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> I would reward them with HH and dinner/late meal. Maybe your team would appreciate a $200 gift card instead of HH + dinner/late meal, especially when some pe

> I would reward them with HH and dinner/late meal. Maybe your team would appreciate a $200 gift card instead of HH + dinner/late meal, especially when some people don't drink or prefer healthy meals instead of steakhouses.

JohnWhigham 5y ago
Classic HN missing the point of social interaction and the benefits it provides.
- cujo 5y ago
  Classic comment missing the point that not everyone needs or wants the social interaction with their work mates.
  - kristjansson 5y ago
    Not everyone of course, and one should be attentive to and accommodating of teammates that feel that way. But surely “let’s knock off at three today and go down the pub, thanks for all the hard work” is a positive for most people?
    - bluefirebrand 5y ago
      "Thanks for all the hard work, let's knock off at three today" Is a positive. "Let's go down to the pub" is still capitalizing on my time. It's still work, just the location has changed. And in the past it has often started at 3 and then kept going and going until way later than if I'd just worked out my day. There is always some idealism around it like "oh if you don't drink you don't have to, just come hang out for a bit" or "you don't have to stay late you can leave early" but in practice people aren't actually that understanding. You try to head home and it's all "you're not having a good time?" Or "you're not a team player" No thanks. I'll pass on all of that from now on.
      - ecpottinger 5y ago
        Exactly my experience.
      - asdff 5y ago
        I can't believe that's real life for some people. I would never drink with someone who has "team player" in their dictionary unironically. That being said, the vast majority of my coworkers, all of them actually, are not robots like that. If they were, I would find a new job fast. If you are in a place like this currently, there are greener pastures my friend. Seek them out. Find people who don't care that you go home to beat traffic instead of hitting up the bar. They exist.
    - Angostura 5y ago
      Try Let’s knock off at three today. I'm going down the pub - anyone care to join me? I'm buying."
      - ivarv 5y ago
        An argument could be made that non-pub goers are still excluded from some kind of reward or compensation. If the buyer was spending their own personal money that might be one thing, but more often than not the funds come out of company expenses.
        Jcampuzano2 5y ago
        In consulting companies I've worked for (and I'm inclined at least in part to agree) it would be argued that it is not necessarily equivalent to compensation since work is usually talked about in some capacity at these events. That's why they don't mind paying for these, because it is seen as additional collaboration/problem solving time. but they 100% would not be okay with handing out additional money to those who do not wish to attend. Edit: To clarify as well, I don't think people should feel forced or inclined to attend these events for whatever reason they wish, this is just the argument I know and quite literally is in onboarding training I've taken.
    - wott 5y ago
      > But surely “let’s knock off at three today and go down the pub, thanks for all the hard work” is a positive for most people? Definitely not. 1. I am not fond of drinking with workmates. An occasional, incidental, one-on-one or not much more: OK. In groups ("teams"): no thanks, this isn't school, we are not students, so no pseudo school party. 2. I abhor having drinks with people who have any kind of hierarchical power upon me.
      - the_mar 5y ago
        who hurt you? obviously don't get too drunk with coworkers, but do you know there is a way to have a drink or two and not turn it into a fraternity event
        ecpottinger 5y ago
        And there is a way not to drink at all, it is called saying "NO!". What makes you think I want to even have one drink of alcohol?
      - late2part 5y ago
        There are people in this world who say "Don't trust a guy (or gal) who won't have a beer with you."
        ecpottinger 5y ago
        And those are the people I do not trust.
      - TuringNYC 5y ago
        >> 2. I abhor having drinks with people who have any kind of hierarchical power upon me. Funny thing is the opposite isn't great either. I've seen a startup that likes doing this. Except all the decision-makers are in SF, not at the field office. So HH at the field office means none of the participants have any real power to see your passion, hear your ideas, or conversely for you to learn from their wisdom. It is still bonding for the team, but the team site is all terminal dead-end jobs.
