6 ms·

Classic comment missing the point that not everyone needs or wants the social interaction with their work mates.

by cujo 5y ago

kristjansson 5y ago
Not everyone of course, and one should be attentive to and accommodating of teammates that feel that way. But surely “let’s knock off at three today and go down the pub, thanks for all the hard work” is a positive for most people?
- bluefirebrand 5y ago
  "Thanks for all the hard work, let's knock off at three today" Is a positive. "Let's go down to the pub" is still capitalizing on my time. It's still work, just the location has changed. And in the past it has often started at 3 and then kept going and going until way later than if I'd just worked out my day. There is always some idealism around it like "oh if you don't drink you don't have to, just come hang out for a bit" or "you don't have to stay late you can leave early" but in practice people aren't actually that understanding. You try to head home and it's all "you're not having a good time?" Or "you're not a team player" No thanks. I'll pass on all of that from now on.
  - ecpottinger 5y ago
    Exactly my experience.
  - asdff 5y ago
    I can't believe that's real life for some people. I would never drink with someone who has "team player" in their dictionary unironically. That being said, the vast majority of my coworkers, all of them actually, are not robots like that. If they were, I would find a new job fast. If you are in a place like this currently, there are greener pastures my friend. Seek them out. Find people who don't care that you go home to beat traffic instead of hitting up the bar. They exist.
- Angostura 5y ago
  Try Let’s knock off at three today. I'm going down the pub - anyone care to join me? I'm buying."
  - ivarv 5y ago
    An argument could be made that non-pub goers are still excluded from some kind of reward or compensation. If the buyer was spending their own personal money that might be one thing, but more often than not the funds come out of company expenses.
    - Jcampuzano2 5y ago
      In consulting companies I've worked for (and I'm inclined at least in part to agree) it would be argued that it is not necessarily equivalent to compensation since work is usually talked about in some capacity at these events. That's why they don't mind paying for these, because it is seen as additional collaboration/problem solving time. but they 100% would not be okay with handing out additional money to those who do not wish to attend. Edit: To clarify as well, I don't think people should feel forced or inclined to attend these events for whatever reason they wish, this is just the argument I know and quite literally is in onboarding training I've taken.
- wott 5y ago
  > But surely “let’s knock off at three today and go down the pub, thanks for all the hard work” is a positive for most people? Definitely not. 1. I am not fond of drinking with workmates. An occasional, incidental, one-on-one or not much more: OK. In groups ("teams"): no thanks, this isn't school, we are not students, so no pseudo school party. 2. I abhor having drinks with people who have any kind of hierarchical power upon me.
  - the_mar 5y ago
    who hurt you? obviously don't get too drunk with coworkers, but do you know there is a way to have a drink or two and not turn it into a fraternity event
    - ecpottinger 5y ago
      And there is a way not to drink at all, it is called saying "NO!". What makes you think I want to even have one drink of alcohol?
  - late2part 5y ago
    There are people in this world who say "Don't trust a guy (or gal) who won't have a beer with you."
    - ecpottinger 5y ago
      And those are the people I do not trust.
  - TuringNYC 5y ago
    >> 2. I abhor having drinks with people who have any kind of hierarchical power upon me. Funny thing is the opposite isn't great either. I've seen a startup that likes doing this. Except all the decision-makers are in SF, not at the field office. So HH at the field office means none of the participants have any real power to see your passion, hear your ideas, or conversely for you to learn from their wisdom. It is still bonding for the team, but the team site is all terminal dead-end jobs.
- dr-detroit 5y ago
  Surely you're joking. Cracking a beer at 3:00PM is a classic sign of alcoholism.
- Spooky23 5y ago
  Some people will bitch and complain about anything. You could hand out $20 bills to everyone you see and in a big enough group someone will gripe. Imo the key is making sure you don’t create a perception that you punish or bully people for not participating. As evidenced by this thread, it’s easy to do even inadvertently.
