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> Instead, these will be the first Tesla vehicles to rely on camera vision and neural net processing to deliver Autopilot, Full-Self Driving and certain active

> Instead, these will be the first Tesla vehicles to rely on camera vision and neural net processing to deliver Autopilot, Full-Self Driving and certain active safety features. Tesla's marketing is... misleading. "Full-Self Driving" sounds like the car is fully capable of driving itself when it does nothing of the sort. I can see why some drivers assume it's more capable than it is. "Autopilot" was bad enough. What is Tesla going to call their eventual level 4 autonomy feature? "Actually Full Self Driving"?

ghaff 5y ago
>What is Tesla going to call their eventual level 4 autonomy feature? "Actually Full Self Driving"? Technically that would be Actually Full Self Driving Sometimes.
AceJohnny2 5y ago
"Full Speed Self Driving", as opposed to "High Speed Self Driving" wait, or is it the other way around? ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#USB_2.0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#USB_2.0
- bigtones 5y ago
  Super speed self driving ;-)
boardwaalk 5y ago
Do we have to relitigate this every time? Do you think we’re going to advance the conversation around this by you raising this? As someone who even only tangentially follows Tesla & no stake, it’s really tiring.
- mikestew 5y ago
  Every time Tesla uses the misleading-bordering-on-lying phrase "Full Self-Driving" to describe their cars? I have no problem with that. If you find it tiring, complain to the company telling whoppers and not to the ones pointing it out.
w0m 5y ago
The general assumption is that current FSD package is 'Beta', and being worked on. Will it ever get out of Beta? 20% chance I think. But Here's Hoping.
wolpoli 5y ago
A self-driving car is defined as "a vehicle that is capable of sensing its environment and moving safely with little or no human input" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-driving_car https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-driving_car, but Tesla's Full Self-Driving feature actually requires human input. This is confusing.
- notsureaboutpg 5y ago
  Yes, Tesla's "Full Self-Driving" is not autonomous enough to operate without you paying attention to the road at all times. But they advertise it as if you can sleep in the driver's seat (I think they literally have said that in the past).
  - dzader 5y ago
    lol they absolutely do not. where do you get this stuff?
    - notsureaboutpg 5y ago
      https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-tesla-full-self-driving-2019-2020-promise/ https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-tesla-full-self-drivin... >The CEO says his Autopilot system will be "feature-complete" this year, and ready to ferry snoozing passengers by the end of next year.
somishere 5y ago
"undriving"
pavlov 5y ago
Tesla calls this feature "Full Self-Driving Capability" and pretends that the word "capability" is understood to mean it could eventually be capable of it, somehow. It's like if Apple were selling a smartphone with 80 Megapixel Photo Capability, and the fine print reads: "Devices equipped with 80MP Photo Capability do not have an 80MP sensor. The capability refers to the hardware's ability to potentially upscale images to this resolution. We don't yet ship software that enables the 80MP resolution." (I was stupid enough to pay for this bullshit FSD feature on a Model 3. Nice car otherwise, but with Musk it's always caveat emptor.)
- joe_the_user 5y ago
  The "capable" weasel word is pretty deceptive. But the sad thing is that these weasel word are becoming just common and standard enough that I, someone who sort of studies this stuff, can understand them and warn friends that "X capable" mean less than X. And that situation gives the marketers some amount of push back - "see everyone knows X capable isn't X".
- IshKebab 5y ago
  But there are numerous marketing pages, quotes from Musk etc. where that sneaky distinction isn't made. Honestly I don't know why there hasn't been an enormous class action lawsuit from people like yourself who were fooled into paying for something that has never and can never be delivered. Surely that is fraud?
sxp 5y ago
You can see the details at https://www.tesla.com/models/design#overview https://www.tesla.com/models/design#overview: >Basic Autopilot ...Included with every new Tesla, Autopilot enables your car to steer, accelerate and brake automatically for other vehicles and pedestrians within its lane. There to assist with the most burdensome parts of driving, Autopilot works alongside features like emergency braking, collision warning and blind-spot monitoring. > Full Self-Driving Capability $10,000...The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates.
stubish 5y ago
Certainly it is misleading, but technically correct if you check those tenses: "these will be the first Tesla vehicles to rely on camera vision and neural net processing to deliver Autopilot, Full-Self Driving and certain active safety features." Future tenses all the way. Someone might make them clarify this, but the clarification won't be as high profile as this release.

ghaff 5y ago

>What is Tesla going to call their eventual level 4 autonomy feature? "Actually Full Self Driving"? Technically that would be Actually Full Self Driving Sometimes.