    - dr-detroit 5y ago
      Surely you're joking. Cracking a beer at 3:00PM is a classic sign of alcoholism.
    - Spooky23 5y ago
      Some people will bitch and complain about anything. You could hand out $20 bills to everyone you see and in a big enough group someone will gripe. Imo the key is making sure you don’t create a perception that you punish or bully people for not participating. As evidenced by this thread, it’s easy to do even inadvertently.
      - late2part 5y ago
        Correct. But, is it ingrained griping? Or Social Inequity Aversion? I don't like beer, so if you get it and I have to watch stupid sports and drink water, I don't want you to have your reward? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_inequity_aversion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_inequity_aversion
        Spooky23 5y ago
        In many cases, yes. Others will complain that coworkers are asocial or they don’t feel an atmosphere of camaraderie. It’s all part of the package if you manage people. As I said, you need to be careful to avoid behaving in a way that creates bad situations. (Ie I’m not advocating frat house behavior or alcohol culture at work)
    - fastasucan 5y ago
      Not for me. If I'm not working i'd rather do my hobbies, excercise, be with my friends or gf. And I dont enjoy sitting in a pub. I'll be more than glad to take a walk with a co-worker. Play some sports together etc, but I really really don't want to feel like I am doing a mandatory activity with my job. Either I am working or not.
  - JohnWhigham 5y ago
    Writing software in most companies is a team endeavor. If you can't handle interacting with others on a daily basis, find another industry. Better yet, start your own company.
    - bluefirebrand 5y ago
      There is a huge difference between working on a team and the team essentially acting as a replacement for your social life. I love working on a team. I don't want to spend my free time with them. That's what my friends are for. Sometimes people from the team become friends that I spend time with outside of work, but that's on my terms not my employers. It really seems like many people do not have any kind of healthy boundary with their employer.
      - Ronson 5y ago
        I get away with being "The grumpy Scotsman", it's got the point that I don't even get invited which took some work but wouldn't have it any other way. I am still held in high regard at work and part of the furniture now. I just don't do that forced shit. It's not my personality.
  - legerdemain 5y ago
    THIS, 100% this. I don't want to be "social" with you, I don't want to "bond" with you, and I don't care about you as a human being. You are 100% just a queue of work tasks and a source of pay checks. The less I see, hear, or know about the other people on my team, the happier I am and the better off they are. WFH forever, don't mess with a good thing.
    - symlinkk 5y ago
      Completely sociopathic
    - shannongreen 5y ago
      FWIW, I would hate working with someone like this. You don't have to be super active, socially, but treating the other people (and they _are_ people) on your team as just drones is a) not conducive to good collaboration and b) pretty damn rude.
      - IggleSniggle 5y ago
        It doesn’t have to be rude. Seeing it as rude is an imposition on those of us who don’t see it as rude. I’m pretty antisocial, personally, and love it when my workmates get to the point and focus on the actual “drone”-tasks. Why? Because that is why I do software. I don’t do software because I love people. I don’t do software because I love the paycheck. I do software because I love software and every second away from focusing on the concerns of producing quality software just seems like a genuine waste of time. Even here on HN, it’s mostly an opportunity to safely experiment with “politics” in a way that isn’t totally exhausting. I get that everyone is not like me, and I’m okay with that. I don’t expect everyone to have my preferences. I’d personally prefer to be treated as a respected “drone” (now THAT seems rude) and I don’t really want to spend time on banter, unless it’s being used as a metaphor that can improve our collective output. This is “fun.” This is why I “work” (it’s not work to me). Discussing requirements and problem solving solutions is great; it’s fun. Happy hour is “work” to me. Please don’t act like I’m rude just because I don’t share your preferences.
        5y ago
  - bpodgursky 5y ago
    It's fine that some teams of workers don't socialize, and they aren't expected to socialize. It's fine that some teams of workers socialize, and are expected to socialize. It's fine for teams to select for people who will socially mesh with the office culture. Nobody here is wrong; just work at a company where the culture fits what you want. Not everybody wants or needs the same thing.