  - late2part 5y ago
    Correct. But, is it ingrained griping? Or Social Inequity Aversion? I don't like beer, so if you get it and I have to watch stupid sports and drink water, I don't want you to have your reward? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_inequity_aversion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_inequity_aversion
    - Spooky23 5y ago
      In many cases, yes. Others will complain that coworkers are asocial or they don’t feel an atmosphere of camaraderie. It’s all part of the package if you manage people. As I said, you need to be careful to avoid behaving in a way that creates bad situations. (Ie I’m not advocating frat house behavior or alcohol culture at work)
- fastasucan 5y ago
  Not for me. If I'm not working i'd rather do my hobbies, excercise, be with my friends or gf. And I dont enjoy sitting in a pub. I'll be more than glad to take a walk with a co-worker. Play some sports together etc, but I really really don't want to feel like I am doing a mandatory activity with my job. Either I am working or not.
JohnWhigham 5y ago
Writing software in most companies is a team endeavor. If you can't handle interacting with others on a daily basis, find another industry. Better yet, start your own company.
- bluefirebrand 5y ago
  There is a huge difference between working on a team and the team essentially acting as a replacement for your social life. I love working on a team. I don't want to spend my free time with them. That's what my friends are for. Sometimes people from the team become friends that I spend time with outside of work, but that's on my terms not my employers. It really seems like many people do not have any kind of healthy boundary with their employer.
  - Ronson 5y ago
    I get away with being "The grumpy Scotsman", it's got the point that I don't even get invited which took some work but wouldn't have it any other way. I am still held in high regard at work and part of the furniture now. I just don't do that forced shit. It's not my personality.
legerdemain 5y ago
THIS, 100% this. I don't want to be "social" with you, I don't want to "bond" with you, and I don't care about you as a human being. You are 100% just a queue of work tasks and a source of pay checks. The less I see, hear, or know about the other people on my team, the happier I am and the better off they are. WFH forever, don't mess with a good thing.
- symlinkk 5y ago
  Completely sociopathic
- shannongreen 5y ago
  FWIW, I would hate working with someone like this. You don't have to be super active, socially, but treating the other people (and they _are_ people) on your team as just drones is a) not conducive to good collaboration and b) pretty damn rude.
  - IggleSniggle 5y ago
    It doesn’t have to be rude. Seeing it as rude is an imposition on those of us who don’t see it as rude. I’m pretty antisocial, personally, and love it when my workmates get to the point and focus on the actual “drone”-tasks. Why? Because that is why I do software. I don’t do software because I love people. I don’t do software because I love the paycheck. I do software because I love software and every second away from focusing on the concerns of producing quality software just seems like a genuine waste of time. Even here on HN, it’s mostly an opportunity to safely experiment with “politics” in a way that isn’t totally exhausting. I get that everyone is not like me, and I’m okay with that. I don’t expect everyone to have my preferences. I’d personally prefer to be treated as a respected “drone” (now THAT seems rude) and I don’t really want to spend time on banter, unless it’s being used as a metaphor that can improve our collective output. This is “fun.” This is why I “work” (it’s not work to me). Discussing requirements and problem solving solutions is great; it’s fun. Happy hour is “work” to me. Please don’t act like I’m rude just because I don’t share your preferences.
    - 5y ago
bpodgursky 5y ago
It's fine that some teams of workers don't socialize, and they aren't expected to socialize. It's fine that some teams of workers socialize, and are expected to socialize. It's fine for teams to select for people who will socially mesh with the office culture. Nobody here is wrong; just work at a company where the culture fits what you want. Not everybody wants or needs the same thing.
bluedino 5y ago
Closer team’s performance is probably higher than teams that don’t socialize together
- valand 5y ago
  The keyword here is "probably"

