13 ms·

Last year, more people in San Francisco died of overdoses than of Covid-19

129 points by rblion 5y ago

reidjs 5y ago
Social distancing works then? Seriously, I don’t think anyone doubted that heart disease/car accidents/opioids are more life threatening than covid. It’s just the devil we don’t know.
- rblion 5y ago
  I think the bigger conversation is the rising number of displaced people in our society who turn to drugs and crime to cope with life. I grew up in Atlanta and it's getting out of control here too. I have a friend who models in LA, she is telling the same thing PLUS the rise of sex trafficking and Instagram escorts. I'm 31 and I'm asking the Big Questions again. Something needs to change or the mental health crisis will become a much bigger stressor on society as a whole.
mcosta 5y ago
Were the drugs administered through the air by being in the same room as the drugs?
- rblion 5y ago
  I've been to concerts where there are smoke clouds above the crowds.
  - EdwardDiego 5y ago
    Marijuana isn't known to produce lethal overdoses.
    - rblion 5y ago
      I was just joking. It does cause me to eat an outrageous amount of food that I didn't need to eat but ate anyways. :)
baby 5y ago
I live here and to anyone who doesn’t know san francisco this might help explain why I am not surprised (and probably anyone living here isn’t as well): - Everybody wears a mask here. Everyone. Even vaccinated people and children. It’s taken extremely seriously. And I’m not even talking about social distancing. Everything has been closed since the beginning of the virus and indoor dining is merely re-opening. - san francisco has the largest homeless population I’ve seen in the world (and I’ve traveled and lived in a bit everywhere in the world including many poor countries). On top of that, drug is hitting homeless people hard. It’s extremely common to see someone shooting themselves with a syringe here.
- blumomo 5y ago
  To say "Mask mandates are useful b/c we have more drug dead than covid dead" is not logically plausible. The fact that measure have been useful rather shows wishful thinking to me.
- jmcgough 5y ago
  Most people dying from drug overdoses aren't homeless.
  - shoto_io 5y ago
    Isn't it interesting how our perception of reality is shaped by what we observe daily?
    - inter_netuser 5y ago
      "In the world of phenomena, perception is everything." - some philosopher (cannot google who)
- StavrosK 5y ago
  I don't know about SF specifically, but according to [1], California is doing about average for the US and is at the world's top 30 (higher is worse) for deaths per million, so I'd guess it's more #2 than #1. Is SF doing significantly better than the rest of California, in general? Hopefully now enough people are vaccinated that the rates have dropped.
StavrosK 5y ago
Yes but that's a poor people problem, so who cares? I don't think it's possible for these things to be solved at any level lower than the federal, you can apply some band-aids but ultimately you need a stronger social safety net, which the US seems culturally averse to.
- baby 5y ago
  You are absolutely right. SF is just the symptom of a national homeless crisis in the US. As long as the US isn’t willing to help its people, more liberal cities like SF will lay the price.
  - dehrmann 5y ago
    > more liberal cities like SF will lay the price This is a tricky problem because housing people isn't free (there is an argument that it saves money on ER bills), housing homeless people in SF is an incredibly inefficient use of money, but at the same time, you don't want cities to be bastions of wealth that outsource their poverty. Action also has to be done at the regional level, or else you'll get a TL situation where homelessness is isolated to one area. Even regional alignment isn't enough, though; the fact that the Bay Area has relatively good homeless services attracts more homeless. Federal housing projects aren't a good answer, either, and least not in the US, because of their history.
    - 1_person 5y ago
      It's not even remotely a tricky problem. It's just a trick, of convincing ourselves it's not our problem when we are the cause.
    - yosamino 5y ago
      > Federal housing projects aren't a good answer, either, and least not in the US, because of their history. genuinely curious: what is this history that makes it difficult in the US ?
      - 5y ago
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
dehrmann 5y ago
For an article that doesn't focus on SF, that's an odd headline, and not a big surprise for anyone who's seen the Civic Center Bart station: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gT5NULvRSk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gT5NULvRSk SF is an oddity because of its homeless problem, open-air drug market, not being too concerned with either, but being incredibly concerned over covid, so this outcome isn't surprising.
mathieubordere 5y ago
Are prescription opioids still being widely prescribed as a painkiller these days in the US?
- WesleyHale 5y ago
  Anecdotal, but ~a week after my surgery 3 years ago I told my doctor I quit taking my pain meds 2 days post-op as I wasn't in pain anymore and don't like pills. I was initially given a 14 day supply. Upon hearing this he asked me if I needed more or would like a stronger variant. This was at a higher tier facility that works on professional athletes in the NFL and MLB.
  - the_only_law 5y ago
    I got out of surgery last year after a deep cut following a fall. It was indeed painful as hell for some weeks afterwards, but I didn’t particularly ask for anything. I honestly just wanted to get out of the hospital and was annoyed they kept me overnight. But I walked out with a prescription for... guess what.
- WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
  Depends on the state. Many (if not most) have declared some sort of war on pain relief. In the worst, effective pain meds are all but impossible to get. My adult son was recently cycling and sent flying by a jeep. He's in tons of pain but none of the injuries are serious. The ER isn't willing to Rx anything stronger than ibuprofen. I recent had abdominal surgery. I had to beg just to get Tramadol. I've a friend with crippling arthritis, who'd responsibly taken opioids for years and was cut off after the state passed draconian anti-opioid laws. This is forcing him to consider actually risky drugs just so he can function at minimal levels. At some point we need to give a crap about the millions who've lost their quality of life due to anti-opioid hysteria. We are WAY past time to stop conflating typical Rx pain meds with blackmarket fentanyl. The bulk of the pill mill problem was tackled a decade ago. News reporting on opioid overdoses that infers Rxs are the major current driver is patently false.
wodenokoto 5y ago
Overdoses aren’t contagious. We are not really afraid of the current levels of COVID, we are afraid of the potential spread of COVID that can happen so rapidly that hospitals and other critical infrastructure will have to close because everybody is sick. It’s not even the mortality rate of COVID that has caused a global lockdown.
- TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
  Political and social conditions that contribute to overdoses and other forms of suicide are contagious - socially and politically. But they require political and social solutions, and vaccines can't provide those.
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
  >Overdoses aren’t contagious. But they do tend to cluster. Many people overdose because their supply is unusually strong, or they're clean and use what they would've taken at their previous tolerance. Knowing this we can expect more overdoses to happen in black markets, and the recently released (from rehab, prison, hospital, etc).
krankthat 5y ago
Is this evidence of the effectiveness of following CDC guidelines, or evidence that opiates are still a bigger problem?
SergeAx 5y ago
> more people in San Francisco died of overdoses than of covid-19 Maybe this is because anti-covid measures were more efficient than anti-overdosing ones? Regarding the obvious question "Should San-Francisco pay more attention to overdosing" - I don't know, looks like much more people are at risk of dying because of covid than because of overdosing.