  - bluedino 5y ago
    Closer team’s performance is probably higher than teams that don’t socialize together
    - valand 5y ago
      The keyword here is "probably"
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  Then do it during work hours, and everyone wins.
  - tannedNerd 5y ago
    Seriously this is the best solution. Instead of after work, do a (virtual or not) HH at 3 on Friday. People don’t have to donate free time and will appreciate it much more.
    - bluefirebrand 5y ago
      I'd still bet that many people would rather just go home early on a Friday. I know I would.
      - valand 5y ago
        But at least HH on time allocated from work does not demand more time from the participants, which is a win.
        fastasucan 5y ago
        Until monday comes and everyone has to take up the slack from friday.
  - shard 5y ago
    My previous company had done mid-week outings (definitely not Fridays, people want to go home), where everyone in the team kicks off at 3PM, go see a movie together (the team splitting up based on what movie they wanted to see), then have a nice dinner, with games and prizes at the end at around 7PM. I won a Nintendo Switch one time. It wasn't a bad way to spend an afternoon.
- CoastalCoder 5y ago
  I think the problem with something like (specifically) Happy Hour is that it's really welcome by some employees, and really hated by others. Imagine being one of the few Mormons, observant Muslims, or recovering alcoholics at a company that "rewards" your team with Happy Hours. Or being someone who's been sexually harassed or assaulted at previous events where coworkers drank too much. I'm not suggesting that it's easy (or even possible) to plan a social event that's guaranteed to be welcomed by every member of a team. But I think events that focus or rely on alcohol as the means of team bonding can be a bad idea depending on the team.
  - lamontcg 5y ago
    Imagine just being someone who is an introvert and feels exhausted after hanging out with people 8 hours a day in an office, who really can't put up with being around other people for 12+ hours a day... I'm much better with a long lunch + socialize and then piss off early from work as a reward.
  - asdff 5y ago
    What you describe, company sponsored fun times, sound a little toxic. But just buddies hanging out is a valuable option for people who need a social outlet. A lot of times, after undergrad and you move to a new city, it becomes exceedingly difficult to meet other people and make friends. You don't have to be friends with your coworkers, but if you are, even shitty jobs can feel a lot more bearable in my experience. In the beforetimes we had a standing happyhour. Some coworkers never showed up and that was fine. Some showed up but only drank water and that was also fine. If you work somewhere that alienates you instead of not caring at all about the highschool clicky bullshit, I'd run for the hills.
- topkai22 5y ago
  Following up late nights working by expecting people to attend an after-work event is not a benefit to the worker. As others have said, having a big team lunch and then sending them home is a benefit.
- acituan 5y ago
  ROI for workplace schmoozing is not the same, let alone positive, for all job ladders and levels.
- bigbillheck 5y ago
  When I was single and in my 20s / early 30s I was a big fan of the happy hour / dinner option, but I'm old now and have a partner and a dog and even when I like my co-workers I'd rather just go home and be with them.
- hparadiz 5y ago
  Stop assuming people like to drink.
  - smabie 5y ago
    I mean, I think most people do like to drink? Am I wrong? I know I like to drink.
    - valand 5y ago
      Most people around you might. There are people who don't like to drink and there are people who are not allowed to drink due to their believe/health problem. And they are not minority-minority in some places
    - ecpottinger 5y ago
      YES! You are thinking the whole world is the same as your location.
      - hparadiz 5y ago
        It's not even that. American work drinking culture is just not up to par. You're expected to pound coffee all day then go and drink on an empty stomach at 5 before you've eaten dinner. It's just not realistic. Heaven forbid my first meal of the day is lunch and not breakfast. People who have "normal" eating habits just can't understand.
  - novok 5y ago
    As someone who never has drunk, it's fine. You just drink fizzy water, diet coke and free food or whatever and nobody gives a shit. It's a work happy hour, nobody should be getting drunk and nobody notices.
