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In a world where the Fedcoin and e-euro are commonplace, having access to a decentralized money system not tied to the whims of politics would really matter to

by ViVr 5y ago

In a world where the Fedcoin and e-euro are commonplace, having access to a decentralized money system not tied to the whims of politics would really matter to me.

throwaway_kufu 5y ago
Not disagreeing but from Bitcoin, ethereum to DogeCoin they are all tied to the whims of non trust worthy persons. What if satoshi (unlikely but maybe the Fed itself) decides to liquidate its position of at least 1M Bitcoin. Ethereum foundation forks ethereum again to roll back transactions. Or Doge is uncontrollably minted (I don’t think it has a supply cap) or Elon decides to stop pumping it and decides to dump it. Everything else in between is just a bunch of discord/telegram armies pumping for their own interests. I just that’s great so long as you have the social credit to be on the inside.
- briefcomment 5y ago
  Fortunately, there’s a competitive crypto landscape. If none of these are actually decentralized, people will move to different currencies. Sure it will be turbulent, but we’ll probably get to something effectively decentralized eventually.
  - lottin 5y ago
    Why would people move to decentralized currencies? They are clearly moving from decentralized currencies to centralized exchanges.
    - briefcomment 5y ago
      There's definitely a market for a currency that avoids monetary policy. I think exchanges are an intermediary until P2P becomes the norm. That's why I'm bullish on BCH. They make P2P cheap and fast, while retaining most of the other signature aspects of BTC.
- bpodgursky 5y ago
  Is there any evidence that Musk actually owns Doge? I think he's said something like, it's fun as a meme but has too much central ownership for him to actually buy it. (wouldn't be shocked if he holds BTC though, since he got Tesla to buy in there)
  - throwaway_kufu 5y ago
    Whether or not he owns it, he is single handedly responsible for pumping it. Look at how he pumped it leading up to 4/20/21 (DogeDay) and then Twitter bots and scammers pumped it on Twitter getting “DogeDay” trending by multiple times and all the uneducated “investors”, if you can even call them that, bought in at the height thinking it would pop to $1 on 4/20/21 DogeDay with Elon’s continued support and instead it got dumped losing 50%. I wrote a post on here about the scam and said it would get bought back up on the dump and go to new all time highs as the uneducated investors that got scammed sold due to fear and not only did that happen it happened on Musk’s tweets of doing SNL and skits of the DogeFather. It honestly is like a predictable a moral neural net that’s single purpose profit on self created pump and dumps that it is capable of creating with unlimited liquidity. When I made my post it got the inevitable comments of “so what, it’s no different than X, and the way it’s always been”. Maybe but its always poor people targeted and ultimately hurt, it’s immoral and should be fucking criminal. Especially if he is pumping it just for shits and giggles.
    - nmfisher 5y ago
      While I would support regulation to stop stupid people from losing their money, I also have zero sympathy for anyone who loses their money on something like doge. Anyone who buys into a get-rich-quick scheme is a greedy fool, rich or poor.
      - throwaway_kufu 5y ago
        If you don’t believe in protections of uneducated investors that do lose money on Doge who exactly deserves protections. These are the very same people that would invest in a stock based on a tip, they’d never be able to perform due diligence, and that’s exactly why they would trust Elon, because that’s what uneducated investors that need protections do.
- ViVr 5y ago
  Your post seems to have an undertone of nervousness about the exchange rate of USD/cryptocurrency which is understandable in the middle of this bull market. In my opinion bitcoin is a revolution disguised as a get-rich-quick scheme. A whale liquidating lots of BTC sounds like a sweet bargain to me. BTC has a capped supply so they will run out of steam at some point. Due to game theory mechanics most network participants have an incentive to play by the rules and agree on rules that are as fair as possible. A hard fork has to be embraced by the majority of the users to be accepted. It's not just the miners or the whales who decide the rules. Of course there are countless of cryptocurrencies in use right now of which most are doomed to fail (maybe even all but one are doomed to fail).
  - throwaway_kufu 5y ago
    It’s not USD/BTC. That’s not longer the dynamic, if BTC is dumped it’s value falls in relation to all other coins/tokens/fiat. > A whale liquidating lots of BTC sounds like a sweet bargain to me. This is my point, it’s all me, me, me. What about the people that lose everything. And what about when it’s no longer a situation of “only invest what you can afford to lose” rather that’s the currency you get paid in and it’s regularly subjected to pump and dump schemes. That’s not a system of currency, much less a democratization of money. The entire defi system is currently set up for people to literally act as vultures and skim money from liquidity pools staked by others. NFTs are effectively money laundering schemes mixed with guerrilla marketing consisting of fake collectors, self purchases/self dealing, and more pump and dump scams. Imagine some senior citizen just trying to pay rent, buy groceries and pay for meds fiddling with the most user friendly centralized wallets much less managing their own private key and setting gas. They fact is there are whales and they are sophisticated persons/organizations (if not live neural nets/bots trading on their behalf with unlimited capital and liquidity seeking to scrap profits by manipulating the prices) they certainly aren’t the unbanked which is another bs marketing scheme of the technology.
    - seibelj 5y ago
      I don’t think you can predict the future of crypto based on the current state-of-the-art. Using bulletin boards in the 80s internet was a difficult experience only for the technically savvy. I would give it more time for non-technical people to start using crypto.
- netheril96 5y ago
  > Doge is uncontrollably minted (I don’t think it has a supply cap) It doesn't have a hard cap, but it does have a cap on inflation: 5 billion every year (current reserve is about 128 billion). The inflation rate is less than 5% and going down every year, much lower than most fiat currencies. (Not related to why it shoots so high these days).
  - tromp 5y ago
    All cryptocurrencies control their supply. That doesn't mean a supply cap. It can be as simple as emitting only 1 coin per second. That makes it very different from fiat, with its unpredictable supply.
- dragonelite 5y ago
  If the satoshi wallet holder would liquidate its position, he/she would do it like Micro Strategy and Tesla, no body really notice it over time. Given bitcoins open ledger and the wallet address its quiet easy to anticipate that traffic. You already have chain analyses tools.
  - null0pointer 5y ago
    The issue with that is the instant those coins move to a new address people will notice and probably panic.
tootie 5y ago
Crypto is tied to far more esoteric whims. Honestly the Fed has done an absolutely heroic job in the last 20 years and proven the USD to be almost indestructible. Crypto was founded for privacy, not for it's economic foundations which are still nonsense.
- seibelj 5y ago
  Printing tons of money is not “heroic”. There is nothing difficult about handing out trillions of dollars.
  - tootie 5y ago
    Handing out trillions of dollars at the right time to prevent a disaster is pretty heroic. Crypto is handed out to whoever has the most GPU power.
- ViVr 5y ago
  The dominant position of the USD on the world stage also might have something to do with the USA having deployed military to more than 150 countries at once and their involvement in regime changes all over the world. Meanwhile the FED heroically partakes in piling on debt for the futures generations.
  - imtringued 5y ago
    When your currency is the world reserve currency you are obligated to take on debt.
  - tootie 5y ago
    It's due to our centuries of issuing and paying off debt. No one is buying Treasuries because of our foreign policy.
- lottin 5y ago
  It's not so much that it's tied to esoteric whims but that it would destroy the economy if at some point were to become the primary currency, just like the gold standard did.

