26 ms·

A brief history of people losing their minds in Antarctica

206 points by jd115 5y ago

colechristensen 5y ago
Future of expeditions to Mars?
- neatze 5y ago
  On a single usb stick we have interactive games and all human knowledge available, I think mars explorers will be just fine.
  - codetrotter 5y ago
    I think the COVID-19 pandemic has shown a lot of us that actual physical isolation from others can be much more detrimental to our mental well-being than we thought, even for those of us who were already used to being on our own for prolonged periods of time.
    - neatze 5y ago
      > I think the COVID-19 pandemic has shown a lot of us that actual physical isolation from others can be much more detrimental to our mental well-being than we thought. Can you site source for this claim, I do not see any detrimental mental health, at least in terms of people are willingness to go back to work from office.
      - yeahr4579 5y ago
        > I do not see any detrimental mental health, at least in terms of people are willingness to go back to work from office. Mind giving me a source for this? I personally feel much worse during the pandemic and most people I know do as well. If your doing better I’m happy for you but not everyone is the same.
      - argvargc 5y ago
        Mental health: 1 in 5 adults developed mental disorders - https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/science/1-in-5-adults-developed-pandemic-related-mental-disorders-analysis/article33417333.ece https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/science/1-in-5-adu... 1 in 4 young adults suicidal - https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/mental-health/527380-75-percent-of-young-adults-mentally-struggling-with https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/mental-healt... Effects of isolation on elderly - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25697700/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25697700/ https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/18590724.sedation-manage-lockdown-distress-may-led-dementia-deaths/ https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/18590724.sedation-manage... Effects of isolation on the future health of children - https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/205331 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/... https://www.unicef.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Unicef-UK-Children-In-Lockdown-Coronavirus-Impacts-Snapshot.pdf https://www.unicef.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Unicef-... Mental illness in children rising due to lockdowns - https://newschannel20.com/news/local/hospitals-see-high-rates-of-mental-illness-in-children-during-pandemic https://newschannel20.com/news/local/hospitals-see-high-rate... Half of young adults showing signs of depression - https://fee.org/articles/harvard-researchers-nearly-half-of-young-adults-showing-signs-of-depression-amid-pandemic/ https://fee.org/articles/harvard-researchers-nearly-half-of-... The mental health of students - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55105044 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55105044 Suicidal thoughts greater in those under restrictions and unchanged in those without any - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165178120323477 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016517812... Prevalence of depression before and after in the US - https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2770146 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle... Cases of depression in the US have tripled - https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/us-cases-of-depression-have-tripled-during-the-covid-19-pandemic https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/us-cases-of-depres... US Census shows 48% of Wa adults have depression - https://www.census.gov/data/tables/2020/demo/hhp/hhp15.html#tables https://www.census.gov/data/tables/2020/demo/hhp/hhp15.html#... Lockdowns pose great threat to mental health - https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/dec/27/covid-poses-greatest-threat-to-mental-health-since-second-world-war https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/dec/27/covid-poses-... Suicides: https://abc7news.com/suicide-covid-19-coronavirus-rates-during-pandemic-death-by/6201962/ https://abc7news.com/suicide-covid-19-coronavirus-rates-duri... https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/dealing-with-a-lot-suicide-crisis-calls-mount-during-covid-19-pandemic-1.5215056 https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/dealing-with-a-lot... Suicides among black people spiked during lockdowns - https://www.baltimoresun.com/health/bs-hs-black-suicides-pandemic-20201216-2g46em2d2nd5vjwlu7q2uq5x6y-story.html https://www.baltimoresun.com/health/bs-hs-black-suicides-pan... Suicides up sharply in Toronto - https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/toronto/article-suicides-on-the-ttc-have-risen-sharply-over-the-last-eight-months/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/toronto/article-suici... Trends in suicide during the pandemic - https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4352 https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4352 Canadians in quarantine twice as likely to have suicidal thoughts - https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/quarantine-mental-health-1.5809865 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/quarantine-m... Military suicides up 20% - https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-09-27/military-suicides-increase-covid-19-pandemic https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-09-27/milita... Suicides up among children - https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2020/09/24/cook-childrens-alarming-rise-suicide-patients/ https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2020/09/24/cook-childrens-alarming-...
  - pmoriarty 5y ago
    Not everyone's a gamer, and even those that are get bored with games after a while. There are even fewer readers than gamers, and even those that are get bored with reading after a while. Many people want to go outside and do something every now and then... but on the way to/from Mars there's nowhere to go, and every moment you're in space you know that on the other side of thin shield of metal lies death. Sure, people could still entertain/distract themselves and each other.. and they'll have to. But it won't necessarily be easy to do in the long term.. especially if things start going wrong, if tempers flare up, or if serious incompatibilities are discovered among the crew.
    - ericbarrett 5y ago
      > Many people want to go outside and do something every now and then... but on the way to/from Mars there's nowhere to go, and every moment you're in space you know that on the other side of thin shield of metal lies death. Not much changes when you get there, too. I think at best we will have something like McMurdo Station, for researchers on 2-3 year stints. Maybe less, since the round-trip is long and cosmic rays remain a significant health concern even when you are on Mars itself—no appreciable magnetic field and no ozone layer. Even when you're there, excursions will be limited and planned well in advance, probably not much different from spacewalks today. The rest of the time you'll be in a tiny underground bunker. Under current projections, anybody who took a trip to Mars with a ~1 year stay would exceed their lifetime radiation allowance, and would never be able to fly again. (Assuming a solar flare doesn't kill you mid-trip. Unlikely, we think, but possible.) If you're the first astronaut, or even the first dozen, this might be worth it. After that, though...? I'm sure there would be no shortage of volunteers, but we won't just need bodies, we'll need talented scientists at the top of their game who are physically and mentally healthy enough to make the trip in the first place.
      - pmoriarty 5y ago