    - heavyset_go 5y ago
      It excludes people who have very good reasons to not be around alcohol, and not people who just don't like it.
- rewgs 5y ago
  I have 30+ food allergies that developed as an adult (which includes alcohol). Yes, it's ridiculous. I literally cannot eat food that isn't prepared by me from a hilariously small and ever-shrinking list of approved ingredients. I also can't prepare food more than a day in advance due to a histamine intolerance (food grows in histamine count as it sits in the fridge), so roughly 50% of my free time is spent cooking, else I starve. I find these kinds of social outings shitty because I'm invariably left out, asked why I'm left out, and now we're talking about my health issues. Politely declining is never met as well as you'd like it to be (people always insist), so either I forcefully decline so as to avoid option #2 (and people think I'm an asshole); or I take option #2 and talk about it, and am now sad because it sucks and will never stop sucking and I don't really like bringing it up. Then, the following script: everyone gives the minimum pity, commensurate with social niceties. At least two people tell me about their experiences with food intolerances (not even remotely the same thing) and how they got over it (which is not possible with adult-developed food allergies), or they suggest that it's leaky-gut (not scientifically-proven to exist; god knows I've looked into it regardless), or suggest acupuncture, or some other pseudoscience bullshit. Now I get to either choose to tumble head-first into yet another unpaid lecture on the nuances of food allergies, and perhaps inform them as to why what they're suggesting isn't scientifically sound (which is bound to offend, no matter how nicely I say it, because pseudoscience and pop-science is believed with near-religious fervor; the best I'm gonna get is "agree to disagree," so it's not worth it). Or -- my preferred choice nowadays -- I nod and smile and thank them for their novel, sage advice, and tell them I'll be sure to contact the homeopath they suggested first thing tomorrow, as I'm sure that, finally, now, thanks to their intervention, my nightmare is about to come to an end. At this point, an uncomfortable amount of people are listening to me. I mumble something about "and..uh...yeah." Someone stumbles to change the subject, the wheels of conversation spin in the mud for a while before finally getting back to normal -- and everyone subtly ignores me for the rest of the night, lest I bring down the mood or suck the air out of the room again. I've been through this song and dance so many times, I'm completely over it and now just avoid it altogether. Which sucks, because now you're the social pariah that never wants to hang out (because virtually all social gatherings revolve around food). I want nothing more than to enjoy good food and drink with my friends and peers and to be happy and merry and well-fed and buzzed. That used to be my element. It's a touchy subject, because prior to age 30, I was the biggest "foodie" and craft beer freak you've ever met. Finding a new restaurant or trying something I'd never eaten before was literally my favorite activity, period. I was legendary for my weight-to-ability-to-pound-food ratio (I've always been a stick). Now, it's rice and chicken (no spices!) from here to the grave. Washed down with water, and nothing but. Coffee in the morning is fine -- thankfully, I'm not yet allergic to that (no OJ, though). I hate that my best option is "lie and smile" -- saying "I'm not hungry" (when I'm actually starving, made worse by watching everyone else eat and enjoy the camaraderie that only a shared meal can bring, slowly losing blood sugar and trying in vain to combat the moodiness that always accompanies it); or "I need to wake up early" (as an excuse for no drinks; otherwise some asshole pressures you to drink anyway or someone across the table gives you a knowing nod, thinking they've found another fellow AA attendee, which now you'll be talking about later). And because it smells pretty bad socially to ask for that Happy Hour "compensation" be paid in another way ("hey, mind giving me a check for the money you would've spent on my meal and drinks?" will obviously never fly), I'm now just getting literally paid less than everyone else, and getting left out, and being labelled a social pariah no matter which of the above paths I take. It sucks. Life and people are infinitely complex and varied, and those of us reluctantly pushed outside of the mainstream normal are constantly fighting to simply be understood, let alone to not have the only choices thrust upon us be ridiculed.
