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Hot take: this, as some like Ars Technica have observed, stands a decent chance of being a real game changer. Everything about this vehicle launch appears mast

Hot take: this, as some like Ars Technica have observed, stands a decent chance of being a real game changer. Everything about this vehicle launch appears masterful, from its technology to its branding to the obvious care taken to ensure that in almost every respect it is so superior, and offers so many no-brainers, as to make anyone who can (both individuals and especially, fleet managers), buy these as fast they can. This thing has more than one killer app. The biggest by far IMO is its ability to power high voltage high draw tools at the jobsite. If you have never worked on a jobsite, this is a BFD. This is itself a game changer, it offers the ability to "disrupt" in a material way a whole class of project. Logistics just got 20% simpler and projects 30% cheaper. Sure, it can go super fast; yes, you can lock your stuff in the truck... But the other killer feature for fleet owners is that these are remotely manageable. Your fleet now has detailed telemetry and its only going to get better. And this is on launch. We just got a RAV4 Prime and if I didn't live in SF proper, I might be seriously regretting not waiting for this thing. (I don't, and don't think this makes sense in the city.) If we move to e.g. Sonoma and work remote? This would be that no brainer. Hallelujah. Now, to invest in Ford...

rootusrootus 5y ago
To be fair, some of these features are available on the recently released hybrid, as well. What I would like to figure out is if it can actually backfeed the home with 240V split phase power. That would be a seriously big deal if it could, it's not a common generator feature as it is. I'm skeptical, but they did claim it could transition from charging to supplying the house and back to charging when the power returned. Probably some fine print there where they say "only with the 120V charger". Otherwise, that would just be killer. An automatic whole-house UPS that can easily support all your needs for hours or even a couple days in a pinch.
- madengr 5y ago
  Yes it can, through the Ford EVSE (i.e. charger).
- wearywanderer 5y ago
  Backfeeding houses with generators is indeed a killer feature... but not in the way you mean. It can be done safety, but when done incorrectly (if the house isn't removed from the grid first) it can kill linemen. It's a good thing most generators a homeowner might causally buy at the hardware store don't have this feature. Unfortunately I've seen male-to-male extension cords sold online for this purpose. I think these are actually illegal, at least in some places. https://www.cdc.gov/disasters/elecgenerators.html https://www.cdc.gov/disasters/elecgenerators.html
  - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
    > Backfeeding houses with generators is indeed a killer feature... oh, you mean like solar PV on-grid setups ...
    - wearywanderer 5y ago
      Those are generally fine because they are generally installed and configured by licensed electricians. Generators with suicide-cables installed by homeowner Joe Blow are the problem.
      - FooHentai 5y ago
        Close. It's not the electricians qualifications that make it safe, it's a feature in generating home inverters called 'anti-islanding'. A correct install is of course also required as it's possible to screw up and unintentionally cripple this important safety feature.
    - michaelt 5y ago
      Your basic solar inverter monitors the grid voltage, and if the grid goes down it stops generating. Needless to say, if you're looking for a backup power source this isn't a property you want.
      - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
- zrail 5y ago
  The language on the site talks about requiring a whole house manual or automatic transfer switch. Plus the thing has a 240v outlet. (presumably split phase, 240v single phase is not common in US residential settings). I wonder if the wiring is basically plug the 240v split phase into a special outlet in the house that feeds the transfer switch. The 80amp charger is then just a charger. Could be completely wrong though. We'll know more at launch.
  - odonnellryan 5y ago
    That is basically how generators work.
    - zrail 5y ago
      Right. The backup function will require the house be set up with a transfer switch and the appropriate inlet setup, just like a whole house generator. The interesting bit is just the fact that the truck has a 240v split phase inverter built-in and ready to go.
jes 5y ago
The biggest by far IMO is its ability to power high voltage high draw tools at the jobsite. I have a TIG welder and a solid state linear amplifier that I'd love to be able to power from my truck instead of from a generator.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
blueprint 5y ago
> The biggest by far IMO is its ability to power high voltage high draw tools at the jobsite. The hybrid F-150 could already do that.
- vb6sp6 5y ago
  Not for 40k
pmorici 5y ago