        "we'll need talented scientists at the top of their game who are physically and mentally healthy enough to make the trip in the first place." From what I understand, the science can be done better with robots and probes anyway. So I'm not sure scientists are even necessary. But they will need dedicated, motivated, fit, and mentally stable people willing to risk and possibly give up their lives.
  - hooande 5y ago
    They had usb sticks full of data and games in Antartica in 2018, when the one scientist stabbed the other. The negative effects of isolation and lack of communication with a larger society are too complex to be solved with books or games.
  - CountDrewku 5y ago
    People that sit around playing games and using the internet all day are certainly not healthy mentally or physically. There are multiple studies showing this.
- natch 5y ago
  Was thinking the same thing. But… although I do 100% drink the Elon Koolaid about "us" colonizing Mars, I really doubt that humans, as we know them today, are the creature that is going to be there. It will instead be some planet-specific tweaked versions of us and other creatures, eventually in a different substrate even, as opposed to bags of meat. When you think of it that way, the possibilities for mental health are just a sub-problem of the larger problem of aligning AGI. I said I drink the Koolaid, and the above may sound out of line with what Elon has been saying about making humans multi-planetary. But if you read between the lines of what he says, I think this is already his view; he just doesn't say it the way I did above because (I think his reason is) the freakout factor is too high. It is consistent with what he does say. Lately he has been saying "make life multi-planetary" and "make consciousness multi-planetary" not just humans. He still says humans too but it may be a loose usage of the word humans, and I don't doubt there will be a transition period with some homo sapiens. Long term, not so much. OK that kind of got far afield but the point is mental health is going to be a different equation by that point. Maybe harder actually, but different.
  - katmannthree 5y ago
    Not just mental health, but physical as well. Humans are not well suited for long term high G environments, while I have every expectation that we will someday make it to other planetary systems I doubt the meatbags will be coming along.
    - natch 5y ago
      Yes absolutely.
    - plugger 5y ago
      It's the solar radiation, not high G's, that is the main problem with colonising Mars given Mars doesn't have a functional magnetosphere. At best Martian colonists will be the modern day equivalent of Morlocks if they want to have a sustainable colony on mars.
      - davedx 5y ago
- TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
  Even the Moon. ISS visitors are selected very, very carefully to minimise these risks. But as soon as you get a slightly larger colony further from Earth, mental health is going to become a problem. Which is why Mars is a tougher project than it seems. The ferry part is relatively easy compared to the incredibly difficult challenge of building a self-sustaining stable ecosystem that can survive on a manageably small umbilical to Earth, and the even harder challenge of building a political system that doesn't explode into factional war, regular suicides, and/or mad dictatorship. Musk is already a little eccentric and doesn't seem like someone with the world's highest EQ. I suspect he's underestimating how hard it's going to be to make a colony work.
  - permo-w 5y ago
    I think the one of the main problems, lack of sunlight, shouldn’t be a huge issue on mars. Nutrition and a sufficiently large social, group on the other hand, may be a problem
    - davedx 5y ago
      Mars has significantly less sunlight (in terms of irradiance) than Earth
      - animal531 5y ago
        True, but a day on Mars is pretty much the same length as on Earth, which is great for the human cycle. Googling says that lux 100k on Earth would be roughly 44k on Mars, so a lot dimmer, but still better than months of darkness on end. Now the real question is whether colonists can/will live on the surface? But then a secondary addition, due to modern technology we now have much better lighting that can approximate natural lighting, even underground.
        loufe 5y ago
        In every book I've read on the subject they mentioned going underground to protect against radiation. The lack of a thick magnetosphere apparently means any surface equipment / personel would be subject to unacceptably high quantities of solar radiation. I guess living in a hole on another planet isn't as glorious as giant geodesic glass domes but I sure hope somebody does sign up for it.
- detritus 5y ago
  I suspect, yes - I imagine that a lot of the mental trauma stems from a feeling of helplessness being trapped beyond the furthest boundary fringes of our typical existence. If technology develops enough and we can have a fleet of starships on stand-by, then the moon might not be so bewilderingly frightening a place to feel trapped as Mars would, with its much longer journey times and periodically grander distances and Delta-Vs from Earth.
neatze 5y ago
> Among the first things he said when he rediscovered his voice was that he was going to murder his superior, chief engineer Henri Somers, as soon as he had the chance. One has to wonder what where his thoughts for two weeks ..., probably, for whatever reason thoughts where around time when engineer told him something that he did not like, and it was so minor, he would forget about next day in normal times, without giving any thought what so ever.
- op03 5y ago
  "I need some Belgian fries. Right now!"
iamarkadyt 5y ago
Future of space explorations for sure. Similar situation portrayed in Ad Astra (2019) where the main hero's father have gotten stranded on a space station on the edge of the solar system for many years and went insane. Humans are delicate machines. Gotta know how to keep the monkey happy.
- walleeee 5y ago
  Humans are machines?
- imbnwa 5y ago
  Orangutans are about as good as it gets at enduring solitude for apes, possibly all primates, and even then females don't live far from their mother and sisters, and children require 9 years of attention and frequent physical contact.
- BuildTheRobots 5y ago
  Can't help but think of the short story of a group of explorers encountering what turns out to be an endless space station: http://geosci.uchicago.edu/~kite/doc/roauss.htm http://geosci.uchicago.edu/~kite/doc/roauss.htm
gibolt 5y ago
Related video by Joe Scott: Murder at the South Pole https://youtu.be/KtYhEaWi4lk https://youtu.be/KtYhEaWi4lk
- flobosg 5y ago
  Also related: Scott and Scurvy https://idlewords.com/2010/03/scott_and_scurvy.htm https://idlewords.com/2010/03/scott_and_scurvy.htm
- graderjs 5y ago
  Related video US Army classified film Camp Century https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ujx_pND9wg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ujx_pND9wg
fifilura 5y ago
It is funny and slightly dissonant that Roald Amundsen, the greatest polar explorer of all (forgive me Fridtjof) is mentioned in a subordinate clause as "The Belgica’s first mate, a fellow Norwegian named Roald Amundsen".
- rexarex 5y ago
  I too noticed that the author didn’t connect the first man at the South Pole with Amundsen
  - permo-w 5y ago
    Yeah I also thought that was weird. This article is adapted from a book, so maybe his accomplishments are noted in an earlier, more detailed description of the expedition
eisvogel 5y ago
They merely ventured too close to the forbidden plateau of Leh.
- puchatek 5y ago
  Leng
fileeditview 5y ago
I see that H.P. Lovecraft is mentioned but not his work on the topic: "At the Mountains of Madness". I recently discovered a great adaptation of his book by the Japanese Artist Gou Tanabe. If you are into B&W ink drawings you should really check out Tanabe's books.
- rvba 5y ago
  The Gou Tanabe adaptation deserves much more recognition among HP Lovecraft fans: it is simply fascinating. The story is told so well + the chapters about history of alien beings are just great. Gou Tanabe's "Color from Outer Space" and "Haunter of the dark are great too, but "At the mountains of madness" is probably the best.
