7 ms·

First nuclear detonation created ‘impossible’ quasicrystals

103 points by sova 5y ago

ortusdux 5y ago
The DOI link doesn't work for me. This seems to be the article - https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2101350118 https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2101350118
mensetmanusman 5y ago
This is amazing, I remember when the Nobel prize was received for the discovery of quasicrystals while I was getting my PhD in materials science. The amazing thing about these materials to me is that they are found in apace rocks that land on earth. That means they are extremely stable for long distance interstellar travel. This discovery means that humans may actually have a way to manufacture these in the future, it would just require ridiculous energy densities. Maybe this would be manufacturing to do on Mars?
- systemvoltage 5y ago
  You wanna blow up nuclear bombs on Mars to make some quasicrystal trinkets? I don't think this is a good idea. Why not just do it on Earth? It's simpler that way. No need to go to Mars, for one.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - loonster 5y ago
    Maybe make them on the Moon. We can then safely observe the manufacturing process.
    - lumost 5y ago
      or solar orbit, where the fallout will be efficiently dispersed throughout the solar system and beyond.
      - redisman 5y ago
        You gotta add a little bit of entropy to the solar system every now and then to keep things interesting
    - Kelamir 5y ago
      Related by Kurzgesagt "What if we blow up the moon?" : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEfPBt9dU60 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEfPBt9dU60
- andrewflnr 5y ago
  They already can be manufactured. That's how they were first discovered.
  - s0rce 5y ago
    My recollection of the paper on the natural examples was that it was quite a long and exhaustive search through mineral specimens with likely candidate compositions before they found the natural one.
  - klyrs 5y ago
    In the same way that ancient humans made timekeeping devices with a bowl with a hole in the bottom... one might hope for a superior method
    - andrewflnr 5y ago
      Indeed one might, but one should not look first to freaking nukes.
  - HarryHirsch 5y ago
    You can buy them in the form of Cybernox nonstick pans. Unfortunately the things are somewhat susceptible to chloride corrosion - not the best thing for cookware!
    - vagrantJin 5y ago
      I recall seeing an ad, when I was a kid, that bald dude selling non-stick pans by blowing an omelete. I thought it was silly. Is cleaning a pan really that much work?
      - bryanrasmussen 5y ago
        if you could buy one of two cheap pans, where the only obvious difference was that one took no effort to clean and the other took some effort, which would you take? Probably there are other differences, but I said only obvious differences thus leaving out any difference you would have to spend some hours to figure out what they were before buying your cheap pan.
- mattashii 5y ago
  > The amazing thing about these materials to me is that they are found in apace rocks that land on earth. > That means they are extremely stable for long distance interstellar travel. No, that means that they are either stable for long distance interstellar travel, or they are created in the high-temperature high-pressure environment that is created when the rock is aerocaptured by and impacted into the planet. I think it is no suprise that similar materials are found around nuclear detonation sites and extraterrestrial impact craters: the energy release is on a similar large scale and similarly instantanious.
pseudolus 5y ago
The Youtube channel "Veritasium" featured a great video on Penrose tilings and their relationship to quasicrystals [0]. A fascinating example of a mathematical discovery with a previously unsuspected physical incarnation. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48sCx-wBs34 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48sCx-wBs34
peter_d_sherman 5y ago
>"Impossible symmetries Quasicrystals contain building blocks of atoms that — unlike those in ordinary crystals — do not repeat in a regular, brickwork-like pattern. Whereas ordinary crystal structures look identical after being translated in certain directions, quasicrystals have symmetries that were once considered impossible: for example, some have pentagonal symmetry, and so look the same if rotated by one-fifth of a full twist. Materials scientist Daniel Shechtman, now at the Technion Israel Institute of Technology in Haifa, first discovered such an impossible symmetry in a synthetic alloy in 1982. It had pentagonal symmetry when rotated in each of various possible directions, something that would occur if its building blocks were icosahedral — that is, had a regular shape with 20 faces. Many researchers initially questioned Shechtman’s findings, because it is mathematically impossible to fill space using only icosahedrons. Shechtman ultimately won the 2011 Nobel Prize in Chemistry for the discovery. [...] Quasicrystals might also form in other materials that were generated in violent conditions, such as fulgurite, the material made when lightning strikes rock, sand or other sediments." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulgurite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulgurite >"Fulgurites (from the Latin fulgur, meaning "lightning") are natural tubes, clumps, or masses of sintered, vitrified, and/or fused soil, sand, rock, organic debris and other sediments that sometimes form when lightning discharges into ground. Fulgurites are classified as a variety of the mineraloid lechatelierite. When ordinary negative polarity cloud-ground lightning discharges into a grounding substrate, greater than 100 million volts (100 MV) of potential difference may be bridged.[2] Such current may propagate into silica-rich quartzose sand, mixed soil, clay, or other sediments, rapidly vaporizing and melting resistant materials within such a common dissipation regime.[3] This results in the formation of generally hollow and/or vesicular, branching assemblages of glassy tubes, crusts, and clumped masses.[4] Fulgurites have no fixed composition because their chemical composition is determined by the physical and chemical properties of whatever material is being struck by lightning. Fulgurites are structurally similar to Lichtenberg figures , which are the branching patterns produced on surfaces of insulators during dielectric breakdown by high-voltage discharges, such as lightning.[5][6]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lichtenberg_figure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lichtenberg_figure >"A Lichtenberg figure (German Lichtenberg-Figuren), or Lichtenberg dust figure, is a branching electric discharge that sometimes appears on the surface or in the interior of insulating materials. Lichtenberg figures are often associated with the progressive deterioration of high voltage components and equipment. The study of planar Lichtenberg figures along insulating surfaces and 3D electrical trees within insulating materials often provides engineers with valuable insights for improving the long-term reliability of high-voltage equipment. Lichtenberg figures are now known to occur on or within solids, liquids, and gases during electrical breakdown. Lichtenberg figures are natural phenomena which exhibit fractal properties. The emergence of tree-like structures in nature is summarized by constructal law." PDS: My own curiousity, with respect to Fulgerites, is: I wonder if they possess any significant electric and/or magnetic and/or radio frequency spectrum -- field(s)...? Or any other interesting/unusual properties... Perhaps they'd make interesting transducers for some type of electromagnetic spectrum field, and/or antennas... or maybe just a diode or resistor for electricity... or some other type of field...
musgravepeter 5y ago
Steinhardt's book "The second kind of impossible" describes his involvement with quasi-crystals. It's very worthwhile.
littlecranky67 5y ago
Very off-topic, but I recently learned that one of the first nuclear detonations possibly (its unknown and disputed) sent the first man-made object into space (a large manhole like cover to seal the bombsite). Nice YT video about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSeL5c65v-g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSeL5c65v-g
- anoncake 5y ago
  A V2 rocket reached space in 1944, before the first nuclear test.
  - flohofwoe 5y ago
    Of course nobody really knew or agreed where "space" started back then, so... "This particular altitude was not considered significant at the time" ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MW_18014 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MW_18014