The features and specs feel mediocre compared to CyberTruck. The only thing that looked perhaps better was the frunk size and access but everything else CyberTruck is clearly better even price and most definitely on the most important spec of all, range.
- carlivar 5y ago
  The Cybertruck is coming from a leader with a history of hasty, half baked communication. If you think the Cybertruck will be out this year or exactly as pictured and specified... well I think that is extremely unlikely. A production prototype doesn't even exist yet.
  - adventured 5y ago
    The Cybertruck is going to end up being a sales disaster after the initial sensationalism rapidly wears off. Sales will fade, it'll end up as a gimmick. Large numbers of consumers don't want to drive/use/own something that looks like that, they want something that looks like a normal truck. Cybertruck is Musk's equivalent of the Mac G4 Cube ego mistake, except far worse. He understood that electric vehicles should look like existing conceptions of vehicles, things people can easily identify with as being vehicles they'd want to drive, but electric and maybe sexy + better in various boring functional ways. He abandoned that with the Cybertruck, and it'll bomb accordingly over time. Meanwhile Ford will sell a bazillion electric trucks, and humiliate Tesla's efforts in the space (in his inability to be humble, Musk will fall back on claiming Cybertruck is superior, even as it doesn't sell very well). Tesla should have acquired Ford in a stock swap, left it an independent operating entity, and electrified their trucks; or acquired a huge minority position (in a stock swap) if the Ford family wouldn't go for a full acquisition. They should have done that years ago. They were too self-absorbed to see the obvious opportunity. The electrified trucks would be enormous profit centers. Now, instead, Tesla will almost entirely miss out on the zillion dollar electric truck market, which they could have had a big slice of. Tesla's only shot is to abandon Cybertruck and build a normal looking truck, which they won't do for several years until the pain from the embarrassment overwhelms Musk's ego problems (otherwise they'll just leave Cybertruck as a low volume trinket in their lineup, or abandon the space entirely).
rasz 5y ago
>vehicle launch Product launch is when something is released and you can buy it, not when someone published plans and best wishes.
nickik 5y ago
Äh I have to disagree. This is far, far, far less of a game changer compared to the Cybertruck. It basically worse and more expensive at everything and its very unlikely Ford can build close to as many as the Cybertruck. Simply because of batteries alone and other production capacity as well (a lot is shared with the other F150s). Its really slow charging considering the time it will come out. If you want to use this to transport anything its range is worse compared to the Cybertruck and its gone charge much slower. This will likely sell well and they will likely sell as many as they can make. But that doesn't make it a game changer. This will sell well but
- nikau 5y ago
  Yes I'm sure ford will struggle as they only make 4+ million plus vehicles a year, nowhere near teslas bumper crop of 180k a quarter...
  - nickik 5y ago
    Oh this old bad argument warmed up again. Remember when 5 years ago people claimed that as soon car companies make electric cars they would outsell Tesla? Well the fact is that Tesla sells more EV by far then even VW by a large amount. Scaling BEV production is hard, and just because for produces lots of ICE cars does not mean they can magically produce lots of EVs. Do yourself a favor and actually learn about BEV production and supply chain issues.
    - nikau 5y ago
      > Remember when 5 years ago people claimed that as soon car companies make electric cars they would outsell Tesla? Remember 5 years ago when Telsa fans claimed BEV range and acceleration wasn't possible for legacy automakers? Ford sell more F series vehicles per year than all tesla models combined - why are you assuming they need to pivot asap to EV only?
      - nickik 5y ago
        > Remember 5 years ago when Telsa fans claimed BEV range and acceleration wasn't possible for legacy automakers? No, I don't. Its the opposite, most people were saying that legacy makers could do it eventually but they need to make massive investments in EV production, and guess what, they did. Tesla fan were actually right, it took way longer then people said for real mass market EV to come out. But of course Tesla got the lead and they are not just outselling everybody else and are still among the leaders in performance and efficiency. > Ford sell more F series vehicles per year than all tesla models combined - why are you assuming they need to pivot asap to EV only? They don't but in a few years EV version will outperform the alternative ICE version along pretty much every dimension and there will be huge demand for EV trucks. The question is if you at that point have the capacity to produce them in accordance with demand.
ngcc_hk 5y ago
game changer It is as it is not a truck but a Mobile power source.

