18 ms·
What is their coast guard up to?
by mongol 5y ago
What is their coast guard up to?
- kilroy123 5y agoProbably not much. The country has been going through an very bad financial crisis. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-argentina-economy-gdp-idUSKBN2BF1DT https://www.reuters.com/article/us-argentina-economy-gdp-idU...
- Freestyler_3 5y agolooks like an opportunity to make money and create jobs
- mgarciaisaia 5y ago> The country has been going through an very bad financial crisis. It doesn't matter when you read this.
- est 5y agoThe fleet vanishes in International waters outside the EEZ.
- rob74 5y agoYeah, but if a hobby pilot can fly over the area and find dozens of ships, the Navy/Coast Guard could do the same - send out an airplane to check, and then send a few boats over if it finds something?
- toomuchtodo 5y agoDrones are perfect for this use case, as they have long loiter abilities at higher altitudes. Low single digit Global Hawk fleets can provide high availability over large amounts of geography.
- rafale 5y agoI wonder if commercial satellite photography can do the job during night time.
- touisteur 5y agoProbably best for the job at night would be SAR? A bit more costly than photography though I guess... Coastal radar, with range up to 100 Nmi might also do the job. But what's the use if you're not sending in the cavalry?
- dolmen 5y agoIt does. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27414962 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27414962
- rdtwo 5y agoPerfect use cause for automated killer drones
- Stranger43 5y agoProblem is that over engineered stuff like the global hawk actually have an higher pr hour cost then a converted business jet which is what most countries use.
- hadlock 5y agoRadar on an oceanic buoy is probably more efficient. Ocean buoys are giant metal spheres with some concrete ballast to add stability, attached via steel cable to an old train freight car used as an anchor. You can throw a couple hundred watts of solar and electronics on there no problem. There's hundreds of these things scattered about in the ocean for oceanic research/weather forecasting, not a new technology. Modern, consumer-grade solid state radar ($1200, off the shelf at Amazon or West Marine, google "4G radar") can pick up seagulls sitting on the water at 500 feet, or track a tiny ski 4 person boat at 10 miles. Before you ask, no, there is no such thing as a stealth radar fishing boat.
- yourapostasy 5y ago> Before you ask, no, there is no such thing as a stealth radar fishing boat. China: "Hold my píjiŭ." We're living out a Neal Stephenson novel.
- nradov 5y agoWe're talking about a vast area of ocean. Each buoy would only be able to monitor a small circle. There are limits to anchoring depth so they can usually only be used close to score. And marine electronics require frequent maintenance due to the harsh environment.
- hadlock 5y agoOn page 42 they talk about two different mooring systems for buoys up to 6000m in depth. Average ocean depth is approx 3000m. Marine electronics are considerably more robust than you give them credit. All my consumer grade electronics on my boat were installed in 2001 and with the exception of one LCD display are all in perfect working order. https://library.wmo.int/doc_num.php?explnum_id=7053 https://library.wmo.int/doc_num.php?explnum_id=7053
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- potiuper 5y agoMonroe doctrine implies the US navy has ownership too.
- everybodyknows 5y agoUS navy does not "own" Argentine waters. Maybe US could help Argentina enforce its fishing rights, in return for a lease of port space. The sort of win-win arrangement that builds mutual good will.
- adolph 5y agoWould the benefit of potentially decreased fishing outweigh the cost to the current gov't of pissing off the CCP?
- Jeff_Brown 5y agoGood question. How much leverage does China have over Argentina? It seems unlikely that Argentina exports much to China. It surely imports a lot but China doesn't seem to punish anyone by limiting its own exports.
- huntertwo 5y agohttps://tradingeconomics.com/argentina/exports-by-country https://tradingeconomics.com/argentina/exports-by-country China accounts for 11% of Argentina’s exports. I’d imagine a lot of it is soy and maybe lithium.
- Jeff_Brown 5y agoWow! And most of that is agriculture. And perhaps ironically, about 6% of Argentine exports to China are "Fish, crustaceans, molluscs, aquatics invertebrates". The World Bank says[2] that exports make up 14.25% of Argentine GDP. Assuming no substitution, if China cut off all Argentine exports, it would therefore reduce Argentine GDP by 1.56% -- a very big deal. There would of course be substitution, so that's a weak upper bound. And maybe an extremely weak one. According to this[3] (apparently Australian news outlet which I admit I've never heard of), China's trade sanctions against Australia following the latter's suggestion that the world look more into the origins of the coronavirus only reduced Australian exports to China by 2%. [1] https://tradingeconomics.com/argentina/exports/china https://tradingeconomics.com/argentina/exports/china [2] https://wits.worldbank.org/CountryProfile/en/ARG#:~:text=Argentina%20exports%20of%20goods%20and,percentage%20of%20GDP%20is%2016.42%25 https://wits.worldbank.org/CountryProfile/en/ARG#:~:text=Arg.... [3] https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/chinas-unofficial-ban-on-australian-products-fails-to-inflict-significant-damage/news-story/1858bb05a6030bfcad0bcf2a3aacef62#:~:text=Mr%20Rajah%20told%20The%20Australian,to%20less%20than%20%241%20billion https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/c....
- iagovar 5y agoI've been following the situation in Argentina for some years, and it seems that their military is tired of fighting with the political class for the appropriate resources. They seem to be technically competent, but the resource allocation is a joke.
