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I'm the person this original tweet was about. None of you know any of the internal details but what I can state is that Paul has no idea what he's talking abou

I'm the person this original tweet was about. None of you know any of the internal details but what I can state is that Paul has no idea what he's talking about and later admits to the fact I wasn't lying. Here's the order of events: 1. I went to a neighborhood clinic in Oakland, CA that's literally next door to my house, I can see the church from my window. Paul lives in NYC which is on the opposite end of the country. 2. I asked them about eligibility and told them I don't clear CA guidelines. They told me it's first come, first served with an ID showing I am 18+. 3. I showed up the next day, waited in line for 4 hours then got jabbed. 4. Posted it in an internal forum for other founders. 5. A few people had issues so raised them which I addressed but YC still took down the post within the day. 6. I appealed but YC still held their decision as final. Outcome: YC founder came with his aunt, uncle, and mom all over 65 to get jabbed who didn't know about the vaccine site. --- Paul ends up tweeting about it and making a huge deal around something he has no idea about. He gets a bunch of people on Twitter upset about something they don't know about. Outcome: Internet rage.

throwkeep 5y ago
> Paul ends up tweeting about it and making a huge deal around something he has no idea about. He gets a bunch of people on Twitter upset about something they don't know about. I gave him the benefit of doubt, but should have been more skeptical upon seeing pronouns in bio. It's a curiously predictive heuristic. For whatever reason, pronoun people tend to be particularly good at generating internet drama.
- dcra 5y ago
  Yeah, or we want to be treated like humans. Find a better heuristic.
  - throwkeep 5y ago
    That exaggerated oppression claim only reinforces the heuristic. In reality, approximately 99% of the time people use the correct pronouns based on name and appearance. The remaining rare cases consist of honest mistakes (that can be politely corrected) or bullies (who the rest of us already denounce).
boublepop 5y ago
So did you or didn’t you instruct people to lie about their profession in order to get vaccinated? I’m not making an accusation here, but I’m genuinely curious if that point is a blatant lie or something you feel is ok to omit in your description of events?
hmsimha 5y ago
For people like me who read the linked twitter thread before reading the comments (admittedly guilty of getting outraged before hearing both sides): There is an "unvote" button underneath the headline.
Permit 5y ago
Your account may very well be biased but it astonishes me how many HN commenters are willing to chime in while knowing next to nothing about what actually took place. I know next to nothing and as such would typically hesitate to comment. Others appear to know next to nothing and appear very interested in sharing their opinions here, and I don’t quite understand why...
- dwaltrip 5y ago
  > Others appear to know next to nothing and appear very interested in sharing their opinions The modern internet in a nutshell. Of course, this is nothing new. We just now have more powerful tools for doing it. I wish saying "I don't know" or "I'm not sure but I'd like to learn more about that" was more widely valued.
  - andrew_ 5y ago
    I don't know anything about the situation, but what is evident is this is some of the worst of Twitter on display, and why I shy away from the platform more often than not.
    - 0xbadcafebee 5y ago
      The same comments were made here on HN...
- thrwn_frthr_awy 5y ago
  When I worked at Apple I got to read a ton of comments on HN when features I worked on were released and so much of it just wasn't true. Even articles, blog posts, and news reports.
- kjs3 5y ago
  I assume by 'astonished' you mean 'totally not surprised'.
- hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
  I wish I could donate all of my karma as votes for this comment. I'm really astonished at how the dynamics of internet forums make so many feel like they must immediately pick a side, even when there is such little information and even when getting just a single side of the story. The worst part about this is that when more information does come to light, it's so rare to see an "oh wow, I really shouldn't have jumped to conclusions" apology. Instead, a lot of the time you see folks dig their heels in more, lest they actually have to admit they were wrong.
koolhaas 5y ago
Did the church site have to turn away elderly people, or other people who cleared CA guidelines, at the end of each day?
- k__ 5y ago
  Don't know about the state of vax in the USA, but here in Germany it's pretty chaotic. There are vax centers for priorized people and then every doc gets a bunch of vaccinations for their own patienst, which don't have to be priorized. Now, some vax centers are temporarily closed, because they run out of vaccinations, so priorized groups cant get vaccinated anymore. But if you find some doc somewhere, who still got a few jabs left, you can vaccinated there even if you aren't priorized.
  - hef19898 5y ago
    Yep, Germany screwed up the whole supply management. Just saw a projection that Germany will reach 80% first vaccinations in July. Which was kind of expected, initial orders as of January were enough to get that in June/July. I guess we will one month behind everyone else in the EU, so I think July won't be that far off. In August we will see headlines complaining about all the over ordering of vaccines and what to do with it. I'd love to write a case study about that one day. Or maybe not.
- drbacon 5y ago
  I am also super interested in the answer to this particular question. I know a lot of people who waited for surplus/standby shots at the end of the day outside clinics in SF. Anecdotally, a lot of my coworkers got early vaccines that way. As a non-essential worker with no risk factors, I felt that my contribution to the pandemic was to stay home and wait until my turn. I did, by the way, wait until the vaccine was generally available before scheduling. Before general availability, most of my friends my age (mid-30s) had been vaccinated by stretching the truth. I felt like the idiot, and had a fair amount of resentment. I wonder about the surplus doses, though. Did a substantial culture of seeking out unused doses result in outcomes that were net positive from a utilitarian point of view? It's unclear to me how much "line cutting" this resulted in. Clearly, stretching the truth to get a dose ahead of others is selfish at least. Back in March, I assume that there were plenty of people in need that didn't/couldn't get an appointment that needed a shot more than YCombinator founders. This wasn't stretching the truth though, just exploitation of a loophole and small surpluses of a limited resource. In the end, I think the morality hinges on your question, koolhaas. To what extent did standby shots interfere with mitigating the health crisis. Is that what dasickis was doing? Was dasickis aware of opportunity cost of taking that shot? Did he even care? https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/03/13/covid-your-bay-area-guide-to-legitimately-score-a-vaccine-even-if-youre-not-eligible-yet/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/03/13/covid-your-bay-area-g...
KyleBerezin 5y ago
I don't agree with this comment, but we should probably upvote it for credible argument's sake.
- ericjang 5y ago
  I agree with this comment and upvoted it for credible argument's sake
  - KyleBerezin 5y ago
    I read more about the location he got his shot from. He is most likely right that he did nothing wrong. Idk anything about the other person who supposedly bragged about skipping in line, but seeing as 1 of his 2 examples was incorrect, I'm going to assume the 2nd one is untrue too until I see something more than hearsay.
    - CRConrad 5y ago
      Judging from this poster, he is most likely not right: https://twitter.com/SarahBelleLin/status/1370071520953835520 https://twitter.com/SarahBelleLin/status/1370071520953835520
Hamuko 5y ago
>YC founder came with his aunt, uncle, and mom all over 65 to get jabbed who didn't know about the vaccine site. Did this YC founder and his aunt, uncle and mom also live in the neighbourhood? Also, I'm curious about those "issues" if you were just intending to help out people in your neighbourhood? What issues were there with your post?
- csomar 5y ago
  I think they didn't have residency requirements. (just being 18+ and you are eligible).
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
axiosgunnar 5y ago
