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I do not care about being competitve. I work so I can draw a salary to fund my life. That's it. I don't care about constantly climbing a ladder. I don't care a

I do not care about being competitve. I work so I can draw a salary to fund my life. That's it. I don't care about constantly climbing a ladder. I don't care about advancing my career for the sake of advancing my career. I just want to enjoy my life, and working for a living is just my means to that end. If I'm making enough to be comfortable, I don't care about chasing a promotion or getting ahead of people. I can't think of a single thing I care about less than having a competitive advantage over other people in the Game of Offices. Being forced to spend 8 hours a day outside my home makes me actively uncomfortable. I'm autistic, partially faceblind (I used to think I can tell people's faces apart... but then a coworker will shave their head and it turns out I'm completely incapable of recognizing them... turns out I mostly just recognize hair), have difficulty looking people in the eye, and have a litany of sensory issues. Face-to-face interaction gives me zero benefit, and being able to work while wearing a rayon nightgown and rayon pajama pants means I'm actually able to focus on my work instead of focusing on how my clothes feel. My company has a diversity and inclusion committee—I am on the diversity and inclusion committee—and there has not been a single discussion of how forcing people back to the office is actively harmful to autistic employees who can't benefit from face-to-face interaction and have sensory issues that make offices uncomfortable. It is absolutely hypocritical for companies to say they care about diversity and inclusion while shafting autistic employees like this.

