5 ms·

How to Solve the Homeless Problem, Once and for All

19 points by throwkeep 5y ago

forgotmypw17 5y ago
I think if the author has not slept on the street for at least a night or two, they have no business writing about "the homeless problem".
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- ddingus 5y ago
  Well said! Many of us have been there. It's obvious when someone really hasn't, yet feels they can contribute authoritative answers. For the naysayer passers by: My spouse and I have direct, and on her part, professional experience. Working with people right now. I do believe the author means well. It's not about that. To start, it would be good to have a rational discussion about how people end up homeless. Then there is what it really takes for many to get out. It's a lot more than you think. Was, and to some degree, still is more than I think, just to be fair. Had the title been, "How to fix the homeless problem" I may well have not commented myself, but "Once and for All?"
  - spfzero 5y ago
    OK I’ll bite. What are the answers, oh thou, who has slept on the street?
- jdkee 5y ago
  Argue against the poster’s substantive points then. Do not make an ad-hominem attack.
  - redis_mlc 5y ago
    It's not an ad hominem attack if the author has no experience from which to draw upon. Comparing California with national stats is just the start of the problems with the article. Are you going to denounce my post as a godwin next?
- pablooliva 5y ago
  Is that not like saying any expert who lacks first hand experience is barred from proposing any solutions, i.e. an infectious diseases expert not being able to offer policies to combat Corona because he/she has not been infected?
  - ddingus 5y ago
    Totally fair!! It's like saying they aren't an expert, and that's apparent from the content of the piece we are all reading. Eg: Why did people take drugs? Why are people not working? Nobody is barred from solutions. I do not think very much of this one proposed. It's very much a what and how proposal, and it almost completely ignores WHY. In fact, the single most important thing we can do is educate people on this matter. It's complicated, and I made an edit above to clarify this fact. And to be perfectly fair, many of our leaders have no damn clue.
learningmore 5y ago
Interesting article. Several significant, long-term studies are brought up. Calif. spends much more per homeless person that most other countries, but has dramatically worse results. Homelessness has risen 30% in calif, while other states have reduced their homeless populations. Interesting, striking differences.
- anovikov 5y ago
  I think it's kinda obvious: there are more homeless because this spending makes it easier to be a homeless. Fighting homelessness is easy: make it strictly illegal, a felony punished (for repeat offenders) with a real prison term. It will deter many delinquents from trying, they will try to stick with some sort of employment and housing.
  - bsanr2 5y ago
    I feel like this is a joke, but can't tell and therefore seek further explanation.
  - mrnotcrazy 5y ago
    Sounds like we will just be moving them from the streets to prison?(which is not cheap?) There is a portion of homeless who may be able to do better but mental health or other complications prevent others from pulling themselves up by their bootstraps.
  - Supermancho 5y ago
    > Fighting homelessness is easy: make it strictly illegal Note: I have been homeless. I prefer a little more practical solution, which is unpopular with many people...as almost any solution will be. If a person is arrested for breaking a statute (municipalities usually have ordinances against camping in areas), without a residence in the county, move them to a staging area for identification and program entry (assign a sponsor). If they repeat offend without having participated in a program via the sponsor (or have violated out), move them to a minimal camp in an unincorporated part of the state. Filtering those who want to contribute versus those who are opting out, benefits those who try versus those who are not going to recover. I feel for the homeless people with master's degrees from various disciplines (see Youtube), but urban areas breed urban problems like illicit drug distribution, disease, sexual violations, open fires, burglary, etc. We know this historically. Why we continue to allow people to concentrate where they have the most opportunity to predate on the public and each other while simultaneously being enabled in self-destructive behavior is beyond me.
DoreenMichele 5y ago
This article makes the same tired argument that homeless people are all junkies and crazies which gets used to blame the people on the street. It does so in spite of opening with this: California saw its homeless population rise by 31 percent even as the number of homeless declined 18 percent in the rest of the United States between 2010 and 2020. We know that homeless people travel, that some organizations have a policy of solving their local homeless problem by passing out bus tickets and that some states have actively sought to dump their homeless on California. California has a lot of problems, like terrible housing policies, that contribute to the problem. But I believe California has become the dumping ground for America's homeless and it's problematic to act like California's numbers have gone up because California is behaving badly rather than acknowledge that California's numbers have gone up precisely because homelessness is down elsewhere: California is where some of those people ended up. And California has unsheltered homeless because the temperate, dry weather in large parts of the state make it tolerable to sleep outside most of the time and it's a better option than the shelter system for a long list of reasons, from the concentration of poverty to exposure to disease to the prison-like conditions. I think this article is garbage. It contradicts everything I understand about the topic. I spent nearly six years homeless. I've had a college class on the topic. I still write about it. I think I'm more informed than average about such things.
- coolspot 5y ago
  Did you write up anywhere on how you ended being homeless for 6 years?
  - DoreenMichele 5y ago
    There is probably no succinct single article summing it up, but you might be interested in these two of my many blogs: https://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com/ https://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com/ https://streetlifesolutions.blogspot.com/ https://streetlifesolutions.blogspot.com/ You might also be interested in this research piece written about me by a college student who interviewed me: http://alexandralindelof.com/story-package/ http://alexandralindelof.com/story-package/
alex_young 5y ago
1.5 million public school students experienced homelessness in the most recent year data is available for [0]. Should we also demand that they seek treatment before housing them? [0] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/homeless-population-there-are-more-homeless-students-in-the-u-s-than-people-living-in-dallas-2020-02-04/#app https://www.cbsnews.com/news/homeless-population-there-are-m...
- neartheplain 5y ago
  To reply on the article's terms: if a minor is homeless due to heroin addiction or psychiatric illness, then yes, the state should mandate substance abuse treatment or psychiatric care.
  - michaelmrose 5y ago
    Do you make any kind of help contingent on using their vulnerability and need to extort consent to use drug testing and quacks to see if they need help. Given that psychiatric problems are subjective how do you keep shrinks from writing a prescription for a bigger paycheck when evaluating minors you are coercing.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
paxys 5y ago
Been a while since we had one of these "I could solve the homeless problem in a day if they only let me" articles from someone with zero knowledge or experience in the area. From what I can see the author is a self described "climate scientist" (with no academic credentials) who is very popular in right wing circles. You can probably guess what his views on the issue are - https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/the-stories-michael-shellenberger-tells/ https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/the-stories-michael-shel.... Substack is very quickly becoming the new Medium.
hootbootscoot 5y ago
This is sick. Make the homeless compete for shelters by good-behavior, and use the full weight of the legal stick to force them into such a corner. I see a commentator below putting the onus of justifying said humanity, ne humane discourse, upon the backs of those who object to such obviously wanton cruelty. Au contraire, mon frere. The fact that human beings are the subject of this article appears lost in the mix. Crimes against humanity should not pose as rationalist technocratism. Solve the "xyx problem" when xyz is a large swath of humanity resigned to grist for a cruel mill. At least pretend to care about your fellow humans.
bradgranath 5y ago
Jesus Christ. 113,000 people are too poor to afford a roof, and your solution is a private secret police force to round people up? WTF