129 points by rblion 5y ago

Social distancing works then? Seriously, I don’t think anyone doubted that heart disease/car accidents/opioids are more life threatening than covid. It’s just the devil we don’t know.

rblion 5y ago
I think the bigger conversation is the rising number of displaced people in our society who turn to drugs and crime to cope with life. I grew up in Atlanta and it's getting out of control here too. I have a friend who models in LA, she is telling the same thing PLUS the rise of sex trafficking and Instagram escorts. I'm 31 and I'm asking the Big Questions again. Something needs to change or the mental health crisis will become a much bigger stressor on society as a whole.

mcosta 5y ago

Were the drugs administered through the air by being in the same room as the drugs?

rblion 5y ago
I've been to concerts where there are smoke clouds above the crowds.
- EdwardDiego 5y ago
  Marijuana isn't known to produce lethal overdoses.
  - rblion 5y ago
    I was just joking. It does cause me to eat an outrageous amount of food that I didn't need to eat but ate anyways. :)

baby 5y ago

I live here and to anyone who doesn’t know san francisco this might help explain why I am not surprised (and probably anyone living here isn’t as well): - Everybody wears a mask here. Everyone. Even vaccinated people and children. It’s taken extremely seriously. And I’m not even talking about social distancing. Everything has been closed since the beginning of the virus and indoor dining is merely re-opening. - san francisco has the largest homeless population I’ve seen in the world (and I’ve traveled and lived in a bit everywhere in the world including many poor countries). On top of that, drug is hitting homeless people hard. It’s extremely common to see someone shooting themselves with a syringe here.

blumomo 5y ago
To say "Mask mandates are useful b/c we have more drug dead than covid dead" is not logically plausible. The fact that measure have been useful rather shows wishful thinking to me.
jmcgough 5y ago
Most people dying from drug overdoses aren't homeless.
- shoto_io 5y ago
  Isn't it interesting how our perception of reality is shaped by what we observe daily?
  - inter_netuser 5y ago
    "In the world of phenomena, perception is everything." - some philosopher (cannot google who)
StavrosK 5y ago
I don't know about SF specifically, but according to [1], California is doing about average for the US and is at the world's top 30 (higher is worse) for deaths per million, so I'd guess it's more #2 than #1. Is SF doing significantly better than the rest of California, in general? Hopefully now enough people are vaccinated that the rates have dropped.