- ulfw 5y ago
  It's a job, not a social club
codyb 5y ago
Maybe just offer the option to accomodate people and how they feel at whatever moment you in time you’d like to reward them during.

JohnWhigham 5y ago

Classic HN missing the point of social interaction and the benefits it provides.

cujo 5y ago
Classic comment missing the point that not everyone needs or wants the social interaction with their work mates.
- kristjansson 5y ago
  Not everyone of course, and one should be attentive to and accommodating of teammates that feel that way. But surely “let’s knock off at three today and go down the pub, thanks for all the hard work” is a positive for most people?
  - bluefirebrand 5y ago
    "Thanks for all the hard work, let's knock off at three today" Is a positive. "Let's go down to the pub" is still capitalizing on my time. It's still work, just the location has changed. And in the past it has often started at 3 and then kept going and going until way later than if I'd just worked out my day. There is always some idealism around it like "oh if you don't drink you don't have to, just come hang out for a bit" or "you don't have to stay late you can leave early" but in practice people aren't actually that understanding. You try to head home and it's all "you're not having a good time?" Or "you're not a team player" No thanks. I'll pass on all of that from now on.
    - ecpottinger 5y ago
      Exactly my experience.
    - asdff 5y ago
      I can't believe that's real life for some people. I would never drink with someone who has "team player" in their dictionary unironically. That being said, the vast majority of my coworkers, all of them actually, are not robots like that. If they were, I would find a new job fast. If you are in a place like this currently, there are greener pastures my friend. Seek them out. Find people who don't care that you go home to beat traffic instead of hitting up the bar. They exist.
  - Angostura 5y ago
    Try Let’s knock off at three today. I'm going down the pub - anyone care to join me? I'm buying."
    - ivarv 5y ago
      An argument could be made that non-pub goers are still excluded from some kind of reward or compensation. If the buyer was spending their own personal money that might be one thing, but more often than not the funds come out of company expenses.
      - Jcampuzano2 5y ago
        In consulting companies I've worked for (and I'm inclined at least in part to agree) it would be argued that it is not necessarily equivalent to compensation since work is usually talked about in some capacity at these events. That's why they don't mind paying for these, because it is seen as additional collaboration/problem solving time. but they 100% would not be okay with handing out additional money to those who do not wish to attend. Edit: To clarify as well, I don't think people should feel forced or inclined to attend these events for whatever reason they wish, this is just the argument I know and quite literally is in onboarding training I've taken.
  - wott 5y ago
    > But surely “let’s knock off at three today and go down the pub, thanks for all the hard work” is a positive for most people? Definitely not. 1. I am not fond of drinking with workmates. An occasional, incidental, one-on-one or not much more: OK. In groups ("teams"): no thanks, this isn't school, we are not students, so no pseudo school party. 2. I abhor having drinks with people who have any kind of hierarchical power upon me.
    - the_mar 5y ago
      who hurt you? obviously don't get too drunk with coworkers, but do you know there is a way to have a drink or two and not turn it into a fraternity event
      - ecpottinger 5y ago
        And there is a way not to drink at all, it is called saying "NO!". What makes you think I want to even have one drink of alcohol?
    - late2part 5y ago
      There are people in this world who say "Don't trust a guy (or gal) who won't have a beer with you."
      - ecpottinger 5y ago
        And those are the people I do not trust.
    - TuringNYC 5y ago
      >> 2. I abhor having drinks with people who have any kind of hierarchical power upon me. Funny thing is the opposite isn't great either. I've seen a startup that likes doing this. Except all the decision-makers are in SF, not at the field office. So HH at the field office means none of the participants have any real power to see your passion, hear your ideas, or conversely for you to learn from their wisdom. It is still bonding for the team, but the team site is all terminal dead-end jobs.
  - dr-detroit 5y ago
    Surely you're joking. Cracking a beer at 3:00PM is a classic sign of alcoholism.