19 points by throwkeep 5y ago

I think if the author has not slept on the street for at least a night or two, they have no business writing about "the homeless problem".

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ddingus 5y ago
Well said! Many of us have been there. It's obvious when someone really hasn't, yet feels they can contribute authoritative answers. For the naysayer passers by: My spouse and I have direct, and on her part, professional experience. Working with people right now. I do believe the author means well. It's not about that. To start, it would be good to have a rational discussion about how people end up homeless. Then there is what it really takes for many to get out. It's a lot more than you think. Was, and to some degree, still is more than I think, just to be fair. Had the title been, "How to fix the homeless problem" I may well have not commented myself, but "Once and for All?"
- spfzero 5y ago
  OK I’ll bite. What are the answers, oh thou, who has slept on the street?
jdkee 5y ago
Argue against the poster’s substantive points then. Do not make an ad-hominem attack.
- redis_mlc 5y ago
  It's not an ad hominem attack if the author has no experience from which to draw upon. Comparing California with national stats is just the start of the problems with the article. Are you going to denounce my post as a godwin next?
pablooliva 5y ago
Is that not like saying any expert who lacks first hand experience is barred from proposing any solutions, i.e. an infectious diseases expert not being able to offer policies to combat Corona because he/she has not been infected?
- ddingus 5y ago
  Totally fair!! It's like saying they aren't an expert, and that's apparent from the content of the piece we are all reading. Eg: Why did people take drugs? Why are people not working? Nobody is barred from solutions. I do not think very much of this one proposed. It's very much a what and how proposal, and it almost completely ignores WHY. In fact, the single most important thing we can do is educate people on this matter. It's complicated, and I made an edit above to clarify this fact. And to be perfectly fair, many of our leaders have no damn clue.

learningmore 5y ago

Interesting article. Several significant, long-term studies are brought up. Calif. spends much more per homeless person that most other countries, but has dramatically worse results. Homelessness has risen 30% in calif, while other states have reduced their homeless populations. Interesting, striking differences.

