6 ms·

America should prioritize legal workers. Expel all of the illegal immigrants and force corporations to step up and pay livable wages.

imtringued 5y ago
Or just legalize them so they can ask for higher wages.
chillwaves 5y ago
Expel the illegal immigrants? How? Seems easier to just put real penalties for corporations that exploit unauthorized workers.
- anovikov 5y ago
  How about just starting to check papers in the streets and immediately detain and deport the illegals? What's hard about it? It's done here in Europe - you have very few illegals (some legal refugees who at times get annoying, but yet, they are all accounted for).
  - satyrnein 5y ago
    Thankfully, it is perfectly legal for a citizen to walk down the street in America without carrying any papers, so not having any papers does not prove anything.
    - Judgmentality 5y ago
      However, it is perfectly normal for a police officer to pick up a person just for walking down the street in America without carrying any papers, and once that person is held for 48 hours (which they can do without filing any charges) ICE can easily come and deport somebody.
      - anovikov 5y ago
        And i wonder why isn't it just used for it's purpose: quickly find and deport any undocumented migrant. If their origin country can't be established or refuses to accept them, just lock them up in gulags and populate some public database with photos, fingerprints etc. - until someone picks them up to take away e.g. relatives. Put their fingerprints into database for life, repeat offence just means gulag until too old to reoffend again. Prison population too high? Fix this "supply side", build much much bigger, much cheaper gulags than today's fancy, small prisons - U.S. has a warm climate, that won't be hard or expensive or too torturous - and make sure criminals and delinquents know that these will fit EVERYONE. Make them work (say build roads) to pay for that. And yes, U.S. needs a 24/7 physically defended border. Russia has it being a much poorer much sparser populated country with a much longer border, so U.S. can too. No "refugess", "asylum seekers" etc. You try to cross border without papers or outside of designated crossing points - you get a bullet.
        streetsheesh 5y ago
        > arguing for gulags OK boomer
- hellbannedguy 5y ago
  Or, require all employers to use E-Verify.gov Oh yea, raise the penalty for hiring illegial, or at least enforce the laws we alwready have. I'll probally get hammered for saying this here. HN crowd has this pollyannaish attitude towards problems that don't effect them, exception being Visa workers that are paid less than them, and the price of owning a home. I guess it's human nature?
everly 5y ago
Seems like just doing the part about forcing corporations to pay livable wages would be sufficient (not to mention actually feasible).
- Aunche 5y ago
  Only the people employed at a company get to decide whether or not a wage is livable, not you. Immigrants are naturally have lower expectations for standard of living and have families that live in much cheaper areas, so their interpretation of a livable wage is much lower.
  - everly 5y ago
    I don’t think I suggested that I get to decide if a wage is livable. And I guess I find it odd that you’ve, apparently, decided that all immigrants have lower expectations and standards of living. I take issue with the notion that immigrants inherently deserve less because of some perceived expectation of what is good enough for them based on where they came from.
    - Aunche 5y ago
      > I don’t think I suggested that I get to decide if a wage is livable. You are if you're implying that wages are somehow unlivable today. > And I guess I find it odd that you’ve, apparently, decided that all immigrants have lower expectations and standards of living. No. They decided that themselves when they decided to spend their summer in hundreds of miles away from their family to pick strawberries for the summer to undercut domestic labor. Surely, they're intelligent enough to act according to their best interests. > I take issue with the notion that immigrants inherently deserve less because of some perceived expectation of what is good enough for them based on where they came from. I don't think they deserve less. Unlike GP, I'm pro immigration. I just pointing out the incompatibility between both demanding a "living wage" and laxer immigration. The price of labor is determined by supply and demand just as like anything else with a price. Low-skill immigrants consume less than the average resident, so they increase the supply of low-skilled labor much more than the demand.
chiefalchemist 5y ago
It's more complicated than that. Raising wages results in increased demands elsewhere (e.g., housing). Increased demand of a limited supply will naturally raise prices. Put another way, over the long term legislating significant wage increases without also creating incentives to also increase housing supply won't solve the true problem. Sure, you can move to areas with lower housing prices and commute, but the resources (time & money) to commute is a cost as well.