Why would people have issues with you simply posting you...went and got a jab? Is there more to the story? Sorry genuinely curious, not trying to put fuel on the fire
- ignoramous 5y ago
  > Why would people have issues with you simply posting you...went and got a jab? Is there more to the story? From the tweets now deleted, looks like the internal bookface post in question wasn't all that popular and got roundly criticized. At least it got 0 upvotes and every single response told him he was wrong. Doesn't seem like he learned his lesson, however it's clear almost nobody else approves of this mentality. (I think the first one was way worse; he was advocating lying.) Seems like there's definitely more to it? https://archive.is/6t7AG https://archive.is/6t7AG
  - 1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago
    Interesting. I can still see these "deleted" tweets when I retrieve JSON from the command line. I do not like using Twitter's user interface, especially the way it uses Javascript, so I wrote a quick shell script called 1.sh to read Twitter without using a graphical web browser. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27056734 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27056734 To read the JSON, I have been experimenting with json_reformat from https://github.com/lloyd/yajl https://github.com/lloyd/yajl 1.sh > 1.json sed -n /{\"data\"/p 1.json|json_reformat|sed -n -e 's/ *//' \ -e '/created_at/p;/sation_id_str/p;/full_text/p'|grep -B2 full_text|less
- flunhat 5y ago
  This was back in March when vaccine demand outstripped supply & ensuring "fair access" to the vaccine was a big concern. It seems almost quaint now that we have the opposite problem. (FWIW I think Paul's reaction was pretty unreasonable, bordering on hysterical).
- hn8788 5y ago
  From what they wrote, it looks like they probably said something along the lines of "Hey, here's a location where they don't care if you are in an at risk group, you can just show up and get your vaccine." Considering it was back in March, people probably found it wrong to be advertising that to a bunch of people who are probably healthy and well-off, instead of people who actually needed the vaccine. I'm not going to make any judgements about it though, considering I don't know anything about how things were in California. In Maryland they had county level registrations that went through tiers of at risk groups, plus state-wide vaccination sites that were open to anyone, so I ended up getting my vaccination a few weeks before I would have if I'd waited for "my turn" with the county vaccination program.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
walrus01 5y ago
> 2. I asked them about eligibility and told them I don't clear CA guidelines. They told me it's first come, first served with an ID showing I am 18+. There are a number of 'special' vaccination sites in the USA which are indeed vaccinating first come, first served people without going through any special qualifications/eligibility check. For instance FEMA was, and still is, running a mass vaccination site in Yakima, WA which was a massive hot spot of infections in WA state. They quite specifically told the media that they were focused on getting "shots into arms" and not spending a lot of time on each person checking residency documents. https://www.google.com/search?q=yakima+wa+vaccination+site+fema https://www.google.com/search?q=yakima+wa+vaccination+site+f... Although by the time it opened it was also possible for most people in the Seattle metro area to get a shot without a very long wait, I do know a few people who drove over there and quite clearly showed their drivers license for ID, and got vaccinated without violating any policy or lying about anything whatsoever.
- steve_adams_86 5y ago
  > There are a number of 'special' vaccination sites in the USA which are indeed vaccinating first come, first served people Same here in Canada. Some private clinics have been offering FCFS vaccines to eligible age groups for some time now. I assumed the US must be the same and wondered what the outrage is here. I got messages from people encouraging me to do the same.
- random314 5y ago
  However these vaccination sites were set up specifically for underserved communities. https://www.fema.gov/press-release/20210326/california-fema-complete-vaccine-mission-oakland-los-angeles-april-11 https://www.fema.gov/press-release/20210326/california-fema-... It also doesn't help that this person keeps changing his story all the time. On Twitter he claims that joe Biden announced that all adults are eligible for vaccination in March. This is patently false.
  - jonny_eh 5y ago
    Link to that tweet?
bodono 5y ago
Can you post your original message to the forum here too? That way we can know for sure what was said precisely, otherwise it's just he-said / he-said.
- kordlessagain 5y ago
  Why is it we need to discuss this more? It’s not technical, or interesting. Just a bunch of people gossiping and trying to judge!!
  - teddyh 5y ago
    From the HN guidelines: “Please don't complain that a submission is inappropriate. If a story is spam or off-topic, flag it.”
  - gruez 5y ago
    Because people are interested and want to find out the truth? At the moment it's a he-said-she-said situation, with each side posting their own (probably biased) version of events.
    - pvg 5y ago
      Because it’s just gawking curiosity, not intellectual curiosity - the latter being what the site is ostensibly about
    - derefr 5y ago
      The person you're replying to is suggesting that everyone who's "interested and want to find out the truth" here should stop and re-evaluate what utility that gets them, vs what disutility that information-seeking gets the people involved. To put this another way: the paparazzi that chased Princess Diana to her death, did so because there was demand for tabloid journalism.
    - scrollaway 5y ago
      The people that invested in this affair that doesn't concern them? They need a new hobby. Maybe volunteering at their local vax site for a few weeks could do some actual good instead of trying to play detective just to feel good about themselves pretending they are contributing.
rdlecler1 5y ago
I don’t know when this occurred but a few months ago sites started having an oversupply problem and were taking people no questions asked. At that point the elderly and vulnerable had several months lead time and 95% of the people at the vaccination centers were 25-55. I was more outraged at the snitches rage. I personally don’t think there was a moral issue here at all.
random314 5y ago
This was a FEMA clinic for underserved communities in need Make what you want to about it. https://www.fema.gov/press-release/20210326/california-fema-complete-vaccine-mission-oakland-los-angeles-april-11 https://www.fema.gov/press-release/20210326/california-fema-...
fruityrudy 5y ago
Lol and Paul is probably already fully vaccinated over in NYC… Next he will be shouting at the Chinese breaking their laws for circumventing the great firewall by using proxies.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
kordlessagain 5y ago
Twitter is Internet rage defined.
- ed405 5y ago
  You mean HN is internet rage defined? Twitter is awesome.
  - marcos100 5y ago
    Totally! If your Twitter timeline is not awesome, it's your fault.
metaxis79 5y ago
This is really frustrating to me, I also got vaccinated at that clinic through the same mechanism - I live in the complex on the street a block away and perpendicular. I also had people complain at me, and I had to patiently ask them, "would you rather the doses expire"? It's really frustrating but I understand the confusion and also the general feeling of "unfairness", as everyone right-thinking is eager to get vaccinated if possible.
- kuschku 5y ago
  When I was a child I remember going to food banks. I remember the food bank having no eligibility checks whatsoever. I also remember a few rich people going there just to take advantage of it, and I remember days where we were so far back in line that we got nothing while the rich people walked out happily. That vaccination site isn't any different. Those vaccines were intended for poor, underdocumented, at risk populations. Your vaccination saved one life (yours), but cost many more. It's not any different from the days I went hungry due to egoists like you. Nowadays, I'm obviously in a different situation, but I still can't stand people with this "fuck you, got mine" mindset.
  - SyzygistSix 5y ago