mdocherty 5y ago
If you are on the committee you should probably speak up and say something.
- iab 5y ago
  I agree - not sure there will ever be this kinda leverage again in our lifetimes
eyelidlessness 5y ago
Yo, start that discussion! I’m autistic, and while I can benefit from face to face, I often don’t. I don’t work for your company but I know I’m depending on you to work with and for your colleagues and to help set an example.
watermelon59 5y ago
> I do not care about being competitve. > I work so I can draw a salary to fund my life. That's it. I don't care about constantly climbing a ladder. I don't care about advancing my career for the sake of advancing my career. I just want to enjoy my life, and working for a living is just my means to that end. If I'm making enough to be comfortable, I don't care about chasing a promotion or getting ahead of people. I can't think of a single thing I care about less than having a competitive advantage over other people in the Game of Offices. I’ve made the mistake of saying that out loud during pre-pandemic lunch conversations and happy hours and every time people looked at me like I had two heads.
- Aeolun 5y ago
  As long as you are enjoying yourself it’s fine right? I enjoyed that for a while too, but just developing became boring, so now I’m also trying to play office politics. Not in the sense of some machiavellan scheme, but previously I’d just utterly ignore it.
  - pm90 5y ago
    Office politics can be amusing if you’re able to step away from it a bit and don’t care too much about the rat race. It’s immediately obvious who are the folks genuinely interested in building value and who are drones interpreting what their managers order them to do.
    - dclusin 5y ago
      Eventually someone has to do the lowly business of actually implementing the value that those 10x ninja fullstack super senior software architects just created. God bless the drones.
      - TeMPOraL 5y ago
        It's a self-inflicted problem. They shouldn't have promoted those 10x ninja superstars out of development and into management roles (and apparently, "principal engineer" and even "senior engineer" is frequently just faux-management - all the responsibilities, none of the authority of a real manager). I find it ironic that our industry trains up developers until the point they finally become competent at their jobs, and immediately force them to manage new breed of trainees instead of doing the work they're good at.
disposablex 5y ago
Just had this conversation with my parents today. They asked why is working from home so wonderful? The number one reason I had was, because everyone can just be them, it's a lot different than in the office. The job can and should be a lot more inclusive and diverse when you're working in your own space -- home office, cafe, etc. You find what works for you, without having to worry about messing with someone else's flow in the next cubicle or being interrupted in your own flow by someone that always needs to escape their own work. Someone that wants to do something distracting can, without annoying others, everything is on your own terms, even if you have to take care of other family members. With audio only you're just another human, not to be judged on appearance or malformation or what have you; which opens barriers that are presented in the office all the time, hell, it might even scare your interviewers from giving you the job in the first place! Either people can be cruel or incessantly think you're helpless. I've noticed over the last year, those colleagues that are more introverted sometimes have a better go of presenting how they think online. When sharing their screens they're able to show more of their presentation skills, a lot more chances to present in a way they've developed overtime. And not more opportunities, it's probably the first opportunity they've had to shine than if it they were in an office; it doesn't happen. In my opinion, I feel like those that are people-people will always get ahead in an office setting versus those that think a bit differently, look a bit differently, dress or act a bit differently, and this makes it a more level playing field for the latter.
- mLuby 5y ago
  Exactly. Remote work promotes diversity, equity, and inclusion.
  - benrbray 5y ago
    I think this is yet to be determined, but even if you're right, it still promotes a different kind of inequality. Remote work is strongly biased in favor of those with the resources to have a nice, distraction-free office setup at home, and towards those who are already established in their careers.
    - 5y ago
pm90 5y ago
Oh my god you are so right. It’s somewhat unfathomable that companies were able to see that remote work actually works and yet insist on going back even for people for whom wfh is essential to their well being.
matt-attack 5y ago
That’s because diversity and inclusion pretty much means “blacks” and “women” fullstop. I was recently hiring a developer and my massive media company insisted I ensure my recruiter is giving me diverse candidates. I selected an individual who is apparently Spanish Jewish. Some very rare tribe of Jews from Spain. Was that considered diverse? Nope. Needs to be black.
- winrid 5y ago
  I actually had a manager at a company openly say they were having trouble finding an intern as they only wanted a minority. I ended up waiting for months. I am very happy I got out of that place...
  - adflux 5y ago
    How is it that some people are so careful about being diverse that they end up being incredibly racist, and yet not notice it ?!
    - nemo44x 5y ago
      Because to be anti-racist you need to implement present discrimination to make up for past discrimination. It’s in their literature and literally a tenant in Kendi’s popular book “How to be an Anti-Racist” that countless diversity councils in corporations suggested their employees read during last years moral panic. Civil rights violation? Probably.
      - frockington1 5y ago
        Anti-Racism is a hard concept for me to grasp. When I was growing up we were taught to judge everyone by the content of their character. To me it made sense, why care about what people look like if they are good people. But now that view is considered racist and judging people by what they look like is "back in style" so to speak.
- cik 5y ago
  I fully relate to this. Years ago I worked for a Canadian subsidiary of a US company doing work with the US government. On a (illegal in Canada) US government form I accurately marked down that my "Protected Origin Class". I am 50% African and 50% Asian, as a Moroccan-Jewish, Israeli. We were audited. The American auditor was flabbergasted by my values on the form. He literally told me that as a (visible, brown) Jew, I couldn't possibly mark those things down. I had to resort to pulling out maps and asking if Morocco was in Africa and Israel was in Asia. He was flummoxed by my refusal to mark down "white" when a) I'm not white, and b) his form offered me the ability to mark down what I am. Pointing out that percentage-wise as Jew, I was less than 0.006% of Canada's population also didn't make me a minority apparently. That was the last time I ever assumed that minority is supposed to mean anything other than the tokenized narrative of the time.
etripe 5y ago
I can empathise with your experience, as someone who is either just inside or outside of Asperger's. If you're on the diversity and inclusion committee and no one is challenging the return to the office, can't you? Or is this purely a reactionary, advisory committee?
simonh 5y ago
>I am on the diversity and inclusion committee—and there has not been a single discussion of how forcing people back to the office is actively harmful to autistic employees... Do committee members not have the ability to raise issues? I'd have thought that would be why they would want people like you on the committee, so that you can raise and talk about issues like this.
tkiolp4 5y ago
This. I work because I need the money. Period. I love my craft and I practice it every day on my own terms and as little or as much as I want... but offering my skills to others just happens because I get paid.
shlant 5y ago
aside from the autism reasons (although I definitely empathize as my wife is on the spectrum) you took the words right out of my mouth. I don't care about anything other than funding my lifestyle. Been remote for 5+ years and will never go back. I enjoy my job and I like to socialize with people I work with in person occasionally and play some ping pong, but nothing about working in an office is worth the trade-off.
subpixel 5y ago
> I don't care about constantly climbing a ladder. I empathize with this but many organizations are, essentially "up or out". You are either seen as growing and rising through the ranks or as awaiting some sort of release. I hope you are so good at what you do that you could easily find another job, but that is not a given for most people. So they feel compelled to play the games you are dismissing.
ck425 5y ago
I have the same view of work but have the opposite view of being in the office. The small friendships and camaraderie make the work a lot more enjoyable for me. Hopefully coming out of this there'll be a mix of companies. Some fully remote for people like yourself and some mostly in the office for folk like me.