rootusrootus 5y ago

To be fair, some of these features are available on the recently released hybrid, as well. What I would like to figure out is if it can actually backfeed the home with 240V split phase power. That would be a seriously big deal if it could, it's not a common generator feature as it is. I'm skeptical, but they did claim it could transition from charging to supplying the house and back to charging when the power returned. Probably some fine print there where they say "only with the 120V charger". Otherwise, that would just be killer. An automatic whole-house UPS that can easily support all your needs for hours or even a couple days in a pinch.

madengr 5y ago
Yes it can, through the Ford EVSE (i.e. charger).
wearywanderer 5y ago
Backfeeding houses with generators is indeed a killer feature... but not in the way you mean. It can be done safety, but when done incorrectly (if the house isn't removed from the grid first) it can kill linemen. It's a good thing most generators a homeowner might causally buy at the hardware store don't have this feature. Unfortunately I've seen male-to-male extension cords sold online for this purpose. I think these are actually illegal, at least in some places. https://www.cdc.gov/disasters/elecgenerators.html https://www.cdc.gov/disasters/elecgenerators.html
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
  > Backfeeding houses with generators is indeed a killer feature... oh, you mean like solar PV on-grid setups ...
  - wearywanderer 5y ago
    Those are generally fine because they are generally installed and configured by licensed electricians. Generators with suicide-cables installed by homeowner Joe Blow are the problem.
    - FooHentai 5y ago
      Close. It's not the electricians qualifications that make it safe, it's a feature in generating home inverters called 'anti-islanding'. A correct install is of course also required as it's possible to screw up and unintentionally cripple this important safety feature.
  - michaelt 5y ago
    Your basic solar inverter monitors the grid voltage, and if the grid goes down it stops generating. Needless to say, if you're looking for a backup power source this isn't a property you want.
    - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
zrail 5y ago
The language on the site talks about requiring a whole house manual or automatic transfer switch. Plus the thing has a 240v outlet. (presumably split phase, 240v single phase is not common in US residential settings). I wonder if the wiring is basically plug the 240v split phase into a special outlet in the house that feeds the transfer switch. The 80amp charger is then just a charger. Could be completely wrong though. We'll know more at launch.
- odonnellryan 5y ago
  That is basically how generators work.
  - zrail 5y ago
    Right. The backup function will require the house be set up with a transfer switch and the appropriate inlet setup, just like a whole house generator. The interesting bit is just the fact that the truck has a 240v split phase inverter built-in and ready to go.

jes 5y ago

The biggest by far IMO is its ability to power high voltage high draw tools at the jobsite. I have a TIG welder and a solid state linear amplifier that I'd love to be able to power from my truck instead of from a generator.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

blueprint 5y ago

> The biggest by far IMO is its ability to power high voltage high draw tools at the jobsite. The hybrid F-150 could already do that.

vb6sp6 5y ago
Not for 40k

pmorici 5y ago

The features and specs feel mediocre compared to CyberTruck. The only thing that looked perhaps better was the frunk size and access but everything else CyberTruck is clearly better even price and most definitely on the most important spec of all, range.