anovikov 5y ago
I think it's kinda obvious: there are more homeless because this spending makes it easier to be a homeless. Fighting homelessness is easy: make it strictly illegal, a felony punished (for repeat offenders) with a real prison term. It will deter many delinquents from trying, they will try to stick with some sort of employment and housing.
- bsanr2 5y ago
  I feel like this is a joke, but can't tell and therefore seek further explanation.
- mrnotcrazy 5y ago
  Sounds like we will just be moving them from the streets to prison?(which is not cheap?) There is a portion of homeless who may be able to do better but mental health or other complications prevent others from pulling themselves up by their bootstraps.
- Supermancho 5y ago
  > Fighting homelessness is easy: make it strictly illegal Note: I have been homeless. I prefer a little more practical solution, which is unpopular with many people...as almost any solution will be. If a person is arrested for breaking a statute (municipalities usually have ordinances against camping in areas), without a residence in the county, move them to a staging area for identification and program entry (assign a sponsor). If they repeat offend without having participated in a program via the sponsor (or have violated out), move them to a minimal camp in an unincorporated part of the state. Filtering those who want to contribute versus those who are opting out, benefits those who try versus those who are not going to recover. I feel for the homeless people with master's degrees from various disciplines (see Youtube), but urban areas breed urban problems like illicit drug distribution, disease, sexual violations, open fires, burglary, etc. We know this historically. Why we continue to allow people to concentrate where they have the most opportunity to predate on the public and each other while simultaneously being enabled in self-destructive behavior is beyond me.

DoreenMichele 5y ago

This article makes the same tired argument that homeless people are all junkies and crazies which gets used to blame the people on the street. It does so in spite of opening with this: California saw its homeless population rise by 31 percent even as the number of homeless declined 18 percent in the rest of the United States between 2010 and 2020. We know that homeless people travel, that some organizations have a policy of solving their local homeless problem by passing out bus tickets and that some states have actively sought to dump their homeless on California. California has a lot of problems, like terrible housing policies, that contribute to the problem. But I believe California has become the dumping ground for America's homeless and it's problematic to act like California's numbers have gone up because California is behaving badly rather than acknowledge that California's numbers have gone up precisely because homelessness is down elsewhere: California is where some of those people ended up. And California has unsheltered homeless because the temperate, dry weather in large parts of the state make it tolerable to sleep outside most of the time and it's a better option than the shelter system for a long list of reasons, from the concentration of poverty to exposure to disease to the prison-like conditions. I think this article is garbage. It contradicts everything I understand about the topic. I spent nearly six years homeless. I've had a college class on the topic. I still write about it. I think I'm more informed than average about such things.

coolspot 5y ago
Did you write up anywhere on how you ended being homeless for 6 years?
- DoreenMichele 5y ago
  There is probably no succinct single article summing it up, but you might be interested in these two of my many blogs: https://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com/ https://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com/ https://streetlifesolutions.blogspot.com/ https://streetlifesolutions.blogspot.com/ You might also be interested in this research piece written about me by a college student who interviewed me: http://alexandralindelof.com/story-package/ http://alexandralindelof.com/story-package/

alex_young 5y ago

1.5 million public school students experienced homelessness in the most recent year data is available for [0]. Should we also demand that they seek treatment before housing them? [0] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/homeless-population-there-are-more-homeless-students-in-the-u-s-than-people-living-in-dallas-2020-02-04/#app https://www.cbsnews.com/news/homeless-population-there-are-m...

neartheplain 5y ago
To reply on the article's terms: if a minor is homeless due to heroin addiction or psychiatric illness, then yes, the state should mandate substance abuse treatment or psychiatric care.
- michaelmrose 5y ago
  Do you make any kind of help contingent on using their vulnerability and need to extort consent to use drug testing and quacks to see if they need help. Given that psychiatric problems are subjective how do you keep shrinks from writing a prescription for a bigger paycheck when evaluating minors you are coercing.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

paxys 5y ago

Been a while since we had one of these "I could solve the homeless problem in a day if they only let me" articles from someone with zero knowledge or experience in the area. From what I can see the author is a self described "climate scientist" (with no academic credentials) who is very popular in right wing circles. You can probably guess what his views on the issue are - https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/the-stories-michael-shellenberger-tells/ https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/the-stories-michael-shel.... Substack is very quickly becoming the new Medium.

hootbootscoot 5y ago

This is sick. Make the homeless compete for shelters by good-behavior, and use the full weight of the legal stick to force them into such a corner. I see a commentator below putting the onus of justifying said humanity, ne humane discourse, upon the backs of those who object to such obviously wanton cruelty. Au contraire, mon frere. The fact that human beings are the subject of this article appears lost in the mix. Crimes against humanity should not pose as rationalist technocratism. Solve the "xyx problem" when xyz is a large swath of humanity resigned to grist for a cruel mill. At least pretend to care about your fellow humans.

bradgranath 5y ago

Jesus Christ. 113,000 people are too poor to afford a roof, and your solution is a private secret police force to round people up? WTF