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Articles like this answer the question, "what if 1920s eugenicists got hold of 1980s magazine relationship tests?" The scary thing is a lot of commercial "peop
by mathrando 5y ago
Articles like this answer the question, "what if 1920s eugenicists got hold of 1980s magazine relationship tests?"
The scary thing is a lot of commercial "people analytics" systems marketed to HR departments, lenders, and government agencies are little more than dressed up relationship tests from 1980s magazines.
https://www.cs.princeton.edu/~arvindn/talks/MIT-STS-AI-snakeoil.pdf https://www.cs.princeton.edu/~arvindn/talks/MIT-STS-AI-snake...
- ghaff 5y agoOr Myers–Briggs, which is a lot older. The main useful thing about this sort of thing, including the more modern Tilt 365 for example, is that it can be a useful exercise in helping people understand that the way they think about and approach the world differs from how others do. Years ago, I remember a book (Tog on Interface) that had a chapter which discussed how Apple engineers tested on MBTI versus the general population. He went to discuss implications for how it was easier for engineers to have mental models for how systems operated than users. Was this a correct explanation based on MBTI? Who knows. But it was a useful reminder in this case that your users may not be like you.
- vmception 5y agoMyers Briggs is astrology for people that scoff at astrology I will code switch between star signs and personality acronyms to get in your pants and assign zero weight to either
- Icathian 5y ago"I will lie to manipulate you into fucking me, and also I think I'm smarter than everyone". You charmer, you.
- vmception 5y agoYou decided to read that I dont lie about my astrology signs or myer briggs result I judge which one will likely help create an intimate consensual scenario and judge when to avoid criticizing either school of thought as disagreement is usually counterproductive to a consensual reproductive scenario Pick your battles wisely Out of even more adaptive curiosity, how do you read that as lying?
- hinoki 5y agoI think it just means you are an Agreeable person and GP is more Conscientious ;)
- vmception 5y agoBecoming more so agreeable, I wish people wouldnt rally behind reductive character philosophies like Myers Briggs or sun signs
- Aeolun 5y agoI dunno. “I didn’t say the things I thought you wouldn’t like so that we could have sex” somehow strikes me as disingenuous. Even though that’s just being considerate by a different name. I guess it comes from the goal you are trying to achieve.
- vmception 5y agoI don't share all values with people I have as companions and dont screen for that either, its an adaptation to never bring it up as well But I’ll probably be knowledgeable about the value system We’re on to love languages now too right
- merth 5y agoare you ENTP?
- vmception 5y ago:) unfalsifiable to breakdown a belief system as only some relatable combination within that system would behave this way right
- Moodles 5y agoI get the exact same response when I try to debunk horoscopes to someone who believes that’s just classic Virgo behaviour haha. Controversial, but also true, is that I get the same response trying to debunk diversity hiring etc. because I happen to be a white, straight male. I am also practically blind in one eye and grew up poor, but I refuse to play the victimhood game or even agree to that frame to win an argument. Also I don’t want to get into the pros and cons of that topic in this thread as that’ll inevitably be a train wreck as always, but I just want to point out how frustrating it is to “lose” an argument because of who you are, not what you actually say. Also, for the diversity people, it’s super insulting to essentially suggest “you’re only disagreeing to protect your own race”. I honestly think the appropriate response is to tell them to fuck off after they bring up your race, gender, sexuality, etc. in an argument.
- pmiller2 5y agoTechnical analysis of securities is for people who scoff at both. I've often referred to it as "numerology for smart people."
- vmception 5y agoooooh, them's fighting words! I agree though and simply say its not my trading strategy.
- pmiller2 5y agoYeah, I half expected a couple downvotes on that one, lol. :P But, seriously, IMO, to the extent that technical analysis "works," it's probably just exploiting short term momentum. Momentum strategies have been shown to generate alpha. Other than that, you'd probably be just as well off reading tea leaves and goat entrails to guide your trading strategy.
- spiralx 5y agoAs someone who implemented over 70 different indicators and close to 20 tools for drawing Gann fans, Fibonacci retracements and so on, I've heard a similar thing about technical analysis and astrology and very much concur :)
- ImprovedSilence 5y agoI def found myres Briggs to be helpful, for your exact reasons. I know it gets a lot of hate here in HN, but as someone who was introduced to it in my first job right out of school, It made me more self aware of how I naturally process information and get energized, and how that can differ from others, and that bit of knowledge has absolutely helped me at times in my career. To me it was never sold as a “this is the only mold you fit in and it will define your role”, it was more to understand ways one might naturally process information, vs. ways one might need to actively work to process information differently.
- hansvm 5y agoIf you know the tests are snake oil, is it ethical to give the "right" answers to get a job?
- bryanrasmussen 5y agoI would say yes, but do you want the job at the place that is giving you snake oil?
- greesil 5y agoMaybe they pay really well
- satellite2 5y agoOr they control entire sectors of the economy. https://www.pgcareers.com/assessment-overviews https://www.pgcareers.com/assessment-overviews
- greesil 5y agoUsually there's some correlation here
- vkou 5y agoI want a job at a place where I can noodle around with <my hipster technology of choice> all day, but I'll settle for one that asks me to actually ship stuff, and pays the bills. Whether or not their HR department is ran by a licensed phrenologist is a distant second concern.
- bryanrasmussen 5y agomaybe there's a Maslow's hierarchy of hiring needs to be defined somewhere, so after money, benefits comes work/life balance and then at the top of the pyramid comes working on things I like, and finally respecting the company I work for?
- 5y ago
- moksly 5y agoUnless a HR department is doing something wrong, the test results aren’t the point of the tests. It’s the conversation following, where possible employees are confronted with their answers and results that’s the point. It’s just easier to get there when you use a disguised relationship tests from 1980ies magazines. Not only does it touch on relevant areas, most people that you’d use the HR resources on secretly love taking those things and then talking about themselves. As with most things, it can obviously go wrong or get used in the wrong situations. HR is a department that’s there to help managers, but they really shouldn’t waste their resources testing people for a position as a software developer. If your company is doing that, something went wrong. Maybe HR found a way to keep themselves busy, or you’re not bolstering a management culture or people who can make hiring related decisions without consulting HR.
- feanaro 5y agoWhy wouldn't HR be testing software engineering candidates?
- xwolfi 5y agoWell because it's hard for them to come up with question and judge responses. But I guess this means HR shouldnt skill-test anyone. We d all agree they shouldn't test a racecar driver, a CEO, a mathematician. But the guy saying that probably doesnt work: HR never test anyone. They handle the process. He may be confusing it with wrong job posting that people attribute to HR (like N years xp in N-5 years old tech) which are usually the product of idiotic managers, not HR who doesnt give a fig what your team needs as long as you express it to them.
- moksly 5y ago> HR never test anyone. They handle the proces. Maybe we have different ways of defining things, or maybe my English isn’t good enough to convey the meaning. But isn’t HR handling the process of personality testing, HR testing people? When we utilise personality testing, a HR consultant actually tests the candidates. It’s their test, they spend millions developing it and you have to be certified to perform it.