    Apparently lots of vaccination sites were indeed different. Your food bank analogy would work if they were serving fresh food and could not give it all away, so invited any and all to come and eat. Which was the situation at many vaccination sites. Doses were going to waste if people did not use them. And when not enough people in the designated groups were showing up or making appointments at some sites, everyone was encouraged to come so the shots did not go to waste. That so many showed up after the general call for people is a marker of success. Not the one intended for initially, but better than shots going to waste.
gruez 5y ago
Biggar's accusation is that you "lied to skip the vaccine queue". In your comment implies that you didn't, but it wasn't stated explicitly. For the record, can you affirmatively deny that you haven't "lied to skip the vaccine queue"?
- random314 5y ago
  The yc founders commentary is highly unreliable. On Twitter he claimed that joe Biden declared that all adults are eligible for a vaccine in March. Hence he didn't skip the line. This is patently false. He has a different story here. I would take his claims with a huge helping of salt. All that we know is that he got vaccinated in March ahead of federal guidelines. Did he wait to obtain vaccines left over at the end of the day? Or did he enter a line meant to serve underserved communities. We cannot tell.
  - natch 5y ago
    I believe what are being thought of and judged by some (not you necessarily) as hard rules are actually just guidelines as you mentioned. And individual sites are encouraged to use their discretion in giving out available doses, when extra doses are available, to people who would otherwise not fit the guidelines. Because having doses go to waste is not desirable. So, people passing judgement may be being overly harsh. It’s hard to speak generally about it though because rules and guidelines vary from place to place.
    - Aeolun 5y ago
      It’s perfectly acceptable to do this thing (in theory), but if stories about it turn into he said/she said there is part of the context we are missing.
      - natch 5y ago
        Maybe the takeaway is that organizations may (fairly, imho) try to limit the toxicity when people initiate he said/she said accusations in public without having all the facts.
nomdep 5y ago
NYC has been offering vaccines for all international tourists for quite some time: https://twitter.com/nycgov/status/1390389905033994246 https://twitter.com/nycgov/status/1390389905033994246
- grzm 5y ago
  As others have pointed out, the event they're discussing happened in March.
- jkaplowitz 5y ago
  Not all. NY hasn't yet expanded eligibility to international residents, unlike some states like PA (other than Philadelphia) and TX which are okay vaccinating anyone of the right age regardless of country of residence. Source: https://covid19vaccine.health.ny.gov/ https://covid19vaccine.health.ny.gov/ "All individuals 12 years of age and older that reside in the United States are eligible to receive the vaccine." https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-vaccine-eligibility.page https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-vaccine-eligibi... used to mention this requirement but still links to the NY State COVID-19 Vaccine Form (seemingly hosted on S3!) https://forms.ny.gov/s3/vaccine https://forms.ny.gov/s3/vaccine that includes an attestation that the vaccine recipient "presently reside[s] in the United States". They aren't just excluding international tourists, either - lots of non-tourist international residents are still excluded from vaccination in NY. I'm an American citizen who currently lives outside the US, but I've spent most of my life living in NYC and am preparing to move back there with my wife once she gets her US immigrant visa. We recently visited my fully vaccinated parents, primarily as a family visit and mental health break, and with tourism kept to a minimum for safety reasons. When we got our first shots in late April, the rules were "NY residents only", so we each got our two doses in a relatively nearby, rural, and somewhat politically purplish part of PA that had plenty of spare shots and that didn't mind ID documents showing foreign residency. Even now we wouldn't qualify for getting our first dose in NYC, despite having a lot stronger ties to the area than tourists. I hope NY removes this last restriction some time soon: maybe together with its so-called "full reopening" on July 1, maybe when the Canada-US land border reopens to travelers who aren't fully vaccinated, or maybe when the geographical travel restrictions get dropped for foreigners coming from the EU/UK/China.
gabereiser 5y ago
When I lived in Denver a few months back, the mass-vaccination site of Coors Field was right behind my condo. I love to skateboard and OneWheel that lot (Coors Field lot C) and just rolled up in my OneWheel and a nurse asked if I was there for a vaccination. I said I wasn’t but that I also hadn’t been vaccinated. She directed me to the line and said “Well, go get yours”. At this time CO hadn’t opened up vaccines for everyone 18+ (they did two weeks later). While I understand the frustrations some people have with the fact their state has waiting lists and eligibility requirements still, I also believe we should be happy people are getting vaxed. No input on the drama here but I’m glad you made the decision to get vaxed and Paul should do his part to make sure he gets vaxed. Internet outrage isn’t a sustainable community builder unless you’re into conspiracies or cancel culture. Calling out others for doing their part (whether ethically or not) is missing the point. Get vaxed. So we can all move forward.
- hef19898 5y ago
  I am split on that. Waiting in line behind all those having prioritized appointments in order to catch surplus doses, fine. Lying to get such an appointment? Not cool. Generally, we shouldn't make such a fuss vaccination on social media, either way.
  - gabereiser 5y ago
    People lie. All the time. The Karen’s of the world. If you deceived in order to get vaxed and someone who desperately needs the vax couldn’t get one, I understand the anger. I’ve lost friends to covid. What I will say is life isn’t fair, crying about it after the fact doesn’t do anyone any justice. Focus on you and just go get vaxed. If you need to make an appointment, do it. If you need to walk up to a clinic, do it. The sooner we can get everyone vaxed the sooner we can return to normal. I’m not downplaying the issue, I’m simply redirecting energy into more positive outcomes. I have no say on the drama of whether they lied to get bumped to the front of the line or not. People lie to jump lines all the time. Hell, some people just cut them. Does it anger me personally, yes. Will it change the overall outcome, no. Get vaxed. Call your congressperson if you must, but get vaxed.
mbgerring 5y ago
So just so everyone has the full context: Oakland opened up its vaccination sites to more people on a shorter timeline than the rest of the state, in certain ZIP codes with disproportionately poor residents, in order to get vaccines to those disproportionately poor residents. I know this because this is how several of my friends who live in West Oakland got vaccinated ahead of the eligibility opening up in the rest of the state. Your post suggests that the result of your post on the YC message board is that people who did not live in those zip codes came to Oakland to take advantage of a program that was not meant for them (and please correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s what I’m seeing here). I think if you really want to exonerate yourself here, you should probably come clean about what kinds of objections were raised to your original post, because it is very plain to me how the kind of thing you’re describing could be seen by a reasonable person as unethical.
- Siira 5y ago
  > to take advantage of a program that was not meant for them What’s wrong with this? Our whole society operates like this, but it’s suddenly wrong for some small fries to “take advantage of the law” ?” Write your laws correctly, and don’t blame people for looking out for themselves using completely legal means.
  - mynameisvlad 5y ago
    There is a huge difference between something being legal and something being moral. What they did might have been legal, sure, but it sure as hell was not moral.
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    Attitudes like that is what's wrong with your society.
- Igelau 5y ago
  > the kind of thing you’re describing could be seen by a reasonable person as unethical False. A reasonable person would know that the shots don't last after they are thawed out. If someone skipped the appointment, the ethical thing to do is put it in the next warm body that's standing by rather than waste the shot. No one owes anyone any "coming clean" over encouraging others not to let those shots go to waste.
throwawayhdudue 5y ago
He’s probably just jealous of your whale fuckbot or whatever the hell it is you say you’re working on.
