3 ms·
Modern fabs are nearly completely lights out. There are more people sitting in offices there than on the floor. I fact there is a huge oversupply of semicondu
by baybal2 5y ago
Modern fabs are nearly completely lights out.
There are more people sitting in offices there than on the floor.
I fact there is a huge oversupply of semiconductor engineers globally because of fabs becoming less, and less labour intensive.
Companies take a big effort to reduce the number of people on the floor futher, but now not so much for labour cost readon, but security. The chance of somebody who shouldn't really be on the floor acidentally pressing the wrong button, and sending $10M worth of wafers down the drain is the risk they don't want to take.
- ithkuil 5y agoTwo related questions: 1. Would it thus cost the same to operate such a fab in the US? 2. Why did the US outsourced the semiconductor fabrication in the first place? Was it more labour intensive in the past?
- baybal2 5y ago1. Labour-wise probably 3-4 times the Taiwan, but labour cost of fabs is microscopic in comparison to everything else. Taiwan does not have dramatically lower taxes than US, but there is something particular to how working capital is accounted which will make for a double digit difference in the in TW vs. US. Third is supplies. Even before the semi moving to Asia, US fabs had to import a big portion of their supplies. 2. > Why did the US outsourced the semiconductor fabrication in the first place Why did US outsource almost everything, even when it makes no sense? It simply tough, tedious, problematic doing business in the US. I wrote about it many times before here. You mind your own business, very much literally. Few month down the line some trouble comes: lawsuit, taxmen, utilities, creditors, SEC, city hall, suppliers, random activists, labour union... pick any.
- imtringued 5y ago>1. Labour-wise probably 3-4 times the Taiwan, but labour cost of fabs is microscopic in comparison to everything else. Building a fab requires labor, a lot of it.
- baybal2 5y agoThere are only 2-3 construction companies globally who build factories as complex as modern semi fabs. Imagine, where they get their workers? They import them all from their home countries.
- ithkuil 5y agoWhat are their home countries? Sorry I could do my own research, but since you made a comment that implied you had a piece of information at hand, I feel I may just get it easier this way.
- baybal2 5y agoExyte (Germany) was a big one. I myself haven't been up to date with news in the industry for around 10 years since I abandoned all attempts to enter the industry.
- inglor_cz 5y agoAs for 2), it is less about outsourcing and more about gradual loss of competitiveness. The scientific and technological development between 2000 and 2020 led to a lot of corporations, not just in the U.S., falling out of the race because they could not keep up the pace. Nowadays, only Samsung and TSMC are left, with Intel lagging behind, but still not completely out. Similar consolidations have happened in the past and in other industrial fields. This time, two of the three surviving champions are simply not American.
- lumost 5y agoThis is an interesting take, I'd be curious how it applies to other industries. Is outsourcing an artifact of loss of technical/execution competence required to be competitive?
- throwaway_45 5y agoIn general its a dirty process. There are a lot of toxic chemicals involved. People might get sick. Margins aren't as good as software and its very capital intensive so investors would rather invest in software. Lots of booms and bust in the semiconductor industry.