- strictnein 5y ago
  Haven't read all of Lovecraft, but my favorite story of his is "At the Mountains of Madness". I really enjoyed this audiobook of it as well: https://www.audible.com/pd/At-the-Mountains-of-Madness-Blackstone-Edition-Audiobook/B00D2D1RAE https://www.audible.com/pd/At-the-Mountains-of-Madness-Black... I hope someday that Guillermo del Toro is able to make a movie adaptation. https://movieweb.com/at-the-mountains-of-madness-movie-guillermo-del-toro/ https://movieweb.com/at-the-mountains-of-madness-movie-guill...
  - remarkEon 5y ago
    It’s a terrifying book. The pace and forced anticipation of it is brilliant, and was the first book to give me nightmares as a kid. A del Toro adaptation would be similarly fear inducing.
mrslave 5y ago
Some of the people profiled in Werner Herzog's Encounters at the End of the World look like they might be suffering at least a little isolation sickness or cabin fever.
ggregoire 5y ago
On that topic, I recommend the first season of The Terror. Plot from Wikipedia: "The Terror is a fictionalized account of Captain Sir John Franklin's lost expedition to the Arctic in 1845–1848. The series' first season begins with the Royal Navy's polar explorer ships HMS Erebus and HMS Terror having recently left Beechey Island in the Canadian Arctic Archipelago, heading south toward King William Island into uncharted territory, seeking to find and confirm the existence and navigability of the fabled Northwest Passage. The ships are soon frozen and trapped in the ice, and those aboard must survive the harsh weather conditions and each other, while being stalked by an elusive menace."
- alickz 5y ago
  I really, really loved the first season of the Terror. I would recommend it to anyone who enjoys that genre of stranded arctic explorers. Pretty much anything with Jared Harris in it is good (The Expanse, Fringe, Chernobyl)
  - hinkley 5y ago
    I hope Foundation is as good as it is pretty...
- DanBC 5y ago
  It's good! The book is also enjoyable, and covers a little bit more detail.
permo-w 5y ago
First >A current theory among social scientists suggests that pibloktoq [a temporary madness found in Inuhuit peoples] was not a congenital malady peculiar to the Inuhuit but rather a severe stress reaction arising from early contact with Western outsiders. Could someone explain this theory to me? secondly, I sincerely doubt that the early expeditions had anything remotely resembling adequate nutrition, besides enough vitamin C to prevent scurvy. I would imagine a very restricted diet combined with not seeing the sun for 6 months would fuck up a lot of people
- naoru 5y ago
  > a very restricted diet combined with not seeing the sun for 6 months That's not an expedition. That's Russia. Now you know why majority of Russians are terminally funny in the head.
  - rm_-rf_slash 5y ago
    I was talking to a colleague who has spent the last few years living in southern Sweden (as in, hardly the most arctic conditions in the country), who described the winter months as a perpetual “jet lag” kind of feeling. I brought that up with my partner who is from Florida (we live in NY) and she said the feeling is mutual, even though the time difference is less extreme. There’s just something about long periods of cold and darkness that messes with peoples heads, especially if they didn’t grow up with it.
    - permo-w 5y ago
      I absolutely feel this in the UK. It’s probably worse for me because I tend to spend a lot of time indoors
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - dang 5y ago
    Nationalistic flamebait is not allowed on HN, regardless of what country you're talking about. No more of this, please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
danielovichdk 5y ago
I love these old stories of people who really had a pair of balls. Real women and men show real guts by taking huge chances with their mental state and life in general. Today we sacrifice the same two things but for so much less. It's sad.
hellbannedguy 5y ago
I have thought for awhile that the best space voyagers, or guys whom are going to be isolated, are individuals who already had minor breakdowns when they were younger. That includes so many of us? Why? Because they know the crazy thoughts will pass. I'm not talking about individuals with serious mental illness like Schizophrenia, or have a genetic lineage of mental illness. I'm talking people that have survived mild mental illnesses, like dysthymia, and anxiety. People who know the craziness in their heads will go away, and realize the world is imperfect. Realize they are far from perfect. Realize their way might not be the best way. I'm usually leary of the "perfect" candidates that get these coveted positions. Yes--I'm leary of the Ph.D types whom sailed through school. The ones with a big egos that feel they feel like they are the best, and claim they were never sick at sea. I think we have all met the type? Put a few of those people in real isolation, and danger, with peers just like themselfs-- seems like a horrid recipe for disaster? (At one time I felt like I controlled my surroundings. A few blown mental gaskets made me a more tolerant person. It did mess with my resume though. I felt the same way right after 911. i felt the FBI should be recruiting intelligent convicts at San Quentin, or wherever, rather than the guy with the 4 year degree who took a good head shot. I changed my tune when I realized the enemy of 911 was nuanced, and not so straight foreward, but I still felt you hire guys whom break societal laws in order to find the bad guys.)
- danuker 5y ago
  > Why? Because they know the crazy thoughts will pass. I am not a psychologist nor anything similar, but wouldn't people who have gone through the same conditions without having the crazy thoughts in the first place be better suited for the job?
  - haar 5y ago
    Two schools of thought? - Those that really try hard to make sure the computer cannot crash. - Those that see the computer crashing as an inevitability, and want to ensure the appropriate behaviours are in place when it does happen.
    - 5y ago
sampo 5y ago
In 1893, Fridtjof Nansen took a ship with a 12 men crew to North of East Siberia, purposefully sailed the ship to get stuck in sea ice, and hoped that the ice movement with ocean currents would take them to the North Pole. The ship spent 3 years stuck in ice, but didn't quite flow over the North Pole. These people didn't go mad. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nansen%27s_Fram_expedition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nansen%27s_Fram_expedition
- JohnJamesRambo 5y ago
  What kind of food did they store and eat that was to last five years? And water? The wiki is light on these details in my skimming of it.
  - budlightvirus 5y ago
    They mention building a shelter with walrus hides so I'd imagine they did a fair amount of hunting rather than trying to bring all their supplies with them from the outset. Shackleton's voyage used a similar approach.
    - fifilura 5y ago
      At this period in time, before Vitamin C was discovered, fresh meat, in particularly raw meat, was critical for survival. The canned food didn't contain vitamin C so scurvy was a constant problem. The competent explorers learned the habit of eating raw meat from the inuits. That said, the walrus hut was built by Nansen and Johansen after leaving the ship.
- JamesSwift 5y ago
  That wiki article was a super interesting read. I might find a book that goes more in depth.
  - fifilura 5y ago
    Try Ronald Huntford's biographies. His books about Amundsen/Scott and Shackleton are also worthwhile. Such an amazing period. In summary, Shackleton and Nansen are admirable for courage an endurance. But Amundsen is far ahead of them all in competence, and that is what counts. And then you can also try "The worst journey in the world" by Ansley Cherry-Garrard. An expedition in darkness...
intricatedetail 5y ago