0xbadcafebee 5y ago
I was hoping someone would validate my suspicion that all of the people commenting without seeing any evidence were indulging in outrage porn.
mgh2 5y ago
Well, if Paul was mistaken, then he should have been informed- not kicked out of YC for a misunderstanding don’t you think? Sounds like abuse of power
- addicted 5y ago
  Yeah, I’m not gonna get particularly upset about either side doing something wrong at a time when there was a lot of confusion, lot of pressure, and frankly the correct moral decision isn’t all that clear. But that swings both ways, and it does not speak well that 1 side was penalized so heavily for it, irrespective of whether they were in the right or wrong. Of course, it’s even more egregious coming on the heels of a Ycombinator founder defending someone who did far far worse.
  - mgh2 5y ago
    I am not surprised this comment was buried to avoid scrutiny. Technocracy censorship is common these days
ryanobjc 5y ago
So I’m guessing this was that west Oakland pop up fema site. Encouraging people who did not live nearby to come there and get vaccinated is both against the letter and spirit of the “law” and the intention of the site. It’s a pretty scummy thing to do. Fuck you friend.
tzs 5y ago
Several posters in this reddit discussion [1] about that vaccination site corroborate dasickis' claims. It's still not clear why they were not sticking to whatever the current phase California was in at the time. I've seen a couple claims on that, both of which are believable. 1. The site was participating in a Federal vaccination program, not a state vaccination program. The state rollout phases only applied to state programs. 2. They didn't get enough people making appointments to use up their vaccine allotment. When that happened (or when people made but didn't keep appointments) sites were allowed to give the leftover vaccine out first come first served to anyone who met the requirements of the FDA emergency authorization for the vaccine they were using. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/oakland/comments/m4bqx9/a_west_oakland_church_hosted_a_vaccine_clinic_for/ https://www.reddit.com/r/oakland/comments/m4bqx9/a_west_oakl...
pdonis 5y ago
> 4. Posted it in an internal forum for other founders. Why? That seems to be the key question and I don't see an answer to it anywhere in this discussion.
fuckyah 5y ago
Pretty stupid to take this experimental vaxx!
dasickis 5y ago
Since most of these self-righteous comments below still have no idea what they're talking about. The site was for overflow of vaccines that were going unused & being thrown out. The Oakland Coliseum is one of these mega-sites. So many of you don't understand the on-the-ground realities of the communities you're speaking of where I live. I see my neighbors and when FEMA is running these sites they know their goals. It's not unethical to follow the guidelines and get jabbed. Also the line was most exclusively healthy adults coming in from all around California. Clearly I didn't invite 800 people myself from a deleted post on an internal forum. Also on the Monday before the FEMA agents were telling me they had less people than vaccines, Tuesday they barely covered the people with vaccines, and Wednesday (when I got it) onwards they had slightly more demand when they asked people to tell their friends. It's up to governments to enforce rules around their clinics instead of moral crusaders that live across the country with no on-the-ground experience to tweet an internal post to generate outrage. Here are articles around why there was so few people getting vaccinated in our area and why FEMA requested us ask our friends to show up. "COVID-19 Vaccination Hesitancy in the United States: A Rapid National Assessment " - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7778842/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7778842/ "Addressing Justified Vaccine Hesitancy in the Black Community " - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8009077/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8009077/
- an_opabinia 5y ago
  You know you're in a bad place when you're engaging some "petty drama" by invoking generalizations about the "Black Community."
  - McFluff 5y ago
    Where’d he do that? Honestly don’t see it. He said he understand the realities of how bad covid is the that area and the areas around it because he lives there. Then that it was within the guidelines for anyone from around the area to be able to get vaccinated at the site. While some days there was less people than vaccinates ready to be used along with days where it was busier. People in my city went to different neighborhoods where vaccines were available for them too. To put it perspective say there was a vaccine site in west Harlem with plenty of vaccines while the surrounding areas didn’t. People from west Harlem, Washington heights, all the ones surrounding that, the neighborhoods below 125th, the one that encompasses Columbia, etc... to try to get vaccinated as soon as they can. Pretty much everyone who’s working class in the city saw how bad covid hit here and in other major cities . Those who want a vaccine should get it as soon as they can, period.
towergratis 5y ago
No matter how you try to present it, you know very well that you were not eligible, and you still went ahead and skipped the line. You are a scumbag.
chasd00 5y ago
This whole thing is about a COVID shot!? Yeah petty on all sides sounds about right to me.
myWindoonn 5y ago
You failed a basic ethical test: Can you wait until the needy have had their turn? The answer seems to be that no, you cannot. I recognize that YC views this as a positive trait in founders, but I hope that you recognize that the vast majority of folks view it as a negative.
jollybean 5y ago
As it is presented it does not seem controversial. If someone is not misrepresenting themselves, and they are following the rules of the site/clinic then there's no concern here.
ch33zer 5y ago
FWIW: Early on California had a no leftover doses policy. But what do you do when you have more vaccines than eligible people? You lower the eligibility requirements. This probably wasn't official policy but it was required of vaccination site runners to comply with the policy, so as they got towards the end of the day and they still had doses leftover they probably started jabbing anyone who walked in. I don't know what the consequences were from having leftover doses, but they were severe enough that some sites started doing this kind of thing.
sweis 5y ago
For context, this site was at Mt. Zion Missionary Baptist Church in West Oakland. It was intentionally located there to target the local underserved communities. At the time, California was in phases 1A and 1B. This was intended for elderly and essential workers. There was misinformation that it was first-come, first-serve to anyone who wanted it. I looked into it at the time and it was easy to verify that this was not true. The CA State website, the church's fliers, and their help line were all clear. Here's an example clearly listing who was eligible: https://twitter.com/SarahBelleLin/status/1370071520953835520?s=20 https://twitter.com/SarahBelleLin/status/1370071520953835520... They intentionally did not check eligibility to avoid putting barriers up for high risk people. It was effectively an honor system. This site ended up being oversubscribed and most doses went to people outside the targeted area or demographic: https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/article/A-West-Oakland-church-hosted-a-vaccine-clinic-for-16022941.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/article/A-West-Oakland-chu...
xtracto 5y ago
It baffles me how people get outraged when other people get vaccinated out of "order" . Here in Mexico there's a lot of ruckus because of people going to Texas to get vaccine. Or when doctors vaccinated themselves and their families. My thought is... when it comes to vaccines. It doesn't matter who goes first and who goes later. The fact that someone (anyone) is vaccinated helps us all. I still dont have the vaccine and will get it later. But I already feel safer with all the people that have been vaccinated. Theres no way people can do wrong!!
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- beiller 5y ago
  I think, assuming the vaccine is effective, vaccination only one group like what is happening in a small set of countries, will have a negative effect on the goal of eliminating a virus (is this the goal?). Supposedly allowing the virus to thrive and mutate in a subset of humans would make vaccines overall less effective at completely extinguishing a disease. But case by case has a negligit effect on national disparity, but socially it seems unacceptable.