  - Spooky23 5y ago
    Some people will bitch and complain about anything. You could hand out $20 bills to everyone you see and in a big enough group someone will gripe. Imo the key is making sure you don’t create a perception that you punish or bully people for not participating. As evidenced by this thread, it’s easy to do even inadvertently.
    - late2part 5y ago
      Correct. But, is it ingrained griping? Or Social Inequity Aversion? I don't like beer, so if you get it and I have to watch stupid sports and drink water, I don't want you to have your reward? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_inequity_aversion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_inequity_aversion
      - Spooky23 5y ago
        In many cases, yes. Others will complain that coworkers are asocial or they don’t feel an atmosphere of camaraderie. It’s all part of the package if you manage people. As I said, you need to be careful to avoid behaving in a way that creates bad situations. (Ie I’m not advocating frat house behavior or alcohol culture at work)
  - fastasucan 5y ago
    Not for me. If I'm not working i'd rather do my hobbies, excercise, be with my friends or gf. And I dont enjoy sitting in a pub. I'll be more than glad to take a walk with a co-worker. Play some sports together etc, but I really really don't want to feel like I am doing a mandatory activity with my job. Either I am working or not.
- JohnWhigham 5y ago
  Writing software in most companies is a team endeavor. If you can't handle interacting with others on a daily basis, find another industry. Better yet, start your own company.
  - bluefirebrand 5y ago
    There is a huge difference between working on a team and the team essentially acting as a replacement for your social life. I love working on a team. I don't want to spend my free time with them. That's what my friends are for. Sometimes people from the team become friends that I spend time with outside of work, but that's on my terms not my employers. It really seems like many people do not have any kind of healthy boundary with their employer.
    - Ronson 5y ago
      I get away with being "The grumpy Scotsman", it's got the point that I don't even get invited which took some work but wouldn't have it any other way. I am still held in high regard at work and part of the furniture now. I just don't do that forced shit. It's not my personality.
- legerdemain 5y ago
  THIS, 100% this. I don't want to be "social" with you, I don't want to "bond" with you, and I don't care about you as a human being. You are 100% just a queue of work tasks and a source of pay checks. The less I see, hear, or know about the other people on my team, the happier I am and the better off they are. WFH forever, don't mess with a good thing.
  - symlinkk 5y ago
    Completely sociopathic
  - shannongreen 5y ago
    FWIW, I would hate working with someone like this. You don't have to be super active, socially, but treating the other people (and they _are_ people) on your team as just drones is a) not conducive to good collaboration and b) pretty damn rude.
    - IggleSniggle 5y ago
      It doesn’t have to be rude. Seeing it as rude is an imposition on those of us who don’t see it as rude. I’m pretty antisocial, personally, and love it when my workmates get to the point and focus on the actual “drone”-tasks. Why? Because that is why I do software. I don’t do software because I love people. I don’t do software because I love the paycheck. I do software because I love software and every second away from focusing on the concerns of producing quality software just seems like a genuine waste of time. Even here on HN, it’s mostly an opportunity to safely experiment with “politics” in a way that isn’t totally exhausting. I get that everyone is not like me, and I’m okay with that. I don’t expect everyone to have my preferences. I’d personally prefer to be treated as a respected “drone” (now THAT seems rude) and I don’t really want to spend time on banter, unless it’s being used as a metaphor that can improve our collective output. This is “fun.” This is why I “work” (it’s not work to me). Discussing requirements and problem solving solutions is great; it’s fun. Happy hour is “work” to me. Please don’t act like I’m rude just because I don’t share your preferences.
      - 5y ago
- bpodgursky 5y ago
  It's fine that some teams of workers don't socialize, and they aren't expected to socialize. It's fine that some teams of workers socialize, and are expected to socialize. It's fine for teams to select for people who will socially mesh with the office culture. Nobody here is wrong; just work at a company where the culture fits what you want. Not everybody wants or needs the same thing.