If explorers had shrooms, weed and some way to play music, I think they'd be good. Unfortunately there is still a "no fun" camp at the head of decision making.
- fleetingmoments 5y ago
  Freely available hallucinogens at the pole would make things 1000x worse.
  - dennisnedry 5y ago
    Magic mushrooms are now being used to treat anxiety. Just something to consider when dealing with a situation that creates massive amounts of anxiety (being stuck in ice with no way out).
    - Applejinx 5y ago
      I am really not sure I'd want to be stuck in ice, ON ACID, with no way out :) …though I think your point is, that while you're stuck in ice with no way out, all the mental stability structures you build to connect yourself to reality are bad and harmful. And being on drugs and disrupting your reality, breaking down your preconceptions etc. would be more along the lines of continually breaking down the BAD mental structures you're inevitably building, due to correct appraisal of your situation. Still doesn't sound awesome though :)
uwagar 5y ago
severe corona lockdown risks bringing antartical environment to our neighborhoods. these articles (the one about kuru disease due to misbehaving protein think spike protein) seem to covertly suggest that possibility.
hdnl 5y ago
A confluence of factors are present in the described episodes of people 'losing their minds'. The highlighted two were the harsh physical environment and relative social isolation/vacuum. The harsh physical environment is, to my understanding, intractable. However, the social environment is less so. How are those headed to Antarctica trained with respect to mental health and 'working with a team' (e.g. communication) skills?
chaganated 5y ago
"We are all in Danger, it is Evil Itself"
fit2rule 5y ago
This makes me wonder what sort of steps will be taken to avert this kind of catastrophe when we finally get to Mars. In fact there are so many pyscho-/social aspects of the journey to Mars, and eventually landing, that I really wonder what steps are in place to ensure things stay on the rails. I can imagine a scenario where we finally get to Mars, but are defeated by our own minds. I truly hope someone is working on this issue before we get there ..
JoeAltmaier 5y ago
You can sustain a lot, when you know you will have respite. I've got a weekend off in April, I can make it until then! As folks remark something like a Mars mission may be a life sentence. It will be a different ballgame. It almost seems inevitable that folks will break. A common occurrence on the early pioneer prairies in America was mental health problems. My Dad was 3rd generation in Iowa, and he knew several older folks who'd lost the plot. They talked exclusively of their past; they didn't follow conversations; they only functioned within their small world of the farmstead. They were largely treated normally as far as could be managed. But they had a relatively congenial ecosystem to live within. Won't be that way on a Mars colony.
- Consultant32452 5y ago
  Basically every person they send to Mars needs to be mildly autistic. Highly regimented, low social needs, etc.
  - adonovan 5y ago
    I suspect one would need bigger problems than autism to willingly give up, forever, the opportunity to experience life's most basic pleasures: walking, wind, water, grass, trees, flowers, sunlight, food, and other people.
    - JoeAltmaier 5y ago
      Yet there are a generation of people today that are essentially hermits in their apartments, who do that.
      - wolverine876 5y ago
        Do you mean during the pandemic? Otherwise, how big is this population?
        JoeAltmaier 5y ago
throwkeep 5y ago
A modern version of this is people losing their minds on Twitter. Consumed by anger, paranoia, hysteria, all day, every day.
- georgeecollins 5y ago
  And a futuristic version will be Mars. Mars twitter will be the mouth of madness.
wiradikusuma 5y ago
I wonder if digital entertainment (e.g. thousands of 1080p movies in a 10TB HDD) could make being there "bearable". You don't have to enjoy it alone, you have shipmates. Maybe even internet (satellite connection)?
- nwsm 5y ago
  Some relevant excerpts: > Still today in Antarctic research stations, as modern amenities dull the ferocity of the environment and digital communications keep year-round personnel in touch with the outside world, madness lurks in the corridors. > A study of 313 men and women conducted at McMurdo Station in the 1990s revealed that 5.2 percent of those surveyed suffered from a psychiatric disorder. While this rate is slightly lower than among the general population of the United States, it should be noted that all station personnel are rigorously screened for such disorders before arriving. The Antarctic had made them lose their bearings.
- freshair 5y ago
  Maybe this could work for some. Personally, if I watch more than a few movies in a week I begin to feel like I'm losing my mind. I think variety is key, and not just having a variety of movies. Mix in some books and video games (particularly ones that foster creativity) and I think the odds of success will be much higher.
igammarays 5y ago
It doesn't have to be Antartica, although that's a bit of an extreme example. Plenty of people I know have "lost it", albeit to a less extreme degree, after just a few years of culture shock, after moving to a different country. Life is hard, and few people have what it takes to survive without the social safety net of everything that is familiar to them.
3pt14159 5y ago
I found the Wikipedia article for the first mentioned story quite interesting as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_Antarctic_Expedition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_Antarctic_Expedition
vocatus_gate 5y ago
I wintered over in Antarctica in 2016. Drinking definitely increased during the dark months.
101001001001 5y ago
People who had poor mental health outcomes during COVID were mostly extroverted. Introverts actually did better, including myself. Losing your mind comes from the machinery of the brain failing, which is almost always caused by stress in these kinds of scenarios. Emotional stress is the most acute kind of stress. Isolation and unrelenting physical danger are very emotionally stressful. It doesn’t intrinsically create psychosis, it creates stress which might cause psychosis. The human race is filled with stories just as harrowing as a well funded and planned Mars colonization where people made it through. If you disagree you simply haven’t read your history. Life 2000 years ago was unimaginably cruel, let alone one million years ago. Just because people in 2020 mash together stress, depression, psychosis and other things doesn’t mean anything. These mental illnesses have biochemical underpinnings and they aren’t intrinsic aspects of the human experience or doing certain things, like going to Mars. People fetishize the impossibility of things. They also fetishize doom. Global warming has become political not only because of the people who deny it but also because of the people who fetishize the doom and gloom of it. You can recognize these people by talking to them about potential solutions or how to fix it. Invariably they don’t want to think about solutions, think it’s impossible to escape the end of the world and tend to want to turn to some kind of spiritual/naturalistic repentance even though it wouldn’t fix anything when you run the numbers. Same thing with Mars. People fetishize the impossibility of it. You can’t possibly go there without going insane. The radiation will be impossible to deal with. The gravity can’t possibly sustain human life. It’s all hyperbole. There’s valid counterpoints to all of it. But it goes in one ear... and out the other.
teh_infallible 5y ago
The symptoms remind me a bit of nitrogen narcosis, which affects scuba divers at deep depths. I have heard it makes people paranoid. One dive master told me about a diver who tore out her regulator and swam frantically towards him, signaling she was out of air. She had a nearly full tank.
Gauge_Irrahphe 5y ago
Obviously it's a cubit error from a cosmic ray from which their brain cannot recover. /jk