throwkeep 5y ago

> Paul ends up tweeting about it and making a huge deal around something he has no idea about. He gets a bunch of people on Twitter upset about something they don't know about. I gave him the benefit of doubt, but should have been more skeptical upon seeing pronouns in bio. It's a curiously predictive heuristic. For whatever reason, pronoun people tend to be particularly good at generating internet drama.

dcra 5y ago
Yeah, or we want to be treated like humans. Find a better heuristic.
- throwkeep 5y ago
  That exaggerated oppression claim only reinforces the heuristic. In reality, approximately 99% of the time people use the correct pronouns based on name and appearance. The remaining rare cases consist of honest mistakes (that can be politely corrected) or bullies (who the rest of us already denounce).

boublepop 5y ago

So did you or didn’t you instruct people to lie about their profession in order to get vaccinated? I’m not making an accusation here, but I’m genuinely curious if that point is a blatant lie or something you feel is ok to omit in your description of events?

hmsimha 5y ago

For people like me who read the linked twitter thread before reading the comments (admittedly guilty of getting outraged before hearing both sides): There is an "unvote" button underneath the headline.

Permit 5y ago

Your account may very well be biased but it astonishes me how many HN commenters are willing to chime in while knowing next to nothing about what actually took place. I know next to nothing and as such would typically hesitate to comment. Others appear to know next to nothing and appear very interested in sharing their opinions here, and I don’t quite understand why...

dwaltrip 5y ago
> Others appear to know next to nothing and appear very interested in sharing their opinions The modern internet in a nutshell. Of course, this is nothing new. We just now have more powerful tools for doing it. I wish saying "I don't know" or "I'm not sure but I'd like to learn more about that" was more widely valued.
- andrew_ 5y ago
  I don't know anything about the situation, but what is evident is this is some of the worst of Twitter on display, and why I shy away from the platform more often than not.
  - 0xbadcafebee 5y ago
    The same comments were made here on HN...
thrwn_frthr_awy 5y ago
When I worked at Apple I got to read a ton of comments on HN when features I worked on were released and so much of it just wasn't true. Even articles, blog posts, and news reports.
kjs3 5y ago
I assume by 'astonished' you mean 'totally not surprised'.
hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
I wish I could donate all of my karma as votes for this comment. I'm really astonished at how the dynamics of internet forums make so many feel like they must immediately pick a side, even when there is such little information and even when getting just a single side of the story. The worst part about this is that when more information does come to light, it's so rare to see an "oh wow, I really shouldn't have jumped to conclusions" apology. Instead, a lot of the time you see folks dig their heels in more, lest they actually have to admit they were wrong.

koolhaas 5y ago

Did the church site have to turn away elderly people, or other people who cleared CA guidelines, at the end of each day?

k__ 5y ago
Don't know about the state of vax in the USA, but here in Germany it's pretty chaotic. There are vax centers for priorized people and then every doc gets a bunch of vaccinations for their own patienst, which don't have to be priorized. Now, some vax centers are temporarily closed, because they run out of vaccinations, so priorized groups cant get vaccinated anymore. But if you find some doc somewhere, who still got a few jabs left, you can vaccinated there even if you aren't priorized.
- hef19898 5y ago
  Yep, Germany screwed up the whole supply management. Just saw a projection that Germany will reach 80% first vaccinations in July. Which was kind of expected, initial orders as of January were enough to get that in June/July. I guess we will one month behind everyone else in the EU, so I think July won't be that far off. In August we will see headlines complaining about all the over ordering of vaccines and what to do with it. I'd love to write a case study about that one day. Or maybe not.
drbacon 5y ago
I am also super interested in the answer to this particular question. I know a lot of people who waited for surplus/standby shots at the end of the day outside clinics in SF. Anecdotally, a lot of my coworkers got early vaccines that way. As a non-essential worker with no risk factors, I felt that my contribution to the pandemic was to stay home and wait until my turn. I did, by the way, wait until the vaccine was generally available before scheduling. Before general availability, most of my friends my age (mid-30s) had been vaccinated by stretching the truth. I felt like the idiot, and had a fair amount of resentment. I wonder about the surplus doses, though. Did a substantial culture of seeking out unused doses result in outcomes that were net positive from a utilitarian point of view? It's unclear to me how much "line cutting" this resulted in. Clearly, stretching the truth to get a dose ahead of others is selfish at least. Back in March, I assume that there were plenty of people in need that didn't/couldn't get an appointment that needed a shot more than YCombinator founders. This wasn't stretching the truth though, just exploitation of a loophole and small surpluses of a limited resource. In the end, I think the morality hinges on your question, koolhaas. To what extent did standby shots interfere with mitigating the health crisis. Is that what dasickis was doing? Was dasickis aware of opportunity cost of taking that shot? Did he even care? https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/03/13/covid-your-bay-area-guide-to-legitimately-score-a-vaccine-even-if-youre-not-eligible-yet/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/03/13/covid-your-bay-area-g...

KyleBerezin 5y ago

I don't agree with this comment, but we should probably upvote it for credible argument's sake.

ericjang 5y ago
I agree with this comment and upvoted it for credible argument's sake
- KyleBerezin 5y ago
  I read more about the location he got his shot from. He is most likely right that he did nothing wrong. Idk anything about the other person who supposedly bragged about skipping in line, but seeing as 1 of his 2 examples was incorrect, I'm going to assume the 2nd one is untrue too until I see something more than hearsay.
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    Judging from this poster, he is most likely not right: https://twitter.com/SarahBelleLin/status/1370071520953835520 https://twitter.com/SarahBelleLin/status/1370071520953835520

Hamuko 5y ago

>YC founder came with his aunt, uncle, and mom all over 65 to get jabbed who didn't know about the vaccine site. Did this YC founder and his aunt, uncle and mom also live in the neighbourhood? Also, I'm curious about those "issues" if you were just intending to help out people in your neighbourhood? What issues were there with your post?

csomar 5y ago
I think they didn't have residency requirements. (just being 18+ and you are eligible).

