33 ms·

Warhammer 40k lore is an exercise in making Space Catholic Nazis look good by constructing a world where everyone else is (arguably) even worse than they are. O

Warhammer 40k lore is an exercise in making Space Catholic Nazis look good by constructing a world where everyone else is (arguably) even worse than they are. One starts to wonder what the point is of this exercise. Do we need a fantasy universe where we can roleplay as Space Nazis and feel justified about it?

qq4 5y ago
Ha, I thought I was the only one. It felt like an extreme accusation at first, but Space Marines are really so close to Nazis. The imperial eagle, preserving the superior geneseed and purging the universe of the unclean. I say this somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but it makes one wonder about their popularity.
- kinos 5y ago
  It used to be tongue in cheek, but then we got to see Poe's Law prove itself in real time. Every time I join a 40k community, 80% will be communists making fun of nazis. The other 20% will be mask-off nazis. Game Workshop's focus on trying to be marketable instead of comedy doesn't help this at all, as they start choosing sides to turn into the good guys for traditional storytelling and marketing purposes.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
AllegedAlec 5y ago
Oh please. The Imperium is evil in their own special way, just as everyone else in that universe. To believe that people who like them somehow feel the need to justify that rather than just enjoying a game for what it is, a game, is absolutely stupid, or at least extremely uncharitable. Why would playing the Space Nazies be any worse than the Space Communists, or the Space Bdsm Rapists, or the Space Super Spreaders, or the Space Insects That Only Like You For Your Biomass, or the Space Cockneys That Only Want To Fight, or the Space Zombies That Sort Of Kind Of Still Worship Undead Gods They Toppled?
- weregiraffe 5y ago
  >Oh please. The Imperium is evil in their own special way, just as everyone else in that universe. To believe that people who like them somehow feel the need to justify that rather than just enjoying a game for what it is, a game, is absolutely stupid, or at least extremely uncharitable. It is absolutely stupid, or at least extremely naive, to believe that anything is ever "just a game" or "just a book" or "just a movie". You can't build a wall through your own brain. >Why would playing the Space Nazies be any worse than the Space Communists, or the Space Bdsm Rapists, or the Space Super Spreaders, or the Space Insects That Only Like You For Your Biomass, or the Space Cockneys That Only Want To Fight, or the Space Zombies That Sort Of Kind Of Still Worship Undead Gods They Toppled? You are making my point for me here. In a world where the only choice is between Hitler and Cthulhu, I'd go with Hitler, but I real life I'd much rather prefer to not be making this choice at all. But Warhammer 40k is not real life, and so the question is who and why would want to role play in an imaginary world where you have to make that choice.
  - AllegedAlec 5y ago
    > Is is absolutely stupid, or at least extremely naive, to believe that anything is ever "just a game" or "just a book" or "just a movie". You can't build a wall through your own brain. LMAO. Ok then. I guess all of every fiction is now invalid. Not sure how to argue against this idea, because it's just blatantly untrue IME. > You are making my point for me here. In a world where the only choice is between Hitler and Cthulhu, I'd go with Hitler, but I real life I'd much rather prefer to not be making this choice at all. My point is that it doesn't matter which one you choose because you're fucked anyhow, and the way in which you're fucked doesn't really matter. Furthermore, it's not real life, so you don't have to make that choice. > But Warhammer 40k is not real life, and so the question is who and why would want to role play in an imaginary world where you have to make that choice. Because it's fun to roleplay. It's fun to paint small plastic mans with cool aesthetics. I can think something's cool without agreeing with it.
    - PicassoCTs 5y ago
      Fiction, enrages those engaging in religion, in fiction made real. Cause if tolkien could create LOTR, then the bible could be written by a nerd in the dessert, thousand years ago and all that remains of god is the Greatest Octalsided Dice. So no wonder fiction also enrages believers in societal fiction.
tvararu 5y ago
I thought that was the point. It's a demonstration that "the end justifies the means" leads to a universe where the "good guys" are also very Evil.
- weregiraffe 5y ago
  It could be the point, but clearly it is not getting across, as the Warhammer 40K community is full of people joyfully and thoughlessly embracing the "Burn the Heretic! Kill the Mutant! Purge the Unclean!" attitude.
  - AllegedAlec 5y ago
    Have you any proof that the tongue-in-cheek usage of in-universe phrases in any way leads to real life ideals?
    - UncleMeat 5y ago
      Adoption of “god emperor” for Trump is a notably example.
      - AllegedAlec 5y ago
        Ah, of course. Because people using that literally deify Trump, believing he's a 3.5 kiloyear old being that exists because of a human merging with the larvae of a deified sand worm.
        tibbydudeza 5y ago
        Wrong universe ... no sandworms :).
        disgruntledphd2 5y ago
        It looks like God Emperor of Dune came out in 1981, and given that's its GW, I assume someone involved had read it.
PicassoCTs 5y ago
Humanitys history was a brutish thing. And it seems to become one again. The last great crisis due to our exponential consumption nature is barely 80 years in the past. And baring some "miracle" class science breath throughs, its bound to return. Not saying the future will contain catholic-nazi-space-marines, but life might become brutal and short again, if there are no major breakthroughs in energy production. Engaging with that expected future brutishness is basically just fitness signalizing at this point.
timeslip1523 5y ago
Yes.
VoodooJuJu 5y ago
It's only a game. I don't know why you have to be mad.