206 points by jd115 5y ago

colechristensen 5y ago

Future of expeditions to Mars?

neatze 5y ago
On a single usb stick we have interactive games and all human knowledge available, I think mars explorers will be just fine.
- codetrotter 5y ago
  I think the COVID-19 pandemic has shown a lot of us that actual physical isolation from others can be much more detrimental to our mental well-being than we thought, even for those of us who were already used to being on our own for prolonged periods of time.
  - neatze 5y ago
    > I think the COVID-19 pandemic has shown a lot of us that actual physical isolation from others can be much more detrimental to our mental well-being than we thought. Can you site source for this claim, I do not see any detrimental mental health, at least in terms of people are willingness to go back to work from office.
    - yeahr4579 5y ago
      > I do not see any detrimental mental health, at least in terms of people are willingness to go back to work from office. Mind giving me a source for this? I personally feel much worse during the pandemic and most people I know do as well. If your doing better I’m happy for you but not everyone is the same.
    - argvargc 5y ago
      Mental health: 1 in 5 adults developed mental disorders - https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/science/1-in-5-adults-developed-pandemic-related-mental-disorders-analysis/article33417333.ece https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/science/1-in-5-adu... 1 in 4 young adults suicidal - https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/mental-health/527380-75-percent-of-young-adults-mentally-struggling-with https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/mental-healt... Effects of isolation on elderly - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25697700/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25697700/ https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/18590724.sedation-manage-lockdown-distress-may-led-dementia-deaths/ https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/18590724.sedation-manage... Effects of isolation on the future health of children - https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/205331 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/... https://www.unicef.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Unicef-UK-Children-In-Lockdown-Coronavirus-Impacts-Snapshot.pdf https://www.unicef.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Unicef-... Mental illness in children rising due to lockdowns - https://newschannel20.com/news/local/hospitals-see-high-rates-of-mental-illness-in-children-during-pandemic https://newschannel20.com/news/local/hospitals-see-high-rate... Half of young adults showing signs of depression - https://fee.org/articles/harvard-researchers-nearly-half-of-young-adults-showing-signs-of-depression-amid-pandemic/ https://fee.org/articles/harvard-researchers-nearly-half-of-... The mental health of students - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55105044 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55105044 Suicidal thoughts greater in those under restrictions and unchanged in those without any - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165178120323477 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016517812... Prevalence of depression before and after in the US - https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2770146 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle... Cases of depression in the US have tripled - https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/us-cases-of-depression-have-tripled-during-the-covid-19-pandemic https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/us-cases-of-depres... US Census shows 48% of Wa adults have depression - https://www.census.gov/data/tables/2020/demo/hhp/hhp15.html#tables https://www.census.gov/data/tables/2020/demo/hhp/hhp15.html#... Lockdowns pose great threat to mental health - https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/dec/27/covid-poses-greatest-threat-to-mental-health-since-second-world-war https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/dec/27/covid-poses-... Suicides: https://abc7news.com/suicide-covid-19-coronavirus-rates-during-pandemic-death-by/6201962/ https://abc7news.com/suicide-covid-19-coronavirus-rates-duri... https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/dealing-with-a-lot-suicide-crisis-calls-mount-during-covid-19-pandemic-1.5215056 https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/dealing-with-a-lot... Suicides among black people spiked during lockdowns - https://www.baltimoresun.com/health/bs-hs-black-suicides-pandemic-20201216-2g46em2d2nd5vjwlu7q2uq5x6y-story.html https://www.baltimoresun.com/health/bs-hs-black-suicides-pan... Suicides up sharply in Toronto - https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/toronto/article-suicides-on-the-ttc-have-risen-sharply-over-the-last-eight-months/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/toronto/article-suici... Trends in suicide during the pandemic - https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4352 https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4352 Canadians in quarantine twice as likely to have suicidal thoughts - https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/quarantine-mental-health-1.5809865 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/quarantine-m... Military suicides up 20% - https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-09-27/military-suicides-increase-covid-19-pandemic https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-09-27/milita... Suicides up among children - https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2020/09/24/cook-childrens-alarming-rise-suicide-patients/ https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2020/09/24/cook-childrens-alarming-...
- pmoriarty 5y ago
  Not everyone's a gamer, and even those that are get bored with games after a while. There are even fewer readers than gamers, and even those that are get bored with reading after a while. Many people want to go outside and do something every now and then... but on the way to/from Mars there's nowhere to go, and every moment you're in space you know that on the other side of thin shield of metal lies death. Sure, people could still entertain/distract themselves and each other.. and they'll have to. But it won't necessarily be easy to do in the long term.. especially if things start going wrong, if tempers flare up, or if serious incompatibilities are discovered among the crew.
  - ericbarrett 5y ago
    > Many people want to go outside and do something every now and then... but on the way to/from Mars there's nowhere to go, and every moment you're in space you know that on the other side of thin shield of metal lies death. Not much changes when you get there, too. I think at best we will have something like McMurdo Station, for researchers on 2-3 year stints. Maybe less, since the round-trip is long and cosmic rays remain a significant health concern even when you are on Mars itself—no appreciable magnetic field and no ozone layer. Even when you're there, excursions will be limited and planned well in advance, probably not much different from spacewalks today. The rest of the time you'll be in a tiny underground bunker. Under current projections, anybody who took a trip to Mars with a ~1 year stay would exceed their lifetime radiation allowance, and would never be able to fly again. (Assuming a solar flare doesn't kill you mid-trip. Unlikely, we think, but possible.) If you're the first astronaut, or even the first dozen, this might be worth it. After that, though...? I'm sure there would be no shortage of volunteers, but we won't just need bodies, we'll need talented scientists at the top of their game who are physically and mentally healthy enough to make the trip in the first place.
    - pmoriarty 5y ago
      "we'll need talented scientists at the top of their game who are physically and mentally healthy enough to make the trip in the first place." From what I understand, the science can be done better with robots and probes anyway. So I'm not sure scientists are even necessary. But they will need dedicated, motivated, fit, and mentally stable people willing to risk and possibly give up their lives.
- hooande 5y ago
  They had usb sticks full of data and games in Antartica in 2018, when the one scientist stabbed the other. The negative effects of isolation and lack of communication with a larger society are too complex to be solved with books or games.
- CountDrewku 5y ago
  People that sit around playing games and using the internet all day are certainly not healthy mentally or physically. There are multiple studies showing this.
natch 5y ago
Was thinking the same thing. But… although I do 100% drink the Elon Koolaid about "us" colonizing Mars, I really doubt that humans, as we know them today, are the creature that is going to be there. It will instead be some planet-specific tweaked versions of us and other creatures, eventually in a different substrate even, as opposed to bags of meat. When you think of it that way, the possibilities for mental health are just a sub-problem of the larger problem of aligning AGI. I said I drink the Koolaid, and the above may sound out of line with what Elon has been saying about making humans multi-planetary. But if you read between the lines of what he says, I think this is already his view; he just doesn't say it the way I did above because (I think his reason is) the freakout factor is too high. It is consistent with what he does say. Lately he has been saying "make life multi-planetary" and "make consciousness multi-planetary" not just humans. He still says humans too but it may be a loose usage of the word humans, and I don't doubt there will be a transition period with some homo sapiens. Long term, not so much. OK that kind of got far afield but the point is mental health is going to be a different equation by that point. Maybe harder actually, but different.
- katmannthree 5y ago
  Not just mental health, but physical as well. Humans are not well suited for long term high G environments, while I have every expectation that we will someday make it to other planetary systems I doubt the meatbags will be coming along.
  - natch 5y ago
    Yes absolutely.
  - plugger 5y ago
    It's the solar radiation, not high G's, that is the main problem with colonising Mars given Mars doesn't have a functional magnetosphere. At best Martian colonists will be the modern day equivalent of Morlocks if they want to have a sustainable colony on mars.
    - davedx 5y ago
TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
Even the Moon. ISS visitors are selected very, very carefully to minimise these risks. But as soon as you get a slightly larger colony further from Earth, mental health is going to become a problem. Which is why Mars is a tougher project than it seems. The ferry part is relatively easy compared to the incredibly difficult challenge of building a self-sustaining stable ecosystem that can survive on a manageably small umbilical to Earth, and the even harder challenge of building a political system that doesn't explode into factional war, regular suicides, and/or mad dictatorship. Musk is already a little eccentric and doesn't seem like someone with the world's highest EQ. I suspect he's underestimating how hard it's going to be to make a colony work.
- permo-w 5y ago
  I think the one of the main problems, lack of sunlight, shouldn’t be a huge issue on mars. Nutrition and a sufficiently large social, group on the other hand, may be a problem
  - davedx 5y ago
    Mars has significantly less sunlight (in terms of irradiance) than Earth
    - animal531 5y ago
      True, but a day on Mars is pretty much the same length as on Earth, which is great for the human cycle. Googling says that lux 100k on Earth would be roughly 44k on Mars, so a lot dimmer, but still better than months of darkness on end. Now the real question is whether colonists can/will live on the surface? But then a secondary addition, due to modern technology we now have much better lighting that can approximate natural lighting, even underground.
      - loufe 5y ago
        In every book I've read on the subject they mentioned going underground to protect against radiation. The lack of a thick magnetosphere apparently means any surface equipment / personel would be subject to unacceptably high quantities of solar radiation. I guess living in a hole on another planet isn't as glorious as giant geodesic glass domes but I sure hope somebody does sign up for it.
detritus 5y ago
I suspect, yes - I imagine that a lot of the mental trauma stems from a feeling of helplessness being trapped beyond the furthest boundary fringes of our typical existence. If technology develops enough and we can have a fleet of starships on stand-by, then the moon might not be so bewilderingly frightening a place to feel trapped as Mars would, with its much longer journey times and periodically grander distances and Delta-Vs from Earth.