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

axiosgunnar 5y ago

Why would people have issues with you simply posting you...went and got a jab? Is there more to the story? Sorry genuinely curious, not trying to put fuel on the fire

ignoramous 5y ago
> Why would people have issues with you simply posting you...went and got a jab? Is there more to the story? From the tweets now deleted, looks like the internal bookface post in question wasn't all that popular and got roundly criticized. At least it got 0 upvotes and every single response told him he was wrong. Doesn't seem like he learned his lesson, however it's clear almost nobody else approves of this mentality. (I think the first one was way worse; he was advocating lying.) Seems like there's definitely more to it? https://archive.is/6t7AG https://archive.is/6t7AG
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago
  Interesting. I can still see these "deleted" tweets when I retrieve JSON from the command line. I do not like using Twitter's user interface, especially the way it uses Javascript, so I wrote a quick shell script called 1.sh to read Twitter without using a graphical web browser. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27056734 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27056734 To read the JSON, I have been experimenting with json_reformat from https://github.com/lloyd/yajl https://github.com/lloyd/yajl 1.sh > 1.json sed -n /{\"data\"/p 1.json|json_reformat|sed -n -e 's/ *//' \ -e '/created_at/p;/sation_id_str/p;/full_text/p'|grep -B2 full_text|less
flunhat 5y ago
This was back in March when vaccine demand outstripped supply & ensuring "fair access" to the vaccine was a big concern. It seems almost quaint now that we have the opposite problem. (FWIW I think Paul's reaction was pretty unreasonable, bordering on hysterical).
hn8788 5y ago
From what they wrote, it looks like they probably said something along the lines of "Hey, here's a location where they don't care if you are in an at risk group, you can just show up and get your vaccine." Considering it was back in March, people probably found it wrong to be advertising that to a bunch of people who are probably healthy and well-off, instead of people who actually needed the vaccine. I'm not going to make any judgements about it though, considering I don't know anything about how things were in California. In Maryland they had county level registrations that went through tiers of at risk groups, plus state-wide vaccination sites that were open to anyone, so I ended up getting my vaccination a few weeks before I would have if I'd waited for "my turn" with the county vaccination program.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

walrus01 5y ago

> 2. I asked them about eligibility and told them I don't clear CA guidelines. They told me it's first come, first served with an ID showing I am 18+. There are a number of 'special' vaccination sites in the USA which are indeed vaccinating first come, first served people without going through any special qualifications/eligibility check. For instance FEMA was, and still is, running a mass vaccination site in Yakima, WA which was a massive hot spot of infections in WA state. They quite specifically told the media that they were focused on getting "shots into arms" and not spending a lot of time on each person checking residency documents. https://www.google.com/search?q=yakima+wa+vaccination+site+fema https://www.google.com/search?q=yakima+wa+vaccination+site+f... Although by the time it opened it was also possible for most people in the Seattle metro area to get a shot without a very long wait, I do know a few people who drove over there and quite clearly showed their drivers license for ID, and got vaccinated without violating any policy or lying about anything whatsoever.

steve_adams_86 5y ago
> There are a number of 'special' vaccination sites in the USA which are indeed vaccinating first come, first served people Same here in Canada. Some private clinics have been offering FCFS vaccines to eligible age groups for some time now. I assumed the US must be the same and wondered what the outrage is here. I got messages from people encouraging me to do the same.
random314 5y ago
However these vaccination sites were set up specifically for underserved communities. https://www.fema.gov/press-release/20210326/california-fema-complete-vaccine-mission-oakland-los-angeles-april-11 https://www.fema.gov/press-release/20210326/california-fema-... It also doesn't help that this person keeps changing his story all the time. On Twitter he claims that joe Biden announced that all adults are eligible for vaccination in March. This is patently false.
- jonny_eh 5y ago
  Link to that tweet?

bodono 5y ago

Can you post your original message to the forum here too? That way we can know for sure what was said precisely, otherwise it's just he-said / he-said.

kordlessagain 5y ago
Why is it we need to discuss this more? It’s not technical, or interesting. Just a bunch of people gossiping and trying to judge!!
- teddyh 5y ago
  From the HN guidelines: “Please don't complain that a submission is inappropriate. If a story is spam or off-topic, flag it.”
- gruez 5y ago
  Because people are interested and want to find out the truth? At the moment it's a he-said-she-said situation, with each side posting their own (probably biased) version of events.
  - pvg 5y ago
    Because it’s just gawking curiosity, not intellectual curiosity - the latter being what the site is ostensibly about
  - derefr 5y ago
    The person you're replying to is suggesting that everyone who's "interested and want to find out the truth" here should stop and re-evaluate what utility that gets them, vs what disutility that information-seeking gets the people involved. To put this another way: the paparazzi that chased Princess Diana to her death, did so because there was demand for tabloid journalism.
  - scrollaway 5y ago
    The people that invested in this affair that doesn't concern them? They need a new hobby. Maybe volunteering at their local vax site for a few weeks could do some actual good instead of trying to play detective just to feel good about themselves pretending they are contributing.

rdlecler1 5y ago

I don’t know when this occurred but a few months ago sites started having an oversupply problem and were taking people no questions asked. At that point the elderly and vulnerable had several months lead time and 95% of the people at the vaccination centers were 25-55. I was more outraged at the snitches rage. I personally don’t think there was a moral issue here at all.

random314 5y ago

This was a FEMA clinic for underserved communities in need Make what you want to about it. https://www.fema.gov/press-release/20210326/california-fema-complete-vaccine-mission-oakland-los-angeles-april-11 https://www.fema.gov/press-release/20210326/california-fema-...

fruityrudy 5y ago

Lol and Paul is probably already fully vaccinated over in NYC… Next he will be shouting at the Chinese breaking their laws for circumventing the great firewall by using proxies.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

kordlessagain 5y ago

Twitter is Internet rage defined.

ed405 5y ago
You mean HN is internet rage defined? Twitter is awesome.
- marcos100 5y ago
  Totally! If your Twitter timeline is not awesome, it's your fault.

metaxis79 5y ago

This is really frustrating to me, I also got vaccinated at that clinic through the same mechanism - I live in the complex on the street a block away and perpendicular. I also had people complain at me, and I had to patiently ask them, "would you rather the doses expire"? It's really frustrating but I understand the confusion and also the general feeling of "unfairness", as everyone right-thinking is eager to get vaccinated if possible.

kuschku 5y ago
When I was a child I remember going to food banks. I remember the food bank having no eligibility checks whatsoever. I also remember a few rich people going there just to take advantage of it, and I remember days where we were so far back in line that we got nothing while the rich people walked out happily. That vaccination site isn't any different. Those vaccines were intended for poor, underdocumented, at risk populations. Your vaccination saved one life (yours), but cost many more. It's not any different from the days I went hungry due to egoists like you. Nowadays, I'm obviously in a different situation, but I still can't stand people with this "fuck you, got mine" mindset.
- SyzygistSix 5y ago
  Apparently lots of vaccination sites were indeed different. Your food bank analogy would work if they were serving fresh food and could not give it all away, so invited any and all to come and eat. Which was the situation at many vaccination sites. Doses were going to waste if people did not use them. And when not enough people in the designated groups were showing up or making appointments at some sites, everyone was encouraged to come so the shots did not go to waste. That so many showed up after the general call for people is a marker of success. Not the one intended for initially, but better than shots going to waste.

