5 ms·

What is your expectation what a state actor like the EU should do to protect it's citizens infrastructure? Rely on a third party like the US which has secret c

by oaiey 5y ago

What is your expectation what a state actor like the EU should do to protect it's citizens infrastructure? Rely on a third party like the US which has secret courts and gives a shit about EU citizen privacy, their property or their lifes? Or give it in the hands of the industry? Which only has one motive: making money. Or leave it unregulated with no safety for no one? DNS is about trust. We need trust into this thing. And honestly: i would not trust DNS offered in China and most likely also not the US, or 99% of the carriers

sam_lowry_ 5y ago
Second that. The article lacks the good parts. It's clear that the rapporteur has not figured it out yet how to deal with the root DNS servers, but there is a broad consensus over the strategic autonomy goal [1]. One way or another, EU will force its way. Should it do it by e.g. empowering DIGIT to run root DNS servers? They will for sure tender it off to a murky consortium, but at least there will be a positive political move. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_autonomy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_autonomy
- oaiey 5y ago
  I also think that the article is focused too much about the auditing and regulations instead of suggesting a better model.
  - EricE 5y ago
    I love the assumption that there is "a better model." This reeks of the quintessential "let's solve a problem that doesn't exist." Here's an even better and more logical idea - for those who have concerns about the current DNS root server arrangements, what specifically are they? And what would you propose as solutions to their perceived deficiencies? Bonus points if you can raise actual technical arguments and not just feelings.
    - oaiey 5y ago
      Fair point. I don't have a different idea in the current geopolitical situation.
  - oefrha 5y ago
    The article very clearly suggests the current model.
- darkarmani 5y ago
  Can't the EU run its own DNS infrastructure? Why force its way into something it doesn't even understand?
  - sam_lowry_ 5y ago
    There was an effort to run EU-based root DNS servers. ORSN, IIRC. Maybe we have so many root servers in EU due to ORSN showing its teeth.
martimarkov 5y ago
You are free to choose your DNS provider. On the other hand if we take your view and apply it in reverse: why should an American or Chinese person trust the EU to regulate the internet? DNS roots have worked flawlessly. The EU can just create EU roots and be in control of them and regulate those. Nobody is opposed to that. You can even enforce vendors to only include EU roots when selling devices in the EU (I’m against this personally) or to ISPs (I’m more okay with this). But as a person who loves the EU I’m very much opposed to enforcing EU values and views to 3rd parties.
- oaiey 5y ago
  No normal users chooses a DNS server. Everyone should regulate and audit them. How we do with medical devices, and other stuff. The internet is no unicorn with special treatment. The last paragraph is right until I think about my EU-WhatsApp trying to make connections in Singapore. They try to protect me as a citizen.
  - EricE 5y ago
    What value would regulation bring to a system that is currently working, has worked flawlessly for over 40 years and shows no need of imminent "improvement" from a law like this. Exactly what problem would this law saw? So far all I am seeing are vaugue assurances and warm feelings but zero substance of how it would improve anything. Indeed, if history is our guide any change is far more likely to hurt rather than help. Therefore it is incumbent on those seeking the change to defend it - how exactly will this law "improve" things. Please be specific and factual and leave feelings to the poets and philosophers.
    - oaiey 5y ago
      So the argument is: medical devices yes, internet which is used for everything: no. Not every jurisdiction in the world is based on extreme fines (like the US) but many are build on strict regulations (like most European countries). Personally, i cannot speak about the concrete law and nis 2 thingy.
  - 5y ago

by oaiey 5y ago

sam_lowry_ 5y ago

Second that. The article lacks the good parts. It's clear that the rapporteur has not figured it out yet how to deal with the root DNS servers, but there is a broad consensus over the strategic autonomy goal [1]. One way or another, EU will force its way. Should it do it by e.g. empowering DIGIT to run root DNS servers? They will for sure tender it off to a murky consortium, but at least there will be a positive political move. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_autonomy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_autonomy

oaiey 5y ago
I also think that the article is focused too much about the auditing and regulations instead of suggesting a better model.
- EricE 5y ago
  I love the assumption that there is "a better model." This reeks of the quintessential "let's solve a problem that doesn't exist." Here's an even better and more logical idea - for those who have concerns about the current DNS root server arrangements, what specifically are they? And what would you propose as solutions to their perceived deficiencies? Bonus points if you can raise actual technical arguments and not just feelings.
  - oaiey 5y ago
    Fair point. I don't have a different idea in the current geopolitical situation.
- oefrha 5y ago
  The article very clearly suggests the current model.
darkarmani 5y ago
Can't the EU run its own DNS infrastructure? Why force its way into something it doesn't even understand?
- sam_lowry_ 5y ago
  There was an effort to run EU-based root DNS servers. ORSN, IIRC. Maybe we have so many root servers in EU due to ORSN showing its teeth.

martimarkov 5y ago

You are free to choose your DNS provider. On the other hand if we take your view and apply it in reverse: why should an American or Chinese person trust the EU to regulate the internet? DNS roots have worked flawlessly. The EU can just create EU roots and be in control of them and regulate those. Nobody is opposed to that. You can even enforce vendors to only include EU roots when selling devices in the EU (I’m against this personally) or to ISPs (I’m more okay with this). But as a person who loves the EU I’m very much opposed to enforcing EU values and views to 3rd parties.

oaiey 5y ago
No normal users chooses a DNS server. Everyone should regulate and audit them. How we do with medical devices, and other stuff. The internet is no unicorn with special treatment. The last paragraph is right until I think about my EU-WhatsApp trying to make connections in Singapore. They try to protect me as a citizen.
- EricE 5y ago
  What value would regulation bring to a system that is currently working, has worked flawlessly for over 40 years and shows no need of imminent "improvement" from a law like this. Exactly what problem would this law saw? So far all I am seeing are vaugue assurances and warm feelings but zero substance of how it would improve anything. Indeed, if history is our guide any change is far more likely to hurt rather than help. Therefore it is incumbent on those seeking the change to defend it - how exactly will this law "improve" things. Please be specific and factual and leave feelings to the poets and philosophers.
  - oaiey 5y ago
    So the argument is: medical devices yes, internet which is used for everything: no. Not every jurisdiction in the world is based on extreme fines (like the US) but many are build on strict regulations (like most European countries). Personally, i cannot speak about the concrete law and nis 2 thingy.
- 5y ago