103 points by sova 5y ago

The DOI link doesn't work for me. This seems to be the article - https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2101350118 https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2101350118

mensetmanusman 5y ago

This is amazing, I remember when the Nobel prize was received for the discovery of quasicrystals while I was getting my PhD in materials science. The amazing thing about these materials to me is that they are found in apace rocks that land on earth. That means they are extremely stable for long distance interstellar travel. This discovery means that humans may actually have a way to manufacture these in the future, it would just require ridiculous energy densities. Maybe this would be manufacturing to do on Mars?

systemvoltage 5y ago
You wanna blow up nuclear bombs on Mars to make some quasicrystal trinkets? I don't think this is a good idea. Why not just do it on Earth? It's simpler that way. No need to go to Mars, for one.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- loonster 5y ago
  Maybe make them on the Moon. We can then safely observe the manufacturing process.
  - lumost 5y ago
    or solar orbit, where the fallout will be efficiently dispersed throughout the solar system and beyond.
    - redisman 5y ago
      You gotta add a little bit of entropy to the solar system every now and then to keep things interesting
  - Kelamir 5y ago
    Related by Kurzgesagt "What if we blow up the moon?" : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEfPBt9dU60 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEfPBt9dU60
andrewflnr 5y ago
They already can be manufactured. That's how they were first discovered.
- s0rce 5y ago
  My recollection of the paper on the natural examples was that it was quite a long and exhaustive search through mineral specimens with likely candidate compositions before they found the natural one.
- klyrs 5y ago
  In the same way that ancient humans made timekeeping devices with a bowl with a hole in the bottom... one might hope for a superior method
  - andrewflnr 5y ago
    Indeed one might, but one should not look first to freaking nukes.
- HarryHirsch 5y ago
  You can buy them in the form of Cybernox nonstick pans. Unfortunately the things are somewhat susceptible to chloride corrosion - not the best thing for cookware!
  - vagrantJin 5y ago
    I recall seeing an ad, when I was a kid, that bald dude selling non-stick pans by blowing an omelete. I thought it was silly. Is cleaning a pan really that much work?
    - bryanrasmussen 5y ago
      if you could buy one of two cheap pans, where the only obvious difference was that one took no effort to clean and the other took some effort, which would you take? Probably there are other differences, but I said only obvious differences thus leaving out any difference you would have to spend some hours to figure out what they were before buying your cheap pan.
mattashii 5y ago
> The amazing thing about these materials to me is that they are found in apace rocks that land on earth. > That means they are extremely stable for long distance interstellar travel. No, that means that they are either stable for long distance interstellar travel, or they are created in the high-temperature high-pressure environment that is created when the rock is aerocaptured by and impacted into the planet. I think it is no suprise that similar materials are found around nuclear detonation sites and extraterrestrial impact craters: the energy release is on a similar large scale and similarly instantanious.