neatze 5y ago

> Among the first things he said when he rediscovered his voice was that he was going to murder his superior, chief engineer Henri Somers, as soon as he had the chance. One has to wonder what where his thoughts for two weeks ..., probably, for whatever reason thoughts where around time when engineer told him something that he did not like, and it was so minor, he would forget about next day in normal times, without giving any thought what so ever.

op03 5y ago
"I need some Belgian fries. Right now!"

iamarkadyt 5y ago

Future of space explorations for sure. Similar situation portrayed in Ad Astra (2019) where the main hero's father have gotten stranded on a space station on the edge of the solar system for many years and went insane. Humans are delicate machines. Gotta know how to keep the monkey happy.

walleeee 5y ago
Humans are machines?
imbnwa 5y ago
Orangutans are about as good as it gets at enduring solitude for apes, possibly all primates, and even then females don't live far from their mother and sisters, and children require 9 years of attention and frequent physical contact.
BuildTheRobots 5y ago
Can't help but think of the short story of a group of explorers encountering what turns out to be an endless space station: http://geosci.uchicago.edu/~kite/doc/roauss.htm http://geosci.uchicago.edu/~kite/doc/roauss.htm

gibolt 5y ago

Related video by Joe Scott: Murder at the South Pole https://youtu.be/KtYhEaWi4lk https://youtu.be/KtYhEaWi4lk

flobosg 5y ago
Also related: Scott and Scurvy https://idlewords.com/2010/03/scott_and_scurvy.htm https://idlewords.com/2010/03/scott_and_scurvy.htm
graderjs 5y ago
Related video US Army classified film Camp Century https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ujx_pND9wg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ujx_pND9wg

fifilura 5y ago

It is funny and slightly dissonant that Roald Amundsen, the greatest polar explorer of all (forgive me Fridtjof) is mentioned in a subordinate clause as "The Belgica’s first mate, a fellow Norwegian named Roald Amundsen".

rexarex 5y ago
I too noticed that the author didn’t connect the first man at the South Pole with Amundsen
- permo-w 5y ago
  Yeah I also thought that was weird. This article is adapted from a book, so maybe his accomplishments are noted in an earlier, more detailed description of the expedition

eisvogel 5y ago

They merely ventured too close to the forbidden plateau of Leh.

puchatek 5y ago
Leng

fileeditview 5y ago

I see that H.P. Lovecraft is mentioned but not his work on the topic: "At the Mountains of Madness". I recently discovered a great adaptation of his book by the Japanese Artist Gou Tanabe. If you are into B&W ink drawings you should really check out Tanabe's books.

rvba 5y ago
The Gou Tanabe adaptation deserves much more recognition among HP Lovecraft fans: it is simply fascinating. The story is told so well + the chapters about history of alien beings are just great. Gou Tanabe's "Color from Outer Space" and "Haunter of the dark are great too, but "At the mountains of madness" is probably the best.
strictnein 5y ago
Haven't read all of Lovecraft, but my favorite story of his is "At the Mountains of Madness". I really enjoyed this audiobook of it as well: https://www.audible.com/pd/At-the-Mountains-of-Madness-Blackstone-Edition-Audiobook/B00D2D1RAE https://www.audible.com/pd/At-the-Mountains-of-Madness-Black... I hope someday that Guillermo del Toro is able to make a movie adaptation. https://movieweb.com/at-the-mountains-of-madness-movie-guillermo-del-toro/ https://movieweb.com/at-the-mountains-of-madness-movie-guill...
- remarkEon 5y ago
  It’s a terrifying book. The pace and forced anticipation of it is brilliant, and was the first book to give me nightmares as a kid. A del Toro adaptation would be similarly fear inducing.