- the_af 5y agoPiñeyro's own documentary, "Fuerza Aérea S.A." ("Air Force Inc") showed otherwise: our military is incompetent, reckless & corrupt. Their handling of commercial airports, until taken from them by the government, was so terrible and reckless you really didn't want to fly in Argentina. Any mistake was covered up because that's how our military is used to behaving. Also remember we Argentinians suffered a bloody dictatorship in the 70s, complete with illegal detentions, torture and executions, and while of course the military renews itself with new people, some sectors of it still haven't come to terms with their past (some remain who actually sympathize with the dictatorship or were involved in it). So no, what you're describing is not the full picture.
- touisteur 5y agoWas surprised to learn some years ago that in Brazil the military was responsible for civilian air traffic management. That seemed so wild at the time. Don't know if it's still the case...
- speeder 5y agoStill is the case. But here they take that job very seriously. I even saw a higher up personally helping once, I was in an open source tech conference, and a colonel was present to show the air force work using Ubuntu and Debian, while chatting with him he got a phone call about a radar issue, he immediately picked up a laptop and started to fire up some domestic made tech and started helping the operators directly. If the timing wasn't seemly so random I would think they did it on purpose just to show off the cool tech.
- 5y ago
- raverbashing 5y agoDon't assume they are able to get out of their own inertia to defend themselves on this. "Oh the ship disappeared? What are you going to do?" I can't help but be cynical in this situation. If their Coast Guard is as efficient as their ATC that's what you can expect.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- Tams80 5y agoWhat coast guard? You'd have better luck getting the British to send their OPV based in the Falklands over than get any meaningful response from what little of the Argentine armed forces or other authorities have.
- baybal2 5y agoI will surprise you, even USA has a problem catching all Chinese fishing ships near Hawaii. There is simply that much of them. Chinese fishing fleet is world's biggest, and they have 1 gigaton a year steel output to make more.
- rafale 5y agoAt some point, the only option is to sink them and drop life jackets in the area.
- aww_dang 5y agoArgentine coast guard opens fire on Chinese fishing boat (2019) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3lkM4t8AaA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3lkM4t8AaA Argentina sinks Chinese fishing ship that entered restricted area(2016) >"The offending ship continued to maneuver in an attempt to cause a collision" (0:20) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00rMVee0R4c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00rMVee0R4c >Therefore, the concept of people's war was applied to the sea with fishermen and other nautical laborers being drafted into a maritime militia. >Most vessels are issued with navigation and communication equipment while some are also issued small arms. The communications systems can be used both for communication and espionage. Often fishermen supply their own vessels, however, there are also core contingents of the maritime militia who operate vessels fitted out for militia work instead of fishing; these vessels feature reinforced bows for ramming and high powered water cannons. The increasing sophistication of militia vessels' communication equipment is a double-edged sword for Chinese authorities. New equipment, as well as training in its use, has substantially improved command, control, and coordination of militia units. However, the vessels' resulting professionalism and sophisticated maneuvers make them more identifiable as government-sponsored actors, dampening their ability to function as a gray-zone force. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Armed_Forces_Maritime_Militia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Armed_Forces_Mariti... S. Korean Coast Guard fires machine gun in warning to illegal Chinese fishing boats >"They were surrounded and threatened by some 30 other fishing boats" (0:17) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42AWXEzcoFk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42AWXEzcoFk You don't need to look very far to find reports like this. There are too many incidents to list here.
- dghughes 5y agoCheck out the Turbot War when we in Canada sent Navy ships to confront Spanish fishing vessesls in international waters illegally overfishing. Spain and Germany also sent warships. But Ireland and the UK didnt (foreshadowing the biggest gripe of Brexit?) Turbot/halibut is a type of fish. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbot_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbot_War
- masklinn 5y agoInternational water is a somewhat different situation, this is within Argentina's exclusive economic zone. Also > But Ireland and the UK didnt Yes one can only wonder why the UK would side with Canada over the EU. > foreshadowing the biggest gripe of Brexit? Only the biggest nonense of the brexit nonsenses. Also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_Wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_Wars. In fact, the UK's hypocritical support of Canada in the conflict led Iceland to declare for Spain / the EU.
- touisteur 5y agoYou mean, Turbot is a delicious type of fish. I'd understand sending in the navy. Especially since it is (iirc) a fish that stays down near the 'ground' so to fish them properly you need some specific kind of equipment or you destroy ecosystems?
- mistrial9 5y agoI find this part so telling : ... domestic and foreign overfishing had taken its toll. In the end, stocks of cod in and around Canada's EEZ were severely depleted. Reluctant to act at a time of declining political popularity, the federal government was finally forced to take drastic action in 1992 and a total moratorium was declared indefinitely for the Northern Cod. The TAC for both the Canadian EEZ and NAFO regulated area was based on Canadian scientific advice. This turned out to be wrong and the Northern cod stock collapsed in 1992, and has never recovered.[5] [5] Rose, Alex (2008). Who Killed the Grand Banks?. Toronto: Wiley. pp. 53–71. ISBN 978-0-470-15387-1. http://www.aquatic.uoguelph.ca/human/policy/lawofthesea/caneez.htm http://www.aquatic.uoguelph.ca/human/policy/lawofthesea/cane...
- ralgozino 5y agoI can tell you about one thing that I didn't find mentioned. Argentina's Naval Prefecture is using a product called Galatea Watcher from Ascentio Technologies (they are the main contractor for Argentina's Space Agency and have developed the ground segment and done operations for them). This product does pretty much the same as in the article: it takes satellite imagery from several sources, does image processing and detection on them and cross-references it with AIS reports from vessels and alerts all the suspicious activity. One could see all the ships getting positioned just in the international border and then disappear by night. This is a well known issue. Disclaimer: I used to work for Ascentio.
- 7373737373 5y agoSo do these satellites only have RGB channels? What about infrared?