to anyone.
  - pradn 5y ago
    It's not meant to be the only solution. Apple should lock things down for service people, certainly. On top of that, audit logs would offer peace of mind. There's no reason they couldn't be presented in a way that is easy to understand for a regular person.
- karagenit 5y ago
  This already exists, to some extent. You can see "screen time" data via the settings, which I think tracks what apps are launched and when. So it shouldn't be too difficult for Apple to make this a little more granular (such as specific pages within apps) and to display the data in a chronological fashion, like an audit log.
Ekaros 5y ago
Why shouldn't there be "service access" that is essentially only an OS with service tools. No access to storage, but would store diagnostic tools. It shouldn't even be very big these days...
baliex 5y ago
> there should be something between "service access" and "full unrestricted access to a customer's PII and app state." iOS has this in the form of apps that require Face ID to access them. Some fall back to your PIN if Face ID doesn't work but others do not, presumably a choice on the app developers behalf.
yosito 5y ago
> an iOS device needs to be fully unlocked to be serviced but realistically there should be something between "service access" and "full unrestricted access to a customer's PII and app state." This exists. Anyone who is security conscious should store all of their sensitive files and PII in an encrypted vault that only they hold they keys to. Realistically, most people don't have the vigilance to do this, and it's pretty hard to do it perfectly. But I highly recommend to everyone at least to install something like Cryptomator to secure their most private documents and information, so that no one else has access even if they gain access to your computer or cloud storage.
- g_sch 5y ago
  This seems like something that would be difficult to do on a mobile device such as an iOS or Android, which trains the user not to think about the filesystem at all. Is there a user-friendly mobile solution for this?
  - bellyfullofbac 5y ago
    I don't think there is a solution as yet, but phones nowadays already have full disk encryption, i.e. the bits stored on the "disk" are garbled, and they have to be read through the decryption layer that transforms the gabled bytes to my_butt.jpg (And well, it also encrypts that image the IM app wants to save, before writing it to disk). The decryption layer gets initialized with a key during the boot process of the phone (after you've entered your password and unlocked the key) and remains active until the phone is shut down. One way of using the above would be to allow "logout" of the main user and login of an e.g. repair user, on logout the decryption key would be erased from memory, and this way the repair user has no access to my_butt.jpg . Actually Android already has the concept of multiple users, and each user has their own data storage, so the can open their own Facebook or Tinder and have the phone be loading their personal profile. Not sure about things stored on disk, though, and AFAIK if a user can be root then s/he can read all the files on the mounted encrypted disk. So, the repair user would not have access to my_butt.jpg, but maybe they need access to an installed app? I guess 1 solution would be to have apps installed on a separate partition to data. Android has a system partition (I'm not familiar with iOS), so if the repair user just needs internal apps, that should be accessible from the system partition.

pradn 5y ago

There should also be audit logs recorded by the device and sent to the user's Apple account. So you can see which apps, screens, and data a service person used. This is a routine ask from companies to cloud providers, for example.

davisr 5y ago
Ah, yes, more surveillance is surely the answer.
- CobaltFire 5y ago
  Of technicians accessing a device that is that personal and many people consider secure due to Apple's own marketing? Absolutely.
- MikeDelta 5y ago
  Logging is not necessarily surveilance. It is about you seeing what they do with your phone.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- kergonath 5y ago
  It is not surveillance, it is transparency. IT support people are in a position of power where they have access to a lot of personal information, and the users should definitely know if there has been a data breach. And somebody getting access to things like bank records of home-made personal porn definitively is a breach. Ideally, they should not be in a situation where they can access any personal file without the owner being present.
- Supermancho 5y ago
  > There should also be audit logs recorded by the device and sent to the user's Apple account. The recording of every app opening, every site, every click being sent to organizations is lamented normally, and then desired if put into the right narrative. This is part of the reason we got where we are.
  - TeMPOraL 5y ago
    Not really. The position is, and always has been: the vendor should not be entitled to data about what the user is doing with their device. The user is absolutely entitled to the data about how the device they own is being used, whether by themselves, someone else, or remotely by a third party.
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    Because you're removing the very obvious part that the problem is recording a user. A log of the repair process is not the same thing.
gregoriol 5y ago
This is not the answer. While it could be useful for legal action, it is not something that would help any regular user. The only way to help is to make it clear that no password shall ever be given to anyone.
- pradn 5y ago
  It's not meant to be the only solution. Apple should lock things down for service people, certainly. On top of that, audit logs would offer peace of mind. There's no reason they couldn't be presented in a way that is easy to understand for a regular person.
karagenit 5y ago
This already exists, to some extent. You can see "screen time" data via the settings, which I think tracks what apps are launched and when. So it shouldn't be too difficult for Apple to make this a little more granular (such as specific pages within apps) and to display the data in a chronological fashion, like an audit log.

Ekaros 5y ago

Why shouldn't there be "service access" that is essentially only an OS with service tools. No access to storage, but would store diagnostic tools. It shouldn't even be very big these days...

baliex 5y ago

> there should be something between "service access" and "full unrestricted access to a customer's PII and app state." iOS has this in the form of apps that require Face ID to access them. Some fall back to your PIN if Face ID doesn't work but others do not, presumably a choice on the app developers behalf.

yosito 5y ago

> an iOS device needs to be fully unlocked to be serviced but realistically there should be something between "service access" and "full unrestricted access to a customer's PII and app state." This exists. Anyone who is security conscious should store all of their sensitive files and PII in an encrypted vault that only they hold they keys to. Realistically, most people don't have the vigilance to do this, and it's pretty hard to do it perfectly. But I highly recommend to everyone at least to install something like Cryptomator to secure their most private documents and information, so that no one else has access even if they gain access to your computer or cloud storage.

g_sch 5y ago
This seems like something that would be difficult to do on a mobile device such as an iOS or Android, which trains the user not to think about the filesystem at all. Is there a user-friendly mobile solution for this?
- bellyfullofbac 5y ago
  I don't think there is a solution as yet, but phones nowadays already have full disk encryption, i.e. the bits stored on the "disk" are garbled, and they have to be read through the decryption layer that transforms the gabled bytes to my_butt.jpg (And well, it also encrypts that image the IM app wants to save, before writing it to disk). The decryption layer gets initialized with a key during the boot process of the phone (after you've entered your password and unlocked the key) and remains active until the phone is shut down. One way of using the above would be to allow "logout" of the main user and login of an e.g. repair user, on logout the decryption key would be erased from memory, and this way the repair user has no access to my_butt.jpg . Actually Android already has the concept of multiple users, and each user has their own data storage, so the can open their own Facebook or Tinder and have the phone be loading their personal profile. Not sure about things stored on disk, though, and AFAIK if a user can be root then s/he can read all the files on the mounted encrypted disk. So, the repair user would not have access to my_butt.jpg, but maybe they need access to an installed app? I guess 1 solution would be to have apps installed on a separate partition to data. Android has a system partition (I'm not familiar with iOS), so if the repair user just needs internal apps, that should be accessible from the system partition.