gruez 5y ago

Biggar's accusation is that you "lied to skip the vaccine queue". In your comment implies that you didn't, but it wasn't stated explicitly. For the record, can you affirmatively deny that you haven't "lied to skip the vaccine queue"?

random314 5y ago
The yc founders commentary is highly unreliable. On Twitter he claimed that joe Biden declared that all adults are eligible for a vaccine in March. Hence he didn't skip the line. This is patently false. He has a different story here. I would take his claims with a huge helping of salt. All that we know is that he got vaccinated in March ahead of federal guidelines. Did he wait to obtain vaccines left over at the end of the day? Or did he enter a line meant to serve underserved communities. We cannot tell.
- natch 5y ago
  I believe what are being thought of and judged by some (not you necessarily) as hard rules are actually just guidelines as you mentioned. And individual sites are encouraged to use their discretion in giving out available doses, when extra doses are available, to people who would otherwise not fit the guidelines. Because having doses go to waste is not desirable. So, people passing judgement may be being overly harsh. It’s hard to speak generally about it though because rules and guidelines vary from place to place.
  - Aeolun 5y ago
    It’s perfectly acceptable to do this thing (in theory), but if stories about it turn into he said/she said there is part of the context we are missing.
    - natch 5y ago
      Maybe the takeaway is that organizations may (fairly, imho) try to limit the toxicity when people initiate he said/she said accusations in public without having all the facts.

nomdep 5y ago

NYC has been offering vaccines for all international tourists for quite some time: https://twitter.com/nycgov/status/1390389905033994246 https://twitter.com/nycgov/status/1390389905033994246

grzm 5y ago
As others have pointed out, the event they're discussing happened in March.
jkaplowitz 5y ago
Not all. NY hasn't yet expanded eligibility to international residents, unlike some states like PA (other than Philadelphia) and TX which are okay vaccinating anyone of the right age regardless of country of residence. Source: https://covid19vaccine.health.ny.gov/ https://covid19vaccine.health.ny.gov/ "All individuals 12 years of age and older that reside in the United States are eligible to receive the vaccine." https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-vaccine-eligibility.page https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-vaccine-eligibi... used to mention this requirement but still links to the NY State COVID-19 Vaccine Form (seemingly hosted on S3!) https://forms.ny.gov/s3/vaccine https://forms.ny.gov/s3/vaccine that includes an attestation that the vaccine recipient "presently reside[s] in the United States". They aren't just excluding international tourists, either - lots of non-tourist international residents are still excluded from vaccination in NY. I'm an American citizen who currently lives outside the US, but I've spent most of my life living in NYC and am preparing to move back there with my wife once she gets her US immigrant visa. We recently visited my fully vaccinated parents, primarily as a family visit and mental health break, and with tourism kept to a minimum for safety reasons. When we got our first shots in late April, the rules were "NY residents only", so we each got our two doses in a relatively nearby, rural, and somewhat politically purplish part of PA that had plenty of spare shots and that didn't mind ID documents showing foreign residency. Even now we wouldn't qualify for getting our first dose in NYC, despite having a lot stronger ties to the area than tourists. I hope NY removes this last restriction some time soon: maybe together with its so-called "full reopening" on July 1, maybe when the Canada-US land border reopens to travelers who aren't fully vaccinated, or maybe when the geographical travel restrictions get dropped for foreigners coming from the EU/UK/China.

gabereiser 5y ago

When I lived in Denver a few months back, the mass-vaccination site of Coors Field was right behind my condo. I love to skateboard and OneWheel that lot (Coors Field lot C) and just rolled up in my OneWheel and a nurse asked if I was there for a vaccination. I said I wasn’t but that I also hadn’t been vaccinated. She directed me to the line and said “Well, go get yours”. At this time CO hadn’t opened up vaccines for everyone 18+ (they did two weeks later). While I understand the frustrations some people have with the fact their state has waiting lists and eligibility requirements still, I also believe we should be happy people are getting vaxed. No input on the drama here but I’m glad you made the decision to get vaxed and Paul should do his part to make sure he gets vaxed. Internet outrage isn’t a sustainable community builder unless you’re into conspiracies or cancel culture. Calling out others for doing their part (whether ethically or not) is missing the point. Get vaxed. So we can all move forward.

hef19898 5y ago
I am split on that. Waiting in line behind all those having prioritized appointments in order to catch surplus doses, fine. Lying to get such an appointment? Not cool. Generally, we shouldn't make such a fuss vaccination on social media, either way.
- gabereiser 5y ago
  People lie. All the time. The Karen’s of the world. If you deceived in order to get vaxed and someone who desperately needs the vax couldn’t get one, I understand the anger. I’ve lost friends to covid. What I will say is life isn’t fair, crying about it after the fact doesn’t do anyone any justice. Focus on you and just go get vaxed. If you need to make an appointment, do it. If you need to walk up to a clinic, do it. The sooner we can get everyone vaxed the sooner we can return to normal. I’m not downplaying the issue, I’m simply redirecting energy into more positive outcomes. I have no say on the drama of whether they lied to get bumped to the front of the line or not. People lie to jump lines all the time. Hell, some people just cut them. Does it anger me personally, yes. Will it change the overall outcome, no. Get vaxed. Call your congressperson if you must, but get vaxed.

mbgerring 5y ago

So just so everyone has the full context: Oakland opened up its vaccination sites to more people on a shorter timeline than the rest of the state, in certain ZIP codes with disproportionately poor residents, in order to get vaccines to those disproportionately poor residents. I know this because this is how several of my friends who live in West Oakland got vaccinated ahead of the eligibility opening up in the rest of the state. Your post suggests that the result of your post on the YC message board is that people who did not live in those zip codes came to Oakland to take advantage of a program that was not meant for them (and please correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s what I’m seeing here). I think if you really want to exonerate yourself here, you should probably come clean about what kinds of objections were raised to your original post, because it is very plain to me how the kind of thing you’re describing could be seen by a reasonable person as unethical.

Siira 5y ago
> to take advantage of a program that was not meant for them What’s wrong with this? Our whole society operates like this, but it’s suddenly wrong for some small fries to “take advantage of the law” ?” Write your laws correctly, and don’t blame people for looking out for themselves using completely legal means.
- mynameisvlad 5y ago
  There is a huge difference between something being legal and something being moral. What they did might have been legal, sure, but it sure as hell was not moral.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  Attitudes like that is what's wrong with your society.
Igelau 5y ago
> the kind of thing you’re describing could be seen by a reasonable person as unethical False. A reasonable person would know that the shots don't last after they are thawed out. If someone skipped the appointment, the ethical thing to do is put it in the next warm body that's standing by rather than waste the shot. No one owes anyone any "coming clean" over encouraging others not to let those shots go to waste.

throwawayhdudue 5y ago

He’s probably just jealous of your whale fuckbot or whatever the hell it is you say you’re working on.