pseudolus 5y ago

The Youtube channel "Veritasium" featured a great video on Penrose tilings and their relationship to quasicrystals [0]. A fascinating example of a mathematical discovery with a previously unsuspected physical incarnation. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48sCx-wBs34 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48sCx-wBs34

peter_d_sherman 5y ago

>"Impossible symmetries Quasicrystals contain building blocks of atoms that — unlike those in ordinary crystals — do not repeat in a regular, brickwork-like pattern. Whereas ordinary crystal structures look identical after being translated in certain directions, quasicrystals have symmetries that were once considered impossible: for example, some have pentagonal symmetry, and so look the same if rotated by one-fifth of a full twist. Materials scientist Daniel Shechtman, now at the Technion Israel Institute of Technology in Haifa, first discovered such an impossible symmetry in a synthetic alloy in 1982. It had pentagonal symmetry when rotated in each of various possible directions, something that would occur if its building blocks were icosahedral — that is, had a regular shape with 20 faces. Many researchers initially questioned Shechtman’s findings, because it is mathematically impossible to fill space using only icosahedrons. Shechtman ultimately won the 2011 Nobel Prize in Chemistry for the discovery. [...] Quasicrystals might also form in other materials that were generated in violent conditions, such as fulgurite, the material made when lightning strikes rock, sand or other sediments." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulgurite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulgurite >"Fulgurites (from the Latin fulgur, meaning "lightning") are natural tubes, clumps, or masses of sintered, vitrified, and/or fused soil, sand, rock, organic debris and other sediments that sometimes form when lightning discharges into ground. Fulgurites are classified as a variety of the mineraloid lechatelierite. When ordinary negative polarity cloud-ground lightning discharges into a grounding substrate, greater than 100 million volts (100 MV) of potential difference may be bridged.[2] Such current may propagate into silica-rich quartzose sand, mixed soil, clay, or other sediments, rapidly vaporizing and melting resistant materials within such a common dissipation regime.[3] This results in the formation of generally hollow and/or vesicular, branching assemblages of glassy tubes, crusts, and clumped masses.[4] Fulgurites have no fixed composition because their chemical composition is determined by the physical and chemical properties of whatever material is being struck by lightning. Fulgurites are structurally similar to Lichtenberg figures , which are the branching patterns produced on surfaces of insulators during dielectric breakdown by high-voltage discharges, such as lightning.[5][6]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lichtenberg_figure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lichtenberg_figure >"A Lichtenberg figure (German Lichtenberg-Figuren), or Lichtenberg dust figure, is a branching electric discharge that sometimes appears on the surface or in the interior of insulating materials. Lichtenberg figures are often associated with the progressive deterioration of high voltage components and equipment. The study of planar Lichtenberg figures along insulating surfaces and 3D electrical trees within insulating materials often provides engineers with valuable insights for improving the long-term reliability of high-voltage equipment. Lichtenberg figures are now known to occur on or within solids, liquids, and gases during electrical breakdown. Lichtenberg figures are natural phenomena which exhibit fractal properties. The emergence of tree-like structures in nature is summarized by constructal law." PDS: My own curiousity, with respect to Fulgerites, is: I wonder if they possess any significant electric and/or magnetic and/or radio frequency spectrum -- field(s)...? Or any other interesting/unusual properties... Perhaps they'd make interesting transducers for some type of electromagnetic spectrum field, and/or antennas... or maybe just a diode or resistor for electricity... or some other type of field...

musgravepeter 5y ago

Steinhardt's book "The second kind of impossible" describes his involvement with quasi-crystals. It's very worthwhile.

littlecranky67 5y ago

Very off-topic, but I recently learned that one of the first nuclear detonations possibly (its unknown and disputed) sent the first man-made object into space (a large manhole like cover to seal the bombsite). Nice YT video about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSeL5c65v-g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSeL5c65v-g

anoncake 5y ago
A V2 rocket reached space in 1944, before the first nuclear test.
- flohofwoe 5y ago
  Of course nobody really knew or agreed where "space" started back then, so... "This particular altitude was not considered significant at the time" ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MW_18014 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MW_18014