- bluedino 5y ago
  Closer team’s performance is probably higher than teams that don’t socialize together
  - valand 5y ago
    The keyword here is "probably"
lotsofpulp 5y ago
Then do it during work hours, and everyone wins.
- tannedNerd 5y ago
  Seriously this is the best solution. Instead of after work, do a (virtual or not) HH at 3 on Friday. People don’t have to donate free time and will appreciate it much more.
  - bluefirebrand 5y ago
    I'd still bet that many people would rather just go home early on a Friday. I know I would.
    - valand 5y ago
      But at least HH on time allocated from work does not demand more time from the participants, which is a win.
      - fastasucan 5y ago
        Until monday comes and everyone has to take up the slack from friday.
- shard 5y ago
  My previous company had done mid-week outings (definitely not Fridays, people want to go home), where everyone in the team kicks off at 3PM, go see a movie together (the team splitting up based on what movie they wanted to see), then have a nice dinner, with games and prizes at the end at around 7PM. I won a Nintendo Switch one time. It wasn't a bad way to spend an afternoon.
CoastalCoder 5y ago
I think the problem with something like (specifically) Happy Hour is that it's really welcome by some employees, and really hated by others. Imagine being one of the few Mormons, observant Muslims, or recovering alcoholics at a company that "rewards" your team with Happy Hours. Or being someone who's been sexually harassed or assaulted at previous events where coworkers drank too much. I'm not suggesting that it's easy (or even possible) to plan a social event that's guaranteed to be welcomed by every member of a team. But I think events that focus or rely on alcohol as the means of team bonding can be a bad idea depending on the team.
- lamontcg 5y ago
  Imagine just being someone who is an introvert and feels exhausted after hanging out with people 8 hours a day in an office, who really can't put up with being around other people for 12+ hours a day... I'm much better with a long lunch + socialize and then piss off early from work as a reward.
- asdff 5y ago
  What you describe, company sponsored fun times, sound a little toxic. But just buddies hanging out is a valuable option for people who need a social outlet. A lot of times, after undergrad and you move to a new city, it becomes exceedingly difficult to meet other people and make friends. You don't have to be friends with your coworkers, but if you are, even shitty jobs can feel a lot more bearable in my experience. In the beforetimes we had a standing happyhour. Some coworkers never showed up and that was fine. Some showed up but only drank water and that was also fine. If you work somewhere that alienates you instead of not caring at all about the highschool clicky bullshit, I'd run for the hills.
topkai22 5y ago
Following up late nights working by expecting people to attend an after-work event is not a benefit to the worker. As others have said, having a big team lunch and then sending them home is a benefit.
acituan 5y ago
ROI for workplace schmoozing is not the same, let alone positive, for all job ladders and levels.
bigbillheck 5y ago
When I was single and in my 20s / early 30s I was a big fan of the happy hour / dinner option, but I'm old now and have a partner and a dog and even when I like my co-workers I'd rather just go home and be with them.
hparadiz 5y ago
Stop assuming people like to drink.
- smabie 5y ago
  I mean, I think most people do like to drink? Am I wrong? I know I like to drink.
  - valand 5y ago
    Most people around you might. There are people who don't like to drink and there are people who are not allowed to drink due to their believe/health problem. And they are not minority-minority in some places
  - ecpottinger 5y ago
    YES! You are thinking the whole world is the same as your location.
    - hparadiz 5y ago
      It's not even that. American work drinking culture is just not up to par. You're expected to pound coffee all day then go and drink on an empty stomach at 5 before you've eaten dinner. It's just not realistic. Heaven forbid my first meal of the day is lunch and not breakfast. People who have "normal" eating habits just can't understand.
- novok 5y ago
  As someone who never has drunk, it's fine. You just drink fizzy water, diet coke and free food or whatever and nobody gives a shit. It's a work happy hour, nobody should be getting drunk and nobody notices.
