4 ms·

I was waiting for this response. As someone who doesn’t live in the city center, and has no easy means of mass transportation to get there, my response is: fine

• nicoburns 5y ago
  You could replace cars with public transport rather than just moving the cars. If you don't want to build too much infrastructure then buses and bus lanes work well.
  • alacombe 5y ago
    Very convenient to haul 60lb of stuff in public transport...
• lg 5y ago
  One thing to remember about NYC's crazy tolls and congestion pricing plans is that there are not many reasons why visitors should need to drive in. There's NJTransit, PATH, light rail to Hudson valley and CT, LIRR, Amtrak, so many regional bus routes and frequent shuttles to EWR and other popular places, where most of these have park-and-ride options. And then of course once in the city there are subway and buses. Other cities that want to copy the car-discouraging policies should think about what the alternatives are.
  • kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
    It was cheaper and faster for me to drive 25 miles into Manhattan than take the train in from a walkable station. Then getting back out doesn't have to be at the mercy of the train schedule which is often every two hours for the line in question.
• morsch 5y ago
  Park + ride at the outer edges of the city center. But most American cities are probably a lost cause.
• dsomers 5y ago
  Lol, have you been to the Midwest? In small and medium sized cites there downtowns are often dead, including the small city I grew up in. All of them easily accessible by car. Dead city centres in North America more have to do with the post war experiment of subsidizing inefficient sprawling car dependent suburbs. If you want to actually understand this read more from the advocacy group Strong Towns[0] they also have a great YouTube channel. Now compare small Midwest cities to small cities in the Netherlands like Leiden or Haarlem and you’ll see limiting traffic from downtowns has little to do with how well they do economically. [0] https://www.strongtowns.org/ https://www.strongtowns.org/
  • api 5y ago
    That’s not as true as it used to be, but I don’t disagree with the wider point.
    • dsomers 5y ago
      I agree it’s improving from the 90s, but when I go back to the Midwest from Western Europe, the difference is dramatic simply in the number of people downtown in public spaces for cites with the same population.
      • api 5y ago
        That’s an extreme comparison! I bet only a few US cities would approach what you see in Berlin or Paris.
        • dsomers 5y ago
          I’m not talking about Berlin or Paris. I’m taking about small European cities I’m familiar with that have vibrant walkable downtowns. Off the top of my head, Leiden Netherlands, Haarlem Netherlands, Peacara Italy, or Zug Switzerland.
  • frosted-flakes 5y ago
    If you ban cars they will be even more dead.
• teachingassist 5y ago
  > that’s how you kill a city center. This is a function of American cities being poorly designed. You are expected to arrive by car from the sprawling suburbs. I agree with your exceptions, NYC, Chicago: but I'd add, almost every city in Europe, such as the grandparent was talking about. If this poor design is killed, hopefully something better can arise.
• pharmakom 5y ago
  Honestly, your money is not worth the congestion, noise and air pollution it requires. It’s a real shame your locality does not provide good rail connections.
• disantlor 5y ago
  homelessness is a big issue in NYC, it doesn’t seem clear to me that cars have much to do with it, compared to, say, lack of affordable housing. perhaps we could reclaim all the parking space to build more housing
• mschuetz 5y ago
  > As someone who doesn’t live in the city center, and has no easy means of mass transportation to get there, my response is: fine I just won’t go then. You lose my money. The bussiest city centers tend to be the least car and most pedestrian friendly ones. Park the car at the border of the center, then walk into the center.
  • jakubp 5y ago
    When you say "then walk into the center", you do realize you are talking about a (edit) 20-30 minute walk one-way. A car could cut that in 2 minutes. In my lifetime I was a driver in a city where it took exactly 5 minutes door-to-door from my home to ANY location in the city (at night). During the day it was maybe 8 minutes. Then some years went by. I now live in a city where at night it's 20 minutes, and during the day it's 45-60 minutes. From 5/8 minutes to 20/45-60 minutes. It's the same city. Things change, I get it. It just feels like things are getting worse and worse and yeah, it elicits serious questions like "is this going to be my last car, ever?" etc. :)
    • aliasEli 5y ago
      Don't you ever use public transportation? Most larger European cities have quite acceptable transportation. Also one of the reasons it takes longer is probably that there far more cars on the road and everybody is using their car even for short trips.
• b3morales 5y ago
  > In the vast majority of the rest of the US The cities in these places don't generally have the problems that the GP was talking about: the streets are mostly planned and overall car-friendly, and if you miss one turn there's likely a close opportunity to correct your route.
• dionidium 5y ago
  This is what mid-sized American cities have been saying for about 75 years, most of which adopted this plan with zeal. And it's been a total failure. It turns out you can't save Downtown by making it easier for suburbanites to get there. Whatever you think of that approach from first principles, the evidence at this point is overwhelming. It does not work.
  • eyelidlessness 5y ago
    Moreover, suburbanites largely don't want to visit the city, they either do by necessity or for special occasions like a big game or a designated social event. I see this in Seattle so much. People complain about their version of what they think my city is, swarm in for a big football game or whatever and have a great time once every few months, then swarm out to complain more about a city they’re not even in