mdocherty 5y ago

If you are on the committee you should probably speak up and say something.

iab 5y ago
I agree - not sure there will ever be this kinda leverage again in our lifetimes

eyelidlessness 5y ago

Yo, start that discussion! I’m autistic, and while I can benefit from face to face, I often don’t. I don’t work for your company but I know I’m depending on you to work with and for your colleagues and to help set an example.

watermelon59 5y ago

> I do not care about being competitve. > I work so I can draw a salary to fund my life. That's it. I don't care about constantly climbing a ladder. I don't care about advancing my career for the sake of advancing my career. I just want to enjoy my life, and working for a living is just my means to that end. If I'm making enough to be comfortable, I don't care about chasing a promotion or getting ahead of people. I can't think of a single thing I care about less than having a competitive advantage over other people in the Game of Offices. I’ve made the mistake of saying that out loud during pre-pandemic lunch conversations and happy hours and every time people looked at me like I had two heads.

Aeolun 5y ago
As long as you are enjoying yourself it’s fine right? I enjoyed that for a while too, but just developing became boring, so now I’m also trying to play office politics. Not in the sense of some machiavellan scheme, but previously I’d just utterly ignore it.
- pm90 5y ago
  Office politics can be amusing if you’re able to step away from it a bit and don’t care too much about the rat race. It’s immediately obvious who are the folks genuinely interested in building value and who are drones interpreting what their managers order them to do.
  - dclusin 5y ago
    Eventually someone has to do the lowly business of actually implementing the value that those 10x ninja fullstack super senior software architects just created. God bless the drones.
    - TeMPOraL 5y ago
      It's a self-inflicted problem. They shouldn't have promoted those 10x ninja superstars out of development and into management roles (and apparently, "principal engineer" and even "senior engineer" is frequently just faux-management - all the responsibilities, none of the authority of a real manager). I find it ironic that our industry trains up developers until the point they finally become competent at their jobs, and immediately force them to manage new breed of trainees instead of doing the work they're good at.

disposablex 5y ago

Just had this conversation with my parents today. They asked why is working from home so wonderful? The number one reason I had was, because everyone can just be them, it's a lot different than in the office. The job can and should be a lot more inclusive and diverse when you're working in your own space -- home office, cafe, etc. You find what works for you, without having to worry about messing with someone else's flow in the next cubicle or being interrupted in your own flow by someone that always needs to escape their own work. Someone that wants to do something distracting can, without annoying others, everything is on your own terms, even if you have to take care of other family members. With audio only you're just another human, not to be judged on appearance or malformation or what have you; which opens barriers that are presented in the office all the time, hell, it might even scare your interviewers from giving you the job in the first place! Either people can be cruel or incessantly think you're helpless. I've noticed over the last year, those colleagues that are more introverted sometimes have a better go of presenting how they think online. When sharing their screens they're able to show more of their presentation skills, a lot more chances to present in a way they've developed overtime. And not more opportunities, it's probably the first opportunity they've had to shine than if it they were in an office; it doesn't happen. In my opinion, I feel like those that are people-people will always get ahead in an office setting versus those that think a bit differently, look a bit differently, dress or act a bit differently, and this makes it a more level playing field for the latter.