  - heavyset_go 5y ago
    It excludes people who have very good reasons to not be around alcohol, and not people who just don't like it.
rewgs 5y ago
I have 30+ food allergies that developed as an adult (which includes alcohol). Yes, it's ridiculous. I literally cannot eat food that isn't prepared by me from a hilariously small and ever-shrinking list of approved ingredients. I also can't prepare food more than a day in advance due to a histamine intolerance (food grows in histamine count as it sits in the fridge), so roughly 50% of my free time is spent cooking, else I starve. I find these kinds of social outings shitty because I'm invariably left out, asked why I'm left out, and now we're talking about my health issues. Politely declining is never met as well as you'd like it to be (people always insist), so either I forcefully decline so as to avoid option #2 (and people think I'm an asshole); or I take option #2 and talk about it, and am now sad because it sucks and will never stop sucking and I don't really like bringing it up. Then, the following script: everyone gives the minimum pity, commensurate with social niceties. At least two people tell me about their experiences with food intolerances (not even remotely the same thing) and how they got over it (which is not possible with adult-developed food allergies), or they suggest that it's leaky-gut (not scientifically-proven to exist; god knows I've looked into it regardless), or suggest acupuncture, or some other pseudoscience bullshit. Now I get to either choose to tumble head-first into yet another unpaid lecture on the nuances of food allergies, and perhaps inform them as to why what they're suggesting isn't scientifically sound (which is bound to offend, no matter how nicely I say it, because pseudoscience and pop-science is believed with near-religious fervor; the best I'm gonna get is "agree to disagree," so it's not worth it). Or -- my preferred choice nowadays -- I nod and smile and thank them for their novel, sage advice, and tell them I'll be sure to contact the homeopath they suggested first thing tomorrow, as I'm sure that, finally, now, thanks to their intervention, my nightmare is about to come to an end. At this point, an uncomfortable amount of people are listening to me. I mumble something about "and..uh...yeah." Someone stumbles to change the subject, the wheels of conversation spin in the mud for a while before finally getting back to normal -- and everyone subtly ignores me for the rest of the night, lest I bring down the mood or suck the air out of the room again. I've been through this song and dance so many times, I'm completely over it and now just avoid it altogether. Which sucks, because now you're the social pariah that never wants to hang out (because virtually all social gatherings revolve around food). I want nothing more than to enjoy good food and drink with my friends and peers and to be happy and merry and well-fed and buzzed. That used to be my element. It's a touchy subject, because prior to age 30, I was the biggest "foodie" and craft beer freak you've ever met. Finding a new restaurant or trying something I'd never eaten before was literally my favorite activity, period. I was legendary for my weight-to-ability-to-pound-food ratio (I've always been a stick). Now, it's rice and chicken (no spices!) from here to the grave. Washed down with water, and nothing but. Coffee in the morning is fine -- thankfully, I'm not yet allergic to that (no OJ, though). I hate that my best option is "lie and smile" -- saying "I'm not hungry" (when I'm actually starving, made worse by watching everyone else eat and enjoy the camaraderie that only a shared meal can bring, slowly losing blood sugar and trying in vain to combat the moodiness that always accompanies it); or "I need to wake up early" (as an excuse for no drinks; otherwise some asshole pressures you to drink anyway or someone across the table gives you a knowing nod, thinking they've found another fellow AA attendee, which now you'll be talking about later). And because it smells pretty bad socially to ask for that Happy Hour "compensation" be paid in another way ("hey, mind giving me a check for the money you would've spent on my meal and drinks?" will obviously never fly), I'm now just getting literally paid less than everyone else, and getting left out, and being labelled a social pariah no matter which of the above paths I take. It sucks. Life and people are infinitely complex and varied, and those of us reluctantly pushed outside of the mainstream normal are constantly fighting to simply be understood, let alone to not have the only choices thrust upon us be ridiculed.
ulfw 5y ago
It's a job, not a social club

codyb 5y ago

Maybe just offer the option to accomodate people and how they feel at whatever moment you in time you’d like to reward them during.