carlivar 5y ago
The Cybertruck is coming from a leader with a history of hasty, half baked communication. If you think the Cybertruck will be out this year or exactly as pictured and specified... well I think that is extremely unlikely. A production prototype doesn't even exist yet.
- adventured 5y ago
  The Cybertruck is going to end up being a sales disaster after the initial sensationalism rapidly wears off. Sales will fade, it'll end up as a gimmick. Large numbers of consumers don't want to drive/use/own something that looks like that, they want something that looks like a normal truck. Cybertruck is Musk's equivalent of the Mac G4 Cube ego mistake, except far worse. He understood that electric vehicles should look like existing conceptions of vehicles, things people can easily identify with as being vehicles they'd want to drive, but electric and maybe sexy + better in various boring functional ways. He abandoned that with the Cybertruck, and it'll bomb accordingly over time. Meanwhile Ford will sell a bazillion electric trucks, and humiliate Tesla's efforts in the space (in his inability to be humble, Musk will fall back on claiming Cybertruck is superior, even as it doesn't sell very well). Tesla should have acquired Ford in a stock swap, left it an independent operating entity, and electrified their trucks; or acquired a huge minority position (in a stock swap) if the Ford family wouldn't go for a full acquisition. They should have done that years ago. They were too self-absorbed to see the obvious opportunity. The electrified trucks would be enormous profit centers. Now, instead, Tesla will almost entirely miss out on the zillion dollar electric truck market, which they could have had a big slice of. Tesla's only shot is to abandon Cybertruck and build a normal looking truck, which they won't do for several years until the pain from the embarrassment overwhelms Musk's ego problems (otherwise they'll just leave Cybertruck as a low volume trinket in their lineup, or abandon the space entirely).

rasz 5y ago

>vehicle launch Product launch is when something is released and you can buy it, not when someone published plans and best wishes.

nickik 5y ago

Äh I have to disagree. This is far, far, far less of a game changer compared to the Cybertruck. It basically worse and more expensive at everything and its very unlikely Ford can build close to as many as the Cybertruck. Simply because of batteries alone and other production capacity as well (a lot is shared with the other F150s). Its really slow charging considering the time it will come out. If you want to use this to transport anything its range is worse compared to the Cybertruck and its gone charge much slower. This will likely sell well and they will likely sell as many as they can make. But that doesn't make it a game changer. This will sell well but

nikau 5y ago
Yes I'm sure ford will struggle as they only make 4+ million plus vehicles a year, nowhere near teslas bumper crop of 180k a quarter...
- nickik 5y ago
  Oh this old bad argument warmed up again. Remember when 5 years ago people claimed that as soon car companies make electric cars they would outsell Tesla? Well the fact is that Tesla sells more EV by far then even VW by a large amount. Scaling BEV production is hard, and just because for produces lots of ICE cars does not mean they can magically produce lots of EVs. Do yourself a favor and actually learn about BEV production and supply chain issues.
  - nikau 5y ago
    > Remember when 5 years ago people claimed that as soon car companies make electric cars they would outsell Tesla? Remember 5 years ago when Telsa fans claimed BEV range and acceleration wasn't possible for legacy automakers? Ford sell more F series vehicles per year than all tesla models combined - why are you assuming they need to pivot asap to EV only?
    - nickik 5y ago
      > Remember 5 years ago when Telsa fans claimed BEV range and acceleration wasn't possible for legacy automakers? No, I don't. Its the opposite, most people were saying that legacy makers could do it eventually but they need to make massive investments in EV production, and guess what, they did. Tesla fan were actually right, it took way longer then people said for real mass market EV to come out. But of course Tesla got the lead and they are not just outselling everybody else and are still among the leaders in performance and efficiency. > Ford sell more F series vehicles per year than all tesla models combined - why are you assuming they need to pivot asap to EV only? They don't but in a few years EV version will outperform the alternative ICE version along pretty much every dimension and there will be huge demand for EV trucks. The question is if you at that point have the capacity to produce them in accordance with demand.

ngcc_hk 5y ago

game changer It is as it is not a truck but a Mobile power source.