imtringued 5y ago

Or just legalize them so they can ask for higher wages.

chillwaves 5y ago

Expel the illegal immigrants? How? Seems easier to just put real penalties for corporations that exploit unauthorized workers.

anovikov 5y ago
How about just starting to check papers in the streets and immediately detain and deport the illegals? What's hard about it? It's done here in Europe - you have very few illegals (some legal refugees who at times get annoying, but yet, they are all accounted for).
- satyrnein 5y ago
  Thankfully, it is perfectly legal for a citizen to walk down the street in America without carrying any papers, so not having any papers does not prove anything.
  - Judgmentality 5y ago
    However, it is perfectly normal for a police officer to pick up a person just for walking down the street in America without carrying any papers, and once that person is held for 48 hours (which they can do without filing any charges) ICE can easily come and deport somebody.
    - anovikov 5y ago
      And i wonder why isn't it just used for it's purpose: quickly find and deport any undocumented migrant. If their origin country can't be established or refuses to accept them, just lock them up in gulags and populate some public database with photos, fingerprints etc. - until someone picks them up to take away e.g. relatives. Put their fingerprints into database for life, repeat offence just means gulag until too old to reoffend again. Prison population too high? Fix this "supply side", build much much bigger, much cheaper gulags than today's fancy, small prisons - U.S. has a warm climate, that won't be hard or expensive or too torturous - and make sure criminals and delinquents know that these will fit EVERYONE. Make them work (say build roads) to pay for that. And yes, U.S. needs a 24/7 physically defended border. Russia has it being a much poorer much sparser populated country with a much longer border, so U.S. can too. No "refugess", "asylum seekers" etc. You try to cross border without papers or outside of designated crossing points - you get a bullet.
      - streetsheesh 5y ago
        > arguing for gulags OK boomer
hellbannedguy 5y ago
Or, require all employers to use E-Verify.gov Oh yea, raise the penalty for hiring illegial, or at least enforce the laws we alwready have. I'll probally get hammered for saying this here. HN crowd has this pollyannaish attitude towards problems that don't effect them, exception being Visa workers that are paid less than them, and the price of owning a home. I guess it's human nature?

everly 5y ago

Seems like just doing the part about forcing corporations to pay livable wages would be sufficient (not to mention actually feasible).

Aunche 5y ago
Only the people employed at a company get to decide whether or not a wage is livable, not you. Immigrants are naturally have lower expectations for standard of living and have families that live in much cheaper areas, so their interpretation of a livable wage is much lower.
- everly 5y ago
  I don’t think I suggested that I get to decide if a wage is livable. And I guess I find it odd that you’ve, apparently, decided that all immigrants have lower expectations and standards of living. I take issue with the notion that immigrants inherently deserve less because of some perceived expectation of what is good enough for them based on where they came from.
  - Aunche 5y ago
    > I don’t think I suggested that I get to decide if a wage is livable. You are if you're implying that wages are somehow unlivable today. > And I guess I find it odd that you’ve, apparently, decided that all immigrants have lower expectations and standards of living. No. They decided that themselves when they decided to spend their summer in hundreds of miles away from their family to pick strawberries for the summer to undercut domestic labor. Surely, they're intelligent enough to act according to their best interests. > I take issue with the notion that immigrants inherently deserve less because of some perceived expectation of what is good enough for them based on where they came from. I don't think they deserve less. Unlike GP, I'm pro immigration. I just pointing out the incompatibility between both demanding a "living wage" and laxer immigration. The price of labor is determined by supply and demand just as like anything else with a price. Low-skill immigrants consume less than the average resident, so they increase the supply of low-skilled labor much more than the demand.

chiefalchemist 5y ago

It's more complicated than that. Raising wages results in increased demands elsewhere (e.g., housing). Increased demand of a limited supply will naturally raise prices. Put another way, over the long term legislating significant wage increases without also creating incentives to also increase housing supply won't solve the true problem. Sure, you can move to areas with lower housing prices and commute, but the resources (time & money) to commute is a cost as well.