5 ms·

> This stuff needs to be regulated, Regulated? Fraud is illegal. It needs to be PROSECUTED.

by techrat 5y ago

amelius 5y ago
Perhaps if we all start using all-caps, somebody in government will hear us. You are right, of course.
- WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
  > Perhaps if we all start using all-caps, somebody in government will hear us YES - THE NAVY
YetAnotherNick 5y ago
How will you prosecute them? Not only most scammers are nameless, but most are from countries where government needs to fix lot of things before they are effective against scammers.
- notyourday 5y ago
  That's easy. Those scams operate because the countries/players have access to the US financial system. You provide the incentives to the countries to fix their problem by cutting them completely off. If someone using a bank in Cyprus did it, you tell Cyprus government that in 48 hours the Fed will block all transactions with that bank and you block it. They move to another bank, you repeat it. Eventually Cyprus government ( and Cyprus banks ) have to make a choice - continue to tolerate scammers using their banks and be locked out totally out of the US financial system or crack down on the scammers.
  - YetAnotherNick 5y ago
    While we are at it, let's also throw 2-3 nukes to the country in case they dont fix it.
    - WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
      Well, it wouldn't be nukes but if someone who outed US Gov wrongdoing was there, I'm sure the US could force down their aircraft or whatever.
  - techrat 5y ago
    You're right. Dunno why you're getting downvoted. Follow the money and report the issue to the institutions along the line. If they refuse to shut down the scammers and to stop facilitating their crimes, shut the institutions down for being an accessory.
  - encryptluks2 5y ago
    Same with Robocallers... Also call them what they are. Call them terrorist and you block off the countries enabling these terrorist groups. Sanction them too
    - pavel_lishin 5y ago
      Hang on, how are robocallers terrorists?
      - encryptluks2 5y ago
        There are different types of terrorism. It falls under the cyberterrorism and critical infrastructure category.
        pavel_lishin 5y ago
        I still don't understand how robocallers are engaging in terrorism, or damaging critical infrastructure. Don't get me wrong; I'd love to see them picking up trash on the side of the highway for next twenty years of their life, or worse. But calling everything "terrorism" really reminds me of the years following 2001.
      - PaulHoule 5y ago
        Didn't Lenin say "The purpose of terrorism is to create terror?"
        encryptluks2 5y ago
        I don't know about you, but I'm scared anytime my phone rings that it is another robocaller.
  - barbazoo 5y ago
    Or, you know, punish the platform that allows for these scams to happen.
  - seoaeu 5y ago
    You don't even need to be this severe. The credit card system demonstrates how things can work: make the bank post collateral and pay a small transaction fee per transfer. Refund any fraud victims out of the fees and/or by issuing charge backs onward to the bank. If they facilitate a lot of fraud, raise their fees. If they refuse to pay the fees, seize the collateral and cut them off.
  - hippari 5y ago
    I find it funny in this case: If they operate from a bank in China then the Chinese gov. will block all tech exports to US until you unblock their bank.
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  You prosecute the ad companies that are complicit and assist them in their endeavors. The scammer himself might be out of reach of US law enforcement, but Google which is promoting their scams (and getting paid for it) is definitely not.
tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
The problem is that it's hard to draw a clear line between legitimate consulting, and fraud. If the government forms are byzantine and you go to a lawyer and pay them $250 to fill them for you, you aren't being scammed. If you visit a web site that clearly tells you that it's a third party website, you can waste your time with the horrible government site, or you can pay 10 bucks and use their optimized form, you're not being scammed. If the web site now shrinks their disclosure a bit, maybe moves it below the fold, jacks up the price... at some point 90% of the people would agree that they're "scamming" people, in the colloquial sense, but this lack of a clear line makes it hard to charge them criminally. The way to handle this would be to 1. require clear disclosure for any kind of "online 'government bureaucracy help' service", with everything (font size, contrast, cannot be showing anything else at the same time to avoid drowning the disclosure out) 2. Make providing such "services" without the disclosure punishable by serious jail time, confiscation of any earnings, etc. 3. Actually enforce it, including through international arrest warrants, going after credit card providers when the scammers are abroad, etc. 4. Follow up to see if the problem went away and adjust the requirements until it does. Omit any of these, and the problem will stay. And right now, none of these seems to happen.
- 8note 5y ago
  I'd still think you're being scammed if it takes 250 to fill out a form. Those companies are scamming you through the government, like they do with taxes
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    If you ask a lawyer to fill out a form for you, it's going to cost a lot of money. That's not a scam. But let's not nitpick. The example number for a non-scam full-disclosure website was $10. That seems legitimate to me.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

> This stuff needs to be regulated, Regulated? Fraud is illegal. It needs to be PROSECUTED.

amelius 5y ago

Perhaps if we all start using all-caps, somebody in government will hear us. You are right, of course.

WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
> Perhaps if we all start using all-caps, somebody in government will hear us YES - THE NAVY

YetAnotherNick 5y ago

How will you prosecute them? Not only most scammers are nameless, but most are from countries where government needs to fix lot of things before they are effective against scammers.

notyourday 5y ago
That's easy. Those scams operate because the countries/players have access to the US financial system. You provide the incentives to the countries to fix their problem by cutting them completely off. If someone using a bank in Cyprus did it, you tell Cyprus government that in 48 hours the Fed will block all transactions with that bank and you block it. They move to another bank, you repeat it. Eventually Cyprus government ( and Cyprus banks ) have to make a choice - continue to tolerate scammers using their banks and be locked out totally out of the US financial system or crack down on the scammers.
- YetAnotherNick 5y ago
  While we are at it, let's also throw 2-3 nukes to the country in case they dont fix it.
  - WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
    Well, it wouldn't be nukes but if someone who outed US Gov wrongdoing was there, I'm sure the US could force down their aircraft or whatever.
- techrat 5y ago
  You're right. Dunno why you're getting downvoted. Follow the money and report the issue to the institutions along the line. If they refuse to shut down the scammers and to stop facilitating their crimes, shut the institutions down for being an accessory.
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  Same with Robocallers... Also call them what they are. Call them terrorist and you block off the countries enabling these terrorist groups. Sanction them too
  - pavel_lishin 5y ago
    Hang on, how are robocallers terrorists?
    - encryptluks2 5y ago
      There are different types of terrorism. It falls under the cyberterrorism and critical infrastructure category.
      - pavel_lishin 5y ago
        I still don't understand how robocallers are engaging in terrorism, or damaging critical infrastructure. Don't get me wrong; I'd love to see them picking up trash on the side of the highway for next twenty years of their life, or worse. But calling everything "terrorism" really reminds me of the years following 2001.
    - PaulHoule 5y ago
      Didn't Lenin say "The purpose of terrorism is to create terror?"
      - encryptluks2 5y ago
        I don't know about you, but I'm scared anytime my phone rings that it is another robocaller.
- barbazoo 5y ago
  Or, you know, punish the platform that allows for these scams to happen.
- seoaeu 5y ago
  You don't even need to be this severe. The credit card system demonstrates how things can work: make the bank post collateral and pay a small transaction fee per transfer. Refund any fraud victims out of the fees and/or by issuing charge backs onward to the bank. If they facilitate a lot of fraud, raise their fees. If they refuse to pay the fees, seize the collateral and cut them off.
- hippari 5y ago
  I find it funny in this case: If they operate from a bank in China then the Chinese gov. will block all tech exports to US until you unblock their bank.
Nextgrid 5y ago
You prosecute the ad companies that are complicit and assist them in their endeavors. The scammer himself might be out of reach of US law enforcement, but Google which is promoting their scams (and getting paid for it) is definitely not.

tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago

The problem is that it's hard to draw a clear line between legitimate consulting, and fraud. If the government forms are byzantine and you go to a lawyer and pay them $250 to fill them for you, you aren't being scammed. If you visit a web site that clearly tells you that it's a third party website, you can waste your time with the horrible government site, or you can pay 10 bucks and use their optimized form, you're not being scammed. If the web site now shrinks their disclosure a bit, maybe moves it below the fold, jacks up the price... at some point 90% of the people would agree that they're "scamming" people, in the colloquial sense, but this lack of a clear line makes it hard to charge them criminally. The way to handle this would be to 1. require clear disclosure for any kind of "online 'government bureaucracy help' service", with everything (font size, contrast, cannot be showing anything else at the same time to avoid drowning the disclosure out) 2. Make providing such "services" without the disclosure punishable by serious jail time, confiscation of any earnings, etc. 3. Actually enforce it, including through international arrest warrants, going after credit card providers when the scammers are abroad, etc. 4. Follow up to see if the problem went away and adjust the requirements until it does. Omit any of these, and the problem will stay. And right now, none of these seems to happen.

8note 5y ago
I'd still think you're being scammed if it takes 250 to fill out a form. Those companies are scamming you through the government, like they do with taxes
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  If you ask a lawyer to fill out a form for you, it's going to cost a lot of money. That's not a scam. But let's not nitpick. The example number for a non-scam full-disclosure website was $10. That seems legitimate to me.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]