AceJohnny2 5y ago

"Full Speed Self Driving", as opposed to "High Speed Self Driving" wait, or is it the other way around? ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#USB_2.0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#USB_2.0

bigtones 5y ago
Super speed self driving ;-)

boardwaalk 5y ago

Do we have to relitigate this every time? Do you think we’re going to advance the conversation around this by you raising this? As someone who even only tangentially follows Tesla & no stake, it’s really tiring.

mikestew 5y ago
Every time Tesla uses the misleading-bordering-on-lying phrase "Full Self-Driving" to describe their cars? I have no problem with that. If you find it tiring, complain to the company telling whoppers and not to the ones pointing it out.

w0m 5y ago

The general assumption is that current FSD package is 'Beta', and being worked on. Will it ever get out of Beta? 20% chance I think. But Here's Hoping.

wolpoli 5y ago

A self-driving car is defined as "a vehicle that is capable of sensing its environment and moving safely with little or no human input" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-driving_car https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-driving_car, but Tesla's Full Self-Driving feature actually requires human input. This is confusing.

notsureaboutpg 5y ago
Yes, Tesla's "Full Self-Driving" is not autonomous enough to operate without you paying attention to the road at all times. But they advertise it as if you can sleep in the driver's seat (I think they literally have said that in the past).
- dzader 5y ago
  lol they absolutely do not. where do you get this stuff?
  - notsureaboutpg 5y ago
    https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-tesla-full-self-driving-2019-2020-promise/ https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-tesla-full-self-drivin... >The CEO says his Autopilot system will be "feature-complete" this year, and ready to ferry snoozing passengers by the end of next year.

somishere 5y ago

"undriving"

pavlov 5y ago

Tesla calls this feature "Full Self-Driving Capability" and pretends that the word "capability" is understood to mean it could eventually be capable of it, somehow. It's like if Apple were selling a smartphone with 80 Megapixel Photo Capability, and the fine print reads: "Devices equipped with 80MP Photo Capability do not have an 80MP sensor. The capability refers to the hardware's ability to potentially upscale images to this resolution. We don't yet ship software that enables the 80MP resolution." (I was stupid enough to pay for this bullshit FSD feature on a Model 3. Nice car otherwise, but with Musk it's always caveat emptor.)

joe_the_user 5y ago
The "capable" weasel word is pretty deceptive. But the sad thing is that these weasel word are becoming just common and standard enough that I, someone who sort of studies this stuff, can understand them and warn friends that "X capable" mean less than X. And that situation gives the marketers some amount of push back - "see everyone knows X capable isn't X".
IshKebab 5y ago
But there are numerous marketing pages, quotes from Musk etc. where that sneaky distinction isn't made. Honestly I don't know why there hasn't been an enormous class action lawsuit from people like yourself who were fooled into paying for something that has never and can never be delivered. Surely that is fraud?

sxp 5y ago

You can see the details at https://www.tesla.com/models/design#overview https://www.tesla.com/models/design#overview: >Basic Autopilot ...Included with every new Tesla, Autopilot enables your car to steer, accelerate and brake automatically for other vehicles and pedestrians within its lane. There to assist with the most burdensome parts of driving, Autopilot works alongside features like emergency braking, collision warning and blind-spot monitoring. > Full Self-Driving Capability $10,000...The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates.

stubish 5y ago

Certainly it is misleading, but technically correct if you check those tenses: "these will be the first Tesla vehicles to rely on camera vision and neural net processing to deliver Autopilot, Full-Self Driving and certain active safety features." Future tenses all the way. Someone might make them clarify this, but the clarification won't be as high profile as this release.