mrslave 5y ago

Some of the people profiled in Werner Herzog's Encounters at the End of the World look like they might be suffering at least a little isolation sickness or cabin fever.

ggregoire 5y ago

On that topic, I recommend the first season of The Terror. Plot from Wikipedia: "The Terror is a fictionalized account of Captain Sir John Franklin's lost expedition to the Arctic in 1845–1848. The series' first season begins with the Royal Navy's polar explorer ships HMS Erebus and HMS Terror having recently left Beechey Island in the Canadian Arctic Archipelago, heading south toward King William Island into uncharted territory, seeking to find and confirm the existence and navigability of the fabled Northwest Passage. The ships are soon frozen and trapped in the ice, and those aboard must survive the harsh weather conditions and each other, while being stalked by an elusive menace."

alickz 5y ago
I really, really loved the first season of the Terror. I would recommend it to anyone who enjoys that genre of stranded arctic explorers. Pretty much anything with Jared Harris in it is good (The Expanse, Fringe, Chernobyl)
- hinkley 5y ago
  I hope Foundation is as good as it is pretty...
DanBC 5y ago
It's good! The book is also enjoyable, and covers a little bit more detail.

permo-w 5y ago

First >A current theory among social scientists suggests that pibloktoq [a temporary madness found in Inuhuit peoples] was not a congenital malady peculiar to the Inuhuit but rather a severe stress reaction arising from early contact with Western outsiders. Could someone explain this theory to me? secondly, I sincerely doubt that the early expeditions had anything remotely resembling adequate nutrition, besides enough vitamin C to prevent scurvy. I would imagine a very restricted diet combined with not seeing the sun for 6 months would fuck up a lot of people

naoru 5y ago
> a very restricted diet combined with not seeing the sun for 6 months That's not an expedition. That's Russia. Now you know why majority of Russians are terminally funny in the head.
- rm_-rf_slash 5y ago
  I was talking to a colleague who has spent the last few years living in southern Sweden (as in, hardly the most arctic conditions in the country), who described the winter months as a perpetual “jet lag” kind of feeling. I brought that up with my partner who is from Florida (we live in NY) and she said the feeling is mutual, even though the time difference is less extreme. There’s just something about long periods of cold and darkness that messes with peoples heads, especially if they didn’t grow up with it.
  - permo-w 5y ago
    I absolutely feel this in the UK. It’s probably worse for me because I tend to spend a lot of time indoors
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- dang 5y ago
  Nationalistic flamebait is not allowed on HN, regardless of what country you're talking about. No more of this, please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

danielovichdk 5y ago

I love these old stories of people who really had a pair of balls. Real women and men show real guts by taking huge chances with their mental state and life in general. Today we sacrifice the same two things but for so much less. It's sad.

hellbannedguy 5y ago

I have thought for awhile that the best space voyagers, or guys whom are going to be isolated, are individuals who already had minor breakdowns when they were younger. That includes so many of us? Why? Because they know the crazy thoughts will pass. I'm not talking about individuals with serious mental illness like Schizophrenia, or have a genetic lineage of mental illness. I'm talking people that have survived mild mental illnesses, like dysthymia, and anxiety. People who know the craziness in their heads will go away, and realize the world is imperfect. Realize they are far from perfect. Realize their way might not be the best way. I'm usually leary of the "perfect" candidates that get these coveted positions. Yes--I'm leary of the Ph.D types whom sailed through school. The ones with a big egos that feel they feel like they are the best, and claim they were never sick at sea. I think we have all met the type? Put a few of those people in real isolation, and danger, with peers just like themselfs-- seems like a horrid recipe for disaster? (At one time I felt like I controlled my surroundings. A few blown mental gaskets made me a more tolerant person. It did mess with my resume though. I felt the same way right after 911. i felt the FBI should be recruiting intelligent convicts at San Quentin, or wherever, rather than the guy with the 4 year degree who took a good head shot. I changed my tune when I realized the enemy of 911 was nuanced, and not so straight foreward, but I still felt you hire guys whom break societal laws in order to find the bad guys.)

danuker 5y ago
> Why? Because they know the crazy thoughts will pass. I am not a psychologist nor anything similar, but wouldn't people who have gone through the same conditions without having the crazy thoughts in the first place be better suited for the job?
- haar 5y ago
  Two schools of thought? - Those that really try hard to make sure the computer cannot crash. - Those that see the computer crashing as an inevitability, and want to ensure the appropriate behaviours are in place when it does happen.
  - 5y ago

sampo 5y ago

In 1893, Fridtjof Nansen took a ship with a 12 men crew to North of East Siberia, purposefully sailed the ship to get stuck in sea ice, and hoped that the ice movement with ocean currents would take them to the North Pole. The ship spent 3 years stuck in ice, but didn't quite flow over the North Pole. These people didn't go mad. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nansen%27s_Fram_expedition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nansen%27s_Fram_expedition

JohnJamesRambo 5y ago
What kind of food did they store and eat that was to last five years? And water? The wiki is light on these details in my skimming of it.
- budlightvirus 5y ago
  They mention building a shelter with walrus hides so I'd imagine they did a fair amount of hunting rather than trying to bring all their supplies with them from the outset. Shackleton's voyage used a similar approach.
  - fifilura 5y ago
    At this period in time, before Vitamin C was discovered, fresh meat, in particularly raw meat, was critical for survival. The canned food didn't contain vitamin C so scurvy was a constant problem. The competent explorers learned the habit of eating raw meat from the inuits. That said, the walrus hut was built by Nansen and Johansen after leaving the ship.
JamesSwift 5y ago
That wiki article was a super interesting read. I might find a book that goes more in depth.
- fifilura 5y ago
  Try Ronald Huntford's biographies. His books about Amundsen/Scott and Shackleton are also worthwhile. Such an amazing period. In summary, Shackleton and Nansen are admirable for courage an endurance. But Amundsen is far ahead of them all in competence, and that is what counts. And then you can also try "The worst journey in the world" by Ansley Cherry-Garrard. An expedition in darkness...

intricatedetail 5y ago

If explorers had shrooms, weed and some way to play music, I think they'd be good. Unfortunately there is still a "no fun" camp at the head of decision making.