Classic comment missing the point that not everyone needs or wants the social interaction with their work mates.

by cujo 5y ago

Classic comment missing the point that not everyone needs or wants the social interaction with their work mates.

Not everyone of course, and one should be attentive to and accommodating of teammates that feel that way. But surely “let’s knock off at three today and go down the pub, thanks for all the hard work” is a positive for most people?

bluefirebrand 5y ago
"Thanks for all the hard work, let's knock off at three today" Is a positive. "Let's go down to the pub" is still capitalizing on my time. It's still work, just the location has changed. And in the past it has often started at 3 and then kept going and going until way later than if I'd just worked out my day. There is always some idealism around it like "oh if you don't drink you don't have to, just come hang out for a bit" or "you don't have to stay late you can leave early" but in practice people aren't actually that understanding. You try to head home and it's all "you're not having a good time?" Or "you're not a team player" No thanks. I'll pass on all of that from now on.
- ecpottinger 5y ago
  Exactly my experience.
- asdff 5y ago
  I can't believe that's real life for some people. I would never drink with someone who has "team player" in their dictionary unironically. That being said, the vast majority of my coworkers, all of them actually, are not robots like that. If they were, I would find a new job fast. If you are in a place like this currently, there are greener pastures my friend. Seek them out. Find people who don't care that you go home to beat traffic instead of hitting up the bar. They exist.
Angostura 5y ago
Try Let’s knock off at three today. I'm going down the pub - anyone care to join me? I'm buying."
- ivarv 5y ago
  An argument could be made that non-pub goers are still excluded from some kind of reward or compensation. If the buyer was spending their own personal money that might be one thing, but more often than not the funds come out of company expenses.
  - Jcampuzano2 5y ago
    In consulting companies I've worked for (and I'm inclined at least in part to agree) it would be argued that it is not necessarily equivalent to compensation since work is usually talked about in some capacity at these events. That's why they don't mind paying for these, because it is seen as additional collaboration/problem solving time. but they 100% would not be okay with handing out additional money to those who do not wish to attend. Edit: To clarify as well, I don't think people should feel forced or inclined to attend these events for whatever reason they wish, this is just the argument I know and quite literally is in onboarding training I've taken.
wott 5y ago
> But surely “let’s knock off at three today and go down the pub, thanks for all the hard work” is a positive for most people? Definitely not. 1. I am not fond of drinking with workmates. An occasional, incidental, one-on-one or not much more: OK. In groups ("teams"): no thanks, this isn't school, we are not students, so no pseudo school party. 2. I abhor having drinks with people who have any kind of hierarchical power upon me.
- the_mar 5y ago
  who hurt you? obviously don't get too drunk with coworkers, but do you know there is a way to have a drink or two and not turn it into a fraternity event
  - ecpottinger 5y ago
    And there is a way not to drink at all, it is called saying "NO!". What makes you think I want to even have one drink of alcohol?
- late2part 5y ago
  There are people in this world who say "Don't trust a guy (or gal) who won't have a beer with you."
  - ecpottinger 5y ago
    And those are the people I do not trust.
- TuringNYC 5y ago
  >> 2. I abhor having drinks with people who have any kind of hierarchical power upon me. Funny thing is the opposite isn't great either. I've seen a startup that likes doing this. Except all the decision-makers are in SF, not at the field office. So HH at the field office means none of the participants have any real power to see your passion, hear your ideas, or conversely for you to learn from their wisdom. It is still bonding for the team, but the team site is all terminal dead-end jobs.
dr-detroit 5y ago
Surely you're joking. Cracking a beer at 3:00PM is a classic sign of alcoholism.
Spooky23 5y ago
Some people will bitch and complain about anything. You could hand out $20 bills to everyone you see and in a big enough group someone will gripe. Imo the key is making sure you don’t create a perception that you punish or bully people for not participating. As evidenced by this thread, it’s easy to do even inadvertently.
- late2part 5y ago
  Correct. But, is it ingrained griping? Or Social Inequity Aversion? I don't like beer, so if you get it and I have to watch stupid sports and drink water, I don't want you to have your reward? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_inequity_aversion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_inequity_aversion
  - Spooky23 5y ago
    In many cases, yes. Others will complain that coworkers are asocial or they don’t feel an atmosphere of camaraderie. It’s all part of the package if you manage people. As I said, you need to be careful to avoid behaving in a way that creates bad situations. (Ie I’m not advocating frat house behavior or alcohol culture at work)
fastasucan 5y ago
Not for me. If I'm not working i'd rather do my hobbies, excercise, be with my friends or gf. And I dont enjoy sitting in a pub. I'll be more than glad to take a walk with a co-worker. Play some sports together etc, but I really really don't want to feel like I am doing a mandatory activity with my job. Either I am working or not.

JohnWhigham 5y ago

Writing software in most companies is a team endeavor. If you can't handle interacting with others on a daily basis, find another industry. Better yet, start your own company.

bluefirebrand 5y ago
There is a huge difference between working on a team and the team essentially acting as a replacement for your social life. I love working on a team. I don't want to spend my free time with them. That's what my friends are for. Sometimes people from the team become friends that I spend time with outside of work, but that's on my terms not my employers. It really seems like many people do not have any kind of healthy boundary with their employer.
- Ronson 5y ago
  I get away with being "The grumpy Scotsman", it's got the point that I don't even get invited which took some work but wouldn't have it any other way. I am still held in high regard at work and part of the furniture now. I just don't do that forced shit. It's not my personality.

legerdemain 5y ago

THIS, 100% this. I don't want to be "social" with you, I don't want to "bond" with you, and I don't care about you as a human being. You are 100% just a queue of work tasks and a source of pay checks. The less I see, hear, or know about the other people on my team, the happier I am and the better off they are. WFH forever, don't mess with a good thing.

symlinkk 5y ago
Completely sociopathic
shannongreen 5y ago
FWIW, I would hate working with someone like this. You don't have to be super active, socially, but treating the other people (and they _are_ people) on your team as just drones is a) not conducive to good collaboration and b) pretty damn rude.
- IggleSniggle 5y ago
  It doesn’t have to be rude. Seeing it as rude is an imposition on those of us who don’t see it as rude. I’m pretty antisocial, personally, and love it when my workmates get to the point and focus on the actual “drone”-tasks. Why? Because that is why I do software. I don’t do software because I love people. I don’t do software because I love the paycheck. I do software because I love software and every second away from focusing on the concerns of producing quality software just seems like a genuine waste of time. Even here on HN, it’s mostly an opportunity to safely experiment with “politics” in a way that isn’t totally exhausting. I get that everyone is not like me, and I’m okay with that. I don’t expect everyone to have my preferences. I’d personally prefer to be treated as a respected “drone” (now THAT seems rude) and I don’t really want to spend time on banter, unless it’s being used as a metaphor that can improve our collective output. This is “fun.” This is why I “work” (it’s not work to me). Discussing requirements and problem solving solutions is great; it’s fun. Happy hour is “work” to me. Please don’t act like I’m rude just because I don’t share your preferences.
  - 5y ago

bpodgursky 5y ago

It's fine that some teams of workers don't socialize, and they aren't expected to socialize. It's fine that some teams of workers socialize, and are expected to socialize. It's fine for teams to select for people who will socially mesh with the office culture. Nobody here is wrong; just work at a company where the culture fits what you want. Not everybody wants or needs the same thing.

bluedino 5y ago

Closer team’s performance is probably higher than teams that don’t socialize together

valand 5y ago
The keyword here is "probably"