0xbadcafebee 5y ago

I was hoping someone would validate my suspicion that all of the people commenting without seeing any evidence were indulging in outrage porn.

mgh2 5y ago

Well, if Paul was mistaken, then he should have been informed- not kicked out of YC for a misunderstanding don’t you think? Sounds like abuse of power

addicted 5y ago
Yeah, I’m not gonna get particularly upset about either side doing something wrong at a time when there was a lot of confusion, lot of pressure, and frankly the correct moral decision isn’t all that clear. But that swings both ways, and it does not speak well that 1 side was penalized so heavily for it, irrespective of whether they were in the right or wrong. Of course, it’s even more egregious coming on the heels of a Ycombinator founder defending someone who did far far worse.
- mgh2 5y ago
  I am not surprised this comment was buried to avoid scrutiny. Technocracy censorship is common these days

ryanobjc 5y ago

So I’m guessing this was that west Oakland pop up fema site. Encouraging people who did not live nearby to come there and get vaccinated is both against the letter and spirit of the “law” and the intention of the site. It’s a pretty scummy thing to do. Fuck you friend.

tzs 5y ago

Several posters in this reddit discussion [1] about that vaccination site corroborate dasickis' claims. It's still not clear why they were not sticking to whatever the current phase California was in at the time. I've seen a couple claims on that, both of which are believable. 1. The site was participating in a Federal vaccination program, not a state vaccination program. The state rollout phases only applied to state programs. 2. They didn't get enough people making appointments to use up their vaccine allotment. When that happened (or when people made but didn't keep appointments) sites were allowed to give the leftover vaccine out first come first served to anyone who met the requirements of the FDA emergency authorization for the vaccine they were using. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/oakland/comments/m4bqx9/a_west_oakland_church_hosted_a_vaccine_clinic_for/ https://www.reddit.com/r/oakland/comments/m4bqx9/a_west_oakl...

pdonis 5y ago

> 4. Posted it in an internal forum for other founders. Why? That seems to be the key question and I don't see an answer to it anywhere in this discussion.

fuckyah 5y ago

Pretty stupid to take this experimental vaxx!

dasickis 5y ago

Since most of these self-righteous comments below still have no idea what they're talking about. The site was for overflow of vaccines that were going unused & being thrown out. The Oakland Coliseum is one of these mega-sites. So many of you don't understand the on-the-ground realities of the communities you're speaking of where I live. I see my neighbors and when FEMA is running these sites they know their goals. It's not unethical to follow the guidelines and get jabbed. Also the line was most exclusively healthy adults coming in from all around California. Clearly I didn't invite 800 people myself from a deleted post on an internal forum. Also on the Monday before the FEMA agents were telling me they had less people than vaccines, Tuesday they barely covered the people with vaccines, and Wednesday (when I got it) onwards they had slightly more demand when they asked people to tell their friends. It's up to governments to enforce rules around their clinics instead of moral crusaders that live across the country with no on-the-ground experience to tweet an internal post to generate outrage. Here are articles around why there was so few people getting vaccinated in our area and why FEMA requested us ask our friends to show up. "COVID-19 Vaccination Hesitancy in the United States: A Rapid National Assessment " - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7778842/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7778842/ "Addressing Justified Vaccine Hesitancy in the Black Community " - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8009077/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8009077/

an_opabinia 5y ago
You know you're in a bad place when you're engaging some "petty drama" by invoking generalizations about the "Black Community."
- McFluff 5y ago
  Where’d he do that? Honestly don’t see it. He said he understand the realities of how bad covid is the that area and the areas around it because he lives there. Then that it was within the guidelines for anyone from around the area to be able to get vaccinated at the site. While some days there was less people than vaccinates ready to be used along with days where it was busier. People in my city went to different neighborhoods where vaccines were available for them too. To put it perspective say there was a vaccine site in west Harlem with plenty of vaccines while the surrounding areas didn’t. People from west Harlem, Washington heights, all the ones surrounding that, the neighborhoods below 125th, the one that encompasses Columbia, etc... to try to get vaccinated as soon as they can. Pretty much everyone who’s working class in the city saw how bad covid hit here and in other major cities . Those who want a vaccine should get it as soon as they can, period.

towergratis 5y ago

No matter how you try to present it, you know very well that you were not eligible, and you still went ahead and skipped the line. You are a scumbag.

chasd00 5y ago

This whole thing is about a COVID shot!? Yeah petty on all sides sounds about right to me.

myWindoonn 5y ago

You failed a basic ethical test: Can you wait until the needy have had their turn? The answer seems to be that no, you cannot. I recognize that YC views this as a positive trait in founders, but I hope that you recognize that the vast majority of folks view it as a negative.

jollybean 5y ago

As it is presented it does not seem controversial. If someone is not misrepresenting themselves, and they are following the rules of the site/clinic then there's no concern here.

ch33zer 5y ago

FWIW: Early on California had a no leftover doses policy. But what do you do when you have more vaccines than eligible people? You lower the eligibility requirements. This probably wasn't official policy but it was required of vaccination site runners to comply with the policy, so as they got towards the end of the day and they still had doses leftover they probably started jabbing anyone who walked in. I don't know what the consequences were from having leftover doses, but they were severe enough that some sites started doing this kind of thing.

sweis 5y ago

For context, this site was at Mt. Zion Missionary Baptist Church in West Oakland. It was intentionally located there to target the local underserved communities. At the time, California was in phases 1A and 1B. This was intended for elderly and essential workers. There was misinformation that it was first-come, first-serve to anyone who wanted it. I looked into it at the time and it was easy to verify that this was not true. The CA State website, the church's fliers, and their help line were all clear. Here's an example clearly listing who was eligible: https://twitter.com/SarahBelleLin/status/1370071520953835520?s=20 https://twitter.com/SarahBelleLin/status/1370071520953835520... They intentionally did not check eligibility to avoid putting barriers up for high risk people. It was effectively an honor system. This site ended up being oversubscribed and most doses went to people outside the targeted area or demographic: https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/article/A-West-Oakland-church-hosted-a-vaccine-clinic-for-16022941.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/article/A-West-Oakland-chu...

xtracto 5y ago

It baffles me how people get outraged when other people get vaccinated out of "order" . Here in Mexico there's a lot of ruckus because of people going to Texas to get vaccine. Or when doctors vaccinated themselves and their families. My thought is... when it comes to vaccines. It doesn't matter who goes first and who goes later. The fact that someone (anyone) is vaccinated helps us all. I still dont have the vaccine and will get it later. But I already feel safer with all the people that have been vaccinated. Theres no way people can do wrong!!

deleted 5y ago
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beiller 5y ago
I think, assuming the vaccine is effective, vaccination only one group like what is happening in a small set of countries, will have a negative effect on the goal of eliminating a virus (is this the goal?). Supposedly allowing the virus to thrive and mutate in a subset of humans would make vaccines overall less effective at completely extinguishing a disease. But case by case has a negligit effect on national disparity, but socially it seems unacceptable.