8 ms·

The 'universal' aspect of UBI is critical, and many of the attempts to test UBI seem to miss this completely. Call it something else in that case.

by akyu 5y ago

smaryjerry 5y ago
Like the Oakland program which specifically excludes whites. Or basically every other program that only includes extremely low income people. I suppose it gets the results they want though, which is to show it helps the lives of the people, however as we have seen with this last year of unemployment checks, people just won’t go back to work if they can make almost as much for doing nothing. At our business getting people to return when unemployment was an extra $600 a week on top of about 60% of their wages was absolutely impossible. Bow that it’s still $300 it’s a struggle to get people back.
- falcor84 5y ago
  Well, the whole thing about UBI, as opposed to unemployment payments, is that you'd continue getting it regardless of other sources of income, right? So you should always have some incentive to work, if the conditions are reasonable and they make it worth your time.
- pietrovismara 5y ago
  Have you ever thought that the problem could be with your wages, rather than with the UBI?
  - smaryjerry 5y ago
    Wages are a market. If everyone wants to be something then the wages will be low. The way around it was to hire many more people but for only 15 hours per week so they can all continue collect unemployment (with an extra $300 per week from the federal government).
    - pietrovismara 5y ago
      Well if nobody wants to work for you it means you are way off with the wages you offer. That's the market. You got to raise the wages, not complain that people are finally able to reject your wage slavery.
- ssharp 5y ago
  UBI isn't unemployment. You could collect UBI and still work.
  - smaryjerry 5y ago
    You could but no one would because they make more money not working. It equates to basically paying the company to work.
    - qwytw 5y ago
      You'd get both the UBI + wage/salary, I'm not quite sure how that translates to "basically paying the company to work".
      - jokethrowaway 5y ago
        If I get enough money with ubi I won't waste my life working on something I don't care about. The amount of people who would continue their job if it wasn't for the money it's slim I definitely wouldn't waste my time building someone else product and creating value for society. I'd likely build something fun I want to build which is unlikely to be useful for society or make money. A large part of the populatin on would happily paint, cook, read books, watch movies, play videogames until they die - if they had the money.
        danShumway 5y ago
        You'll still get paid for your normal job. It's not like that money would be thrown away, you're not working for free. You go to your job and work because you want more money. I think UBI is largely untested and its proponents should proceed with caution. But I also think people are overconfident in assuming that people wouldn't work; the reality is that we don't have a ton of data in either direction. If the 20th-21st century has taught us anything, it's that consumerism is a very powerful motivator. People like to have money to buy luxuries, most people don't want to sit on subsistence levels of income their entire lives. People want things. They want to buy videogames, and XBoxes, and nice houses, and cars, and iPhones, and to go to fancy restaurants. Whether consumerism is a powerful enough motivator... I just think people are very over-confident talking about what is definitely going to happen in a system that has basically never been tried before.
benhurmarcel 5y ago
The funding aspect is also critical, yet none of the tests include it. Of course the results of handing out money are positive, now what happens when participants have to pay for it through additional taxes?

The 'universal' aspect of UBI is critical, and many of the attempts to test UBI seem to miss this completely. Call it something else in that case.

by akyu 5y ago

The 'universal' aspect of UBI is critical, and many of the attempts to test UBI seem to miss this completely. Call it something else in that case.

smaryjerry 5y ago

Like the Oakland program which specifically excludes whites. Or basically every other program that only includes extremely low income people. I suppose it gets the results they want though, which is to show it helps the lives of the people, however as we have seen with this last year of unemployment checks, people just won’t go back to work if they can make almost as much for doing nothing. At our business getting people to return when unemployment was an extra $600 a week on top of about 60% of their wages was absolutely impossible. Bow that it’s still $300 it’s a struggle to get people back.

falcor84 5y ago
Well, the whole thing about UBI, as opposed to unemployment payments, is that you'd continue getting it regardless of other sources of income, right? So you should always have some incentive to work, if the conditions are reasonable and they make it worth your time.
pietrovismara 5y ago
Have you ever thought that the problem could be with your wages, rather than with the UBI?
- smaryjerry 5y ago
  Wages are a market. If everyone wants to be something then the wages will be low. The way around it was to hire many more people but for only 15 hours per week so they can all continue collect unemployment (with an extra $300 per week from the federal government).
  - pietrovismara 5y ago
    Well if nobody wants to work for you it means you are way off with the wages you offer. That's the market. You got to raise the wages, not complain that people are finally able to reject your wage slavery.
ssharp 5y ago
UBI isn't unemployment. You could collect UBI and still work.
- smaryjerry 5y ago
  You could but no one would because they make more money not working. It equates to basically paying the company to work.
  - qwytw 5y ago
    You'd get both the UBI + wage/salary, I'm not quite sure how that translates to "basically paying the company to work".
    - jokethrowaway 5y ago
      If I get enough money with ubi I won't waste my life working on something I don't care about. The amount of people who would continue their job if it wasn't for the money it's slim I definitely wouldn't waste my time building someone else product and creating value for society. I'd likely build something fun I want to build which is unlikely to be useful for society or make money. A large part of the populatin on would happily paint, cook, read books, watch movies, play videogames until they die - if they had the money.
      - danShumway 5y ago
        You'll still get paid for your normal job. It's not like that money would be thrown away, you're not working for free. You go to your job and work because you want more money. I think UBI is largely untested and its proponents should proceed with caution. But I also think people are overconfident in assuming that people wouldn't work; the reality is that we don't have a ton of data in either direction. If the 20th-21st century has taught us anything, it's that consumerism is a very powerful motivator. People like to have money to buy luxuries, most people don't want to sit on subsistence levels of income their entire lives. People want things. They want to buy videogames, and XBoxes, and nice houses, and cars, and iPhones, and to go to fancy restaurants. Whether consumerism is a powerful enough motivator... I just think people are very over-confident talking about what is definitely going to happen in a system that has basically never been tried before.

benhurmarcel 5y ago

The funding aspect is also critical, yet none of the tests include it. Of course the results of handing out money are positive, now what happens when participants have to pay for it through additional taxes?