mLuby 5y ago
Exactly. Remote work promotes diversity, equity, and inclusion.
- benrbray 5y ago
  I think this is yet to be determined, but even if you're right, it still promotes a different kind of inequality. Remote work is strongly biased in favor of those with the resources to have a nice, distraction-free office setup at home, and towards those who are already established in their careers.
  - 5y ago

pm90 5y ago

Oh my god you are so right. It’s somewhat unfathomable that companies were able to see that remote work actually works and yet insist on going back even for people for whom wfh is essential to their well being.

matt-attack 5y ago

That’s because diversity and inclusion pretty much means “blacks” and “women” fullstop. I was recently hiring a developer and my massive media company insisted I ensure my recruiter is giving me diverse candidates. I selected an individual who is apparently Spanish Jewish. Some very rare tribe of Jews from Spain. Was that considered diverse? Nope. Needs to be black.

winrid 5y ago
I actually had a manager at a company openly say they were having trouble finding an intern as they only wanted a minority. I ended up waiting for months. I am very happy I got out of that place...
- adflux 5y ago
  How is it that some people are so careful about being diverse that they end up being incredibly racist, and yet not notice it ?!
  - nemo44x 5y ago
    Because to be anti-racist you need to implement present discrimination to make up for past discrimination. It’s in their literature and literally a tenant in Kendi’s popular book “How to be an Anti-Racist” that countless diversity councils in corporations suggested their employees read during last years moral panic. Civil rights violation? Probably.
    - frockington1 5y ago
      Anti-Racism is a hard concept for me to grasp. When I was growing up we were taught to judge everyone by the content of their character. To me it made sense, why care about what people look like if they are good people. But now that view is considered racist and judging people by what they look like is "back in style" so to speak.
cik 5y ago
I fully relate to this. Years ago I worked for a Canadian subsidiary of a US company doing work with the US government. On a (illegal in Canada) US government form I accurately marked down that my "Protected Origin Class". I am 50% African and 50% Asian, as a Moroccan-Jewish, Israeli. We were audited. The American auditor was flabbergasted by my values on the form. He literally told me that as a (visible, brown) Jew, I couldn't possibly mark those things down. I had to resort to pulling out maps and asking if Morocco was in Africa and Israel was in Asia. He was flummoxed by my refusal to mark down "white" when a) I'm not white, and b) his form offered me the ability to mark down what I am. Pointing out that percentage-wise as Jew, I was less than 0.006% of Canada's population also didn't make me a minority apparently. That was the last time I ever assumed that minority is supposed to mean anything other than the tokenized narrative of the time.

etripe 5y ago

I can empathise with your experience, as someone who is either just inside or outside of Asperger's. If you're on the diversity and inclusion committee and no one is challenging the return to the office, can't you? Or is this purely a reactionary, advisory committee?

simonh 5y ago

>I am on the diversity and inclusion committee—and there has not been a single discussion of how forcing people back to the office is actively harmful to autistic employees... Do committee members not have the ability to raise issues? I'd have thought that would be why they would want people like you on the committee, so that you can raise and talk about issues like this.

tkiolp4 5y ago

This. I work because I need the money. Period. I love my craft and I practice it every day on my own terms and as little or as much as I want... but offering my skills to others just happens because I get paid.

shlant 5y ago

aside from the autism reasons (although I definitely empathize as my wife is on the spectrum) you took the words right out of my mouth. I don't care about anything other than funding my lifestyle. Been remote for 5+ years and will never go back. I enjoy my job and I like to socialize with people I work with in person occasionally and play some ping pong, but nothing about working in an office is worth the trade-off.

subpixel 5y ago

> I don't care about constantly climbing a ladder. I empathize with this but many organizations are, essentially "up or out". You are either seen as growing and rising through the ranks or as awaiting some sort of release. I hope you are so good at what you do that you could easily find another job, but that is not a given for most people. So they feel compelled to play the games you are dismissing.

ck425 5y ago

I have the same view of work but have the opposite view of being in the office. The small friendships and camaraderie make the work a lot more enjoyable for me. Hopefully coming out of this there'll be a mix of companies. Some fully remote for people like yourself and some mostly in the office for folk like me.