fleetingmoments 5y ago
Freely available hallucinogens at the pole would make things 1000x worse.
- dennisnedry 5y ago
  Magic mushrooms are now being used to treat anxiety. Just something to consider when dealing with a situation that creates massive amounts of anxiety (being stuck in ice with no way out).
  - Applejinx 5y ago
    I am really not sure I'd want to be stuck in ice, ON ACID, with no way out :) …though I think your point is, that while you're stuck in ice with no way out, all the mental stability structures you build to connect yourself to reality are bad and harmful. And being on drugs and disrupting your reality, breaking down your preconceptions etc. would be more along the lines of continually breaking down the BAD mental structures you're inevitably building, due to correct appraisal of your situation. Still doesn't sound awesome though :)

uwagar 5y ago

severe corona lockdown risks bringing antartical environment to our neighborhoods. these articles (the one about kuru disease due to misbehaving protein think spike protein) seem to covertly suggest that possibility.

hdnl 5y ago

A confluence of factors are present in the described episodes of people 'losing their minds'. The highlighted two were the harsh physical environment and relative social isolation/vacuum. The harsh physical environment is, to my understanding, intractable. However, the social environment is less so. How are those headed to Antarctica trained with respect to mental health and 'working with a team' (e.g. communication) skills?

chaganated 5y ago

"We are all in Danger, it is Evil Itself"

fit2rule 5y ago

This makes me wonder what sort of steps will be taken to avert this kind of catastrophe when we finally get to Mars. In fact there are so many pyscho-/social aspects of the journey to Mars, and eventually landing, that I really wonder what steps are in place to ensure things stay on the rails. I can imagine a scenario where we finally get to Mars, but are defeated by our own minds. I truly hope someone is working on this issue before we get there ..

JoeAltmaier 5y ago

You can sustain a lot, when you know you will have respite. I've got a weekend off in April, I can make it until then! As folks remark something like a Mars mission may be a life sentence. It will be a different ballgame. It almost seems inevitable that folks will break. A common occurrence on the early pioneer prairies in America was mental health problems. My Dad was 3rd generation in Iowa, and he knew several older folks who'd lost the plot. They talked exclusively of their past; they didn't follow conversations; they only functioned within their small world of the farmstead. They were largely treated normally as far as could be managed. But they had a relatively congenial ecosystem to live within. Won't be that way on a Mars colony.

Consultant32452 5y ago
Basically every person they send to Mars needs to be mildly autistic. Highly regimented, low social needs, etc.
- adonovan 5y ago
  I suspect one would need bigger problems than autism to willingly give up, forever, the opportunity to experience life's most basic pleasures: walking, wind, water, grass, trees, flowers, sunlight, food, and other people.
  - JoeAltmaier 5y ago
    Yet there are a generation of people today that are essentially hermits in their apartments, who do that.
    - wolverine876 5y ago
      Do you mean during the pandemic? Otherwise, how big is this population?
      - JoeAltmaier 5y ago

throwkeep 5y ago

A modern version of this is people losing their minds on Twitter. Consumed by anger, paranoia, hysteria, all day, every day.

georgeecollins 5y ago
And a futuristic version will be Mars. Mars twitter will be the mouth of madness.

wiradikusuma 5y ago

I wonder if digital entertainment (e.g. thousands of 1080p movies in a 10TB HDD) could make being there "bearable". You don't have to enjoy it alone, you have shipmates. Maybe even internet (satellite connection)?

nwsm 5y ago
Some relevant excerpts: > Still today in Antarctic research stations, as modern amenities dull the ferocity of the environment and digital communications keep year-round personnel in touch with the outside world, madness lurks in the corridors. > A study of 313 men and women conducted at McMurdo Station in the 1990s revealed that 5.2 percent of those surveyed suffered from a psychiatric disorder. While this rate is slightly lower than among the general population of the United States, it should be noted that all station personnel are rigorously screened for such disorders before arriving. The Antarctic had made them lose their bearings.
freshair 5y ago
Maybe this could work for some. Personally, if I watch more than a few movies in a week I begin to feel like I'm losing my mind. I think variety is key, and not just having a variety of movies. Mix in some books and video games (particularly ones that foster creativity) and I think the odds of success will be much higher.

igammarays 5y ago

It doesn't have to be Antartica, although that's a bit of an extreme example. Plenty of people I know have "lost it", albeit to a less extreme degree, after just a few years of culture shock, after moving to a different country. Life is hard, and few people have what it takes to survive without the social safety net of everything that is familiar to them.

3pt14159 5y ago

I found the Wikipedia article for the first mentioned story quite interesting as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_Antarctic_Expedition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_Antarctic_Expedition

vocatus_gate 5y ago

I wintered over in Antarctica in 2016. Drinking definitely increased during the dark months.

101001001001 5y ago

People who had poor mental health outcomes during COVID were mostly extroverted. Introverts actually did better, including myself. Losing your mind comes from the machinery of the brain failing, which is almost always caused by stress in these kinds of scenarios. Emotional stress is the most acute kind of stress. Isolation and unrelenting physical danger are very emotionally stressful. It doesn’t intrinsically create psychosis, it creates stress which might cause psychosis. The human race is filled with stories just as harrowing as a well funded and planned Mars colonization where people made it through. If you disagree you simply haven’t read your history. Life 2000 years ago was unimaginably cruel, let alone one million years ago. Just because people in 2020 mash together stress, depression, psychosis and other things doesn’t mean anything. These mental illnesses have biochemical underpinnings and they aren’t intrinsic aspects of the human experience or doing certain things, like going to Mars. People fetishize the impossibility of things. They also fetishize doom. Global warming has become political not only because of the people who deny it but also because of the people who fetishize the doom and gloom of it. You can recognize these people by talking to them about potential solutions or how to fix it. Invariably they don’t want to think about solutions, think it’s impossible to escape the end of the world and tend to want to turn to some kind of spiritual/naturalistic repentance even though it wouldn’t fix anything when you run the numbers. Same thing with Mars. People fetishize the impossibility of it. You can’t possibly go there without going insane. The radiation will be impossible to deal with. The gravity can’t possibly sustain human life. It’s all hyperbole. There’s valid counterpoints to all of it. But it goes in one ear... and out the other.

teh_infallible 5y ago

The symptoms remind me a bit of nitrogen narcosis, which affects scuba divers at deep depths. I have heard it makes people paranoid. One dive master told me about a diver who tore out her regulator and swam frantically towards him, signaling she was out of air. She had a nearly full tank.

Gauge_Irrahphe 5y ago

Obviously it's a cubit error from a cosmic ray from which their brain cannot recover. /jk