4 ms·
Rectal Breathing with Perfluorocarbons
- harveywi 5y agoBach's "Air on the G String" will never sound the same.
- leephillips 5y agoThis is a strong example of a title that simultaneously make me want to click on it but made me afraid to do so. In the end I chickened out.
- hisnameisjimmy 5y agoWorth the click, pretty wild technology.
- greatgoat420 5y agoIt isn't that scary. >Intra-rectal delivery of a liquid form of O2 known as conjugated perfluorocarbon, a compound historically used in clinics for liquid ventilation through airway administration, is highly tolerable and efficacious in ameliorating severe respiratory failure. Thus, by repurposing the distal gut as an accessary breathing organ, enteral ventilation therapy offers an alternative paradigm as an adjunctive means to patients who are in critical need of respiratory support.
- semi-extrinsic 5y agoNitpick (on TFA): perfluorocarbons are not "a liquid form of O2". The thing about these liquids is that they can dissolve a huge amount of both O2 and CO2, compared to normal liquids. It's kinda crucial that they can carry lots of CO2 out of the body as well. Calling PFCs "a liquid form of O2" is like saying carbonated water is "a liquid form of CO2".
- kazinator 5y agoCould this also be regarded as a dietary supplement with negative calories?
- kleiba 5y agoHere's a video that demonstrates the underlying scientific principle, focusing on expiration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFLw8aH-M2w&t=0m4s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFLw8aH-M2w&t=0m4s
- thunkshift1 5y agoWell, I fell for that
- kleiba 5y agoI got downvoted to 0 points, but I feel that it was worth it.
- Metacelsus 5y agoIt's a crazy idea, but this might actually be pretty useful for people whose lungs are damaged.
- ceejayoz 5y agoOr trauma patients you can't get quickly intubated; could have utility in ambulances.
- harveywi 5y agoDeaths from assphyxiation will plummet.
- cultofmetatron 5y agoimagine if we had these at the beginning of the covid epidemic when ventilators were in short supply
- mikeappell 5y agoI wonder what it would take to get us to the point where we can oxygenate sufficiently without needing to use our lungs at all. Tons of applications there.
- intricatedetail 5y agoWhat would you replace the lungs with? The space could probably fit a battery and M1 Mac.
- nradov 5y agoThat already exists. Surgeons have been using cardiopulmonary bypass machines for years.
- pontifier 5y agoI think something along these lines might be possible in the far future. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bacteria https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bacteria Imagine using a battery and a small wire to directly enable respiration at the cellular level rather than using oxygen at all. I can see this greatly facilitating a host of activities on other planets or in space.
- 35fbe7d3d5b9 5y agoAs seen in The Abyss (1989), where a real rat was submerged in a similar liquid. Of course, its respiration was not rectal, but normal – or as normal as "breathing via liquid" can be. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFFpMqs9kbI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFFpMqs9kbI
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y agoOnly the rat though, not Ed Harris ....
- zabzonk 5y agoHippy: "He ain't digging it, man!"
- harveywi 5y agoHow do you know that the respiration in the movie wasn't rectal?
- ggambetta 5y agoReverse-farting. What a time to be alive.
- mdani 5y agoA very interesting video on PFCs and liquid breathing. https://youtu.be/TIGCdA2YLyY https://youtu.be/TIGCdA2YLyY
- ChuckMcM 5y agoThe joke here is "Man next year's scuba gear is going to be really interesting." That said, the paper using the liquid EVA (L-EVA) technique can keep rodents survivably oxygenated. (~ 95% oxygen levels if I am reading the graph in figure 2C correctly) so it is an interesting result to watch.
- dang 5y agoMammals can absorb oxygen through their intestines - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27156334 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27156334 - May 2021 (106 comments)
- Metacelsus 5y agoSorry I didn't see that, it appears to be a (quite good) commentary article on the paper I linked.
- WesolyKubeczek 5y agoReminded me of a childhood joke: Once there was a hedgehog who had learned to breathe with his butt. One day he sat down onto a tree stump and died of suffocation. But seriously, if my lungs had to go and I had an option, I would totally grab at any tech to breathe with my whatever else.
- aqme28 5y agoIt looks like this works for oxygenation, but does it work to remove carbon dioxide? I didn't see anything about that in the paper, but it's just as important unless it's super short-term.
- perilunar 5y agoFrom the paper's discussion section: "Interestingly, the arterial pressure of CO2 tended to be decreased in the l-EVA group, presumably due to the excellent O2 - and CO2-carrying capacity of perfluorochemicals (50 mL O2/dL and 160–210 mL CO2/dL, respectively), while the arterial pH did not change in our experiment. These results indicate that perfluorochemicals also act as an adsorbent for elevated CO2, indicating a need for future follow-up studies of gas exchange mechanisms."
- rozab 5y agoDavid Blaine claimed that when he was preparing for his underwater breath holding record attempt, he bought some of this stuff online thinking he might be able to just cheese it. So he filled his sink with it, stuck his face in and tried to breathe. He found it so difficult and unpleasant he decided to just break the record for real instead (he got 17 minutes and 4 seconds). https://youtu.be/XFnGhrC_3Gs?t=297 https://youtu.be/XFnGhrC_3Gs?t=297
- harveywi 5y agoIf he would have sat in his sink instead, he would have smashed the record.
- jfengel 5y agoThis is a fascinating discovery, but I do want to spare a moment's thought for the lab animals in the study. Asphyxiation is a deeply unpleasant way to die, which is what happened to all of the control group, all of the group without intestinal abrasion, and 25% of the mice who were given the full treatment. That latter is just one animal; the groups were very small. But that sounds especially horrible, getting almost enough oxygen to live. Every single animal underwent "agonal respiration", which is merely medical Latin for "gasping for breath", but nonetheless suggests that these mice were suffering substantially. I'm glad that the groups were small. I'm well aware that animal models are necessary for medicine, and that these deaths may well one day save many human lives; presumably the Institutional Review Board decided it was worth it on balance. I hope that future experiments can continue to be done with an eye to minimizing the suffering that goes into them.
- 4gotunameagain 5y agoHaha there was a control group? What did they expect?
- prideout 5y agoIt's good that you brought this up in a tactful way. I share your concerns about animal suffering, and your hope for the future. It sounds like you are willing to concede that the suffering in this particular case is potentially worthwhile, and I too am willing to make this concession. Millions of people have died, and we have to do what we have to do. I hope we can be smarter in the future.
- aasasd 5y agoEditorialized title.
- jmpman 5y agoButt chugging oxygen? What will the millennials think of next.
- redis_mlc 5y agoO2 As(s) a Service, of course.
- jerf 5y agoStrong contender for an Ignoble.
- asdfthrowawayyy 5y agoYeah and when Brazil attempted to advocate rectal O3 insuflation to increase O2 uptake for COVID-19 treatment, the entire planet made quack jokes about it. https://brazilian.report/liveblog/coronavirus/2020/08/05/health-minister-brazil-with-advocates-for-rectal-use-of-ozone-as-covid-19-treatment/ https://brazilian.report/liveblog/coronavirus/2020/08/05/hea...