qq4 5y ago

Ha, I thought I was the only one. It felt like an extreme accusation at first, but Space Marines are really so close to Nazis. The imperial eagle, preserving the superior geneseed and purging the universe of the unclean. I say this somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but it makes one wonder about their popularity.

kinos 5y ago
It used to be tongue in cheek, but then we got to see Poe's Law prove itself in real time. Every time I join a 40k community, 80% will be communists making fun of nazis. The other 20% will be mask-off nazis. Game Workshop's focus on trying to be marketable instead of comedy doesn't help this at all, as they start choosing sides to turn into the good guys for traditional storytelling and marketing purposes.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

AllegedAlec 5y ago

Oh please. The Imperium is evil in their own special way, just as everyone else in that universe. To believe that people who like them somehow feel the need to justify that rather than just enjoying a game for what it is, a game, is absolutely stupid, or at least extremely uncharitable. Why would playing the Space Nazies be any worse than the Space Communists, or the Space Bdsm Rapists, or the Space Super Spreaders, or the Space Insects That Only Like You For Your Biomass, or the Space Cockneys That Only Want To Fight, or the Space Zombies That Sort Of Kind Of Still Worship Undead Gods They Toppled?

weregiraffe 5y ago
>Oh please. The Imperium is evil in their own special way, just as everyone else in that universe. To believe that people who like them somehow feel the need to justify that rather than just enjoying a game for what it is, a game, is absolutely stupid, or at least extremely uncharitable. It is absolutely stupid, or at least extremely naive, to believe that anything is ever "just a game" or "just a book" or "just a movie". You can't build a wall through your own brain. >Why would playing the Space Nazies be any worse than the Space Communists, or the Space Bdsm Rapists, or the Space Super Spreaders, or the Space Insects That Only Like You For Your Biomass, or the Space Cockneys That Only Want To Fight, or the Space Zombies That Sort Of Kind Of Still Worship Undead Gods They Toppled? You are making my point for me here. In a world where the only choice is between Hitler and Cthulhu, I'd go with Hitler, but I real life I'd much rather prefer to not be making this choice at all. But Warhammer 40k is not real life, and so the question is who and why would want to role play in an imaginary world where you have to make that choice.
- AllegedAlec 5y ago
  > Is is absolutely stupid, or at least extremely naive, to believe that anything is ever "just a game" or "just a book" or "just a movie". You can't build a wall through your own brain. LMAO. Ok then. I guess all of every fiction is now invalid. Not sure how to argue against this idea, because it's just blatantly untrue IME. > You are making my point for me here. In a world where the only choice is between Hitler and Cthulhu, I'd go with Hitler, but I real life I'd much rather prefer to not be making this choice at all. My point is that it doesn't matter which one you choose because you're fucked anyhow, and the way in which you're fucked doesn't really matter. Furthermore, it's not real life, so you don't have to make that choice. > But Warhammer 40k is not real life, and so the question is who and why would want to role play in an imaginary world where you have to make that choice. Because it's fun to roleplay. It's fun to paint small plastic mans with cool aesthetics. I can think something's cool without agreeing with it.
  - PicassoCTs 5y ago
    Fiction, enrages those engaging in religion, in fiction made real. Cause if tolkien could create LOTR, then the bible could be written by a nerd in the dessert, thousand years ago and all that remains of god is the Greatest Octalsided Dice. So no wonder fiction also enrages believers in societal fiction.

tvararu 5y ago

I thought that was the point. It's a demonstration that "the end justifies the means" leads to a universe where the "good guys" are also very Evil.

weregiraffe 5y ago
It could be the point, but clearly it is not getting across, as the Warhammer 40K community is full of people joyfully and thoughlessly embracing the "Burn the Heretic! Kill the Mutant! Purge the Unclean!" attitude.
- AllegedAlec 5y ago
  Have you any proof that the tongue-in-cheek usage of in-universe phrases in any way leads to real life ideals?
  - UncleMeat 5y ago
    Adoption of “god emperor” for Trump is a notably example.
    - AllegedAlec 5y ago
      Ah, of course. Because people using that literally deify Trump, believing he's a 3.5 kiloyear old being that exists because of a human merging with the larvae of a deified sand worm.
      - tibbydudeza 5y ago
        Wrong universe ... no sandworms :).
        disgruntledphd2 5y ago
        It looks like God Emperor of Dune came out in 1981, and given that's its GW, I assume someone involved had read it.

PicassoCTs 5y ago

Humanitys history was a brutish thing. And it seems to become one again. The last great crisis due to our exponential consumption nature is barely 80 years in the past. And baring some "miracle" class science breath throughs, its bound to return. Not saying the future will contain catholic-nazi-space-marines, but life might become brutal and short again, if there are no major breakthroughs in energy production. Engaging with that expected future brutishness is basically just fitness signalizing at this point.

timeslip1523 5y ago

Yes.

VoodooJuJu 5y ago

It's only a game. I don't know why you have to be mad.