StavrosK 5y ago

Yes but that's a poor people problem, so who cares? I don't think it's possible for these things to be solved at any level lower than the federal, you can apply some band-aids but ultimately you need a stronger social safety net, which the US seems culturally averse to.

baby 5y ago
You are absolutely right. SF is just the symptom of a national homeless crisis in the US. As long as the US isn’t willing to help its people, more liberal cities like SF will lay the price.
- dehrmann 5y ago
  > more liberal cities like SF will lay the price This is a tricky problem because housing people isn't free (there is an argument that it saves money on ER bills), housing homeless people in SF is an incredibly inefficient use of money, but at the same time, you don't want cities to be bastions of wealth that outsource their poverty. Action also has to be done at the regional level, or else you'll get a TL situation where homelessness is isolated to one area. Even regional alignment isn't enough, though; the fact that the Bay Area has relatively good homeless services attracts more homeless. Federal housing projects aren't a good answer, either, and least not in the US, because of their history.
  - 1_person 5y ago
    It's not even remotely a tricky problem. It's just a trick, of convincing ourselves it's not our problem when we are the cause.
  - yosamino 5y ago
    > Federal housing projects aren't a good answer, either, and least not in the US, because of their history. genuinely curious: what is this history that makes it difficult in the US ?
    - 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

dehrmann 5y ago

For an article that doesn't focus on SF, that's an odd headline, and not a big surprise for anyone who's seen the Civic Center Bart station: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gT5NULvRSk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gT5NULvRSk SF is an oddity because of its homeless problem, open-air drug market, not being too concerned with either, but being incredibly concerned over covid, so this outcome isn't surprising.

mathieubordere 5y ago

Are prescription opioids still being widely prescribed as a painkiller these days in the US?

WesleyHale 5y ago
Anecdotal, but ~a week after my surgery 3 years ago I told my doctor I quit taking my pain meds 2 days post-op as I wasn't in pain anymore and don't like pills. I was initially given a 14 day supply. Upon hearing this he asked me if I needed more or would like a stronger variant. This was at a higher tier facility that works on professional athletes in the NFL and MLB.
- the_only_law 5y ago
  I got out of surgery last year after a deep cut following a fall. It was indeed painful as hell for some weeks afterwards, but I didn’t particularly ask for anything. I honestly just wanted to get out of the hospital and was annoyed they kept me overnight. But I walked out with a prescription for... guess what.
WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
Depends on the state. Many (if not most) have declared some sort of war on pain relief. In the worst, effective pain meds are all but impossible to get. My adult son was recently cycling and sent flying by a jeep. He's in tons of pain but none of the injuries are serious. The ER isn't willing to Rx anything stronger than ibuprofen. I recent had abdominal surgery. I had to beg just to get Tramadol. I've a friend with crippling arthritis, who'd responsibly taken opioids for years and was cut off after the state passed draconian anti-opioid laws. This is forcing him to consider actually risky drugs just so he can function at minimal levels. At some point we need to give a crap about the millions who've lost their quality of life due to anti-opioid hysteria. We are WAY past time to stop conflating typical Rx pain meds with blackmarket fentanyl. The bulk of the pill mill problem was tackled a decade ago. News reporting on opioid overdoses that infers Rxs are the major current driver is patently false.

wodenokoto 5y ago

Overdoses aren’t contagious. We are not really afraid of the current levels of COVID, we are afraid of the potential spread of COVID that can happen so rapidly that hospitals and other critical infrastructure will have to close because everybody is sick. It’s not even the mortality rate of COVID that has caused a global lockdown.

TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
Political and social conditions that contribute to overdoses and other forms of suicide are contagious - socially and politically. But they require political and social solutions, and vaccines can't provide those.
Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
>Overdoses aren’t contagious. But they do tend to cluster. Many people overdose because their supply is unusually strong, or they're clean and use what they would've taken at their previous tolerance. Knowing this we can expect more overdoses to happen in black markets, and the recently released (from rehab, prison, hospital, etc).

krankthat 5y ago

Is this evidence of the effectiveness of following CDC guidelines, or evidence that opiates are still a bigger problem?

SergeAx 5y ago

> more people in San Francisco died of overdoses than of covid-19 Maybe this is because anti-covid measures were more efficient than anti-overdosing ones? Regarding the obvious question "Should San-Francisco pay more attention to overdosing" - I don't know, looks like much more people are at risk of dying because of covid than because of overdosing.