by ViVr 5y ago

In a world where the Fedcoin and e-euro are commonplace, having access to a decentralized money system not tied to the whims of politics would really matter to me.

throwaway_kufu 5y ago

Not disagreeing but from Bitcoin, ethereum to DogeCoin they are all tied to the whims of non trust worthy persons. What if satoshi (unlikely but maybe the Fed itself) decides to liquidate its position of at least 1M Bitcoin. Ethereum foundation forks ethereum again to roll back transactions. Or Doge is uncontrollably minted (I don’t think it has a supply cap) or Elon decides to stop pumping it and decides to dump it. Everything else in between is just a bunch of discord/telegram armies pumping for their own interests. I just that’s great so long as you have the social credit to be on the inside.

briefcomment 5y ago
Fortunately, there’s a competitive crypto landscape. If none of these are actually decentralized, people will move to different currencies. Sure it will be turbulent, but we’ll probably get to something effectively decentralized eventually.
- lottin 5y ago
  Why would people move to decentralized currencies? They are clearly moving from decentralized currencies to centralized exchanges.
  - briefcomment 5y ago
    There's definitely a market for a currency that avoids monetary policy. I think exchanges are an intermediary until P2P becomes the norm. That's why I'm bullish on BCH. They make P2P cheap and fast, while retaining most of the other signature aspects of BTC.
bpodgursky 5y ago
Is there any evidence that Musk actually owns Doge? I think he's said something like, it's fun as a meme but has too much central ownership for him to actually buy it. (wouldn't be shocked if he holds BTC though, since he got Tesla to buy in there)
- throwaway_kufu 5y ago
  Whether or not he owns it, he is single handedly responsible for pumping it. Look at how he pumped it leading up to 4/20/21 (DogeDay) and then Twitter bots and scammers pumped it on Twitter getting “DogeDay” trending by multiple times and all the uneducated “investors”, if you can even call them that, bought in at the height thinking it would pop to $1 on 4/20/21 DogeDay with Elon’s continued support and instead it got dumped losing 50%. I wrote a post on here about the scam and said it would get bought back up on the dump and go to new all time highs as the uneducated investors that got scammed sold due to fear and not only did that happen it happened on Musk’s tweets of doing SNL and skits of the DogeFather. It honestly is like a predictable a moral neural net that’s single purpose profit on self created pump and dumps that it is capable of creating with unlimited liquidity. When I made my post it got the inevitable comments of “so what, it’s no different than X, and the way it’s always been”. Maybe but its always poor people targeted and ultimately hurt, it’s immoral and should be fucking criminal. Especially if he is pumping it just for shits and giggles.
  - nmfisher 5y ago
    While I would support regulation to stop stupid people from losing their money, I also have zero sympathy for anyone who loses their money on something like doge. Anyone who buys into a get-rich-quick scheme is a greedy fool, rich or poor.
    - throwaway_kufu 5y ago
      If you don’t believe in protections of uneducated investors that do lose money on Doge who exactly deserves protections. These are the very same people that would invest in a stock based on a tip, they’d never be able to perform due diligence, and that’s exactly why they would trust Elon, because that’s what uneducated investors that need protections do.
ViVr 5y ago
Your post seems to have an undertone of nervousness about the exchange rate of USD/cryptocurrency which is understandable in the middle of this bull market. In my opinion bitcoin is a revolution disguised as a get-rich-quick scheme. A whale liquidating lots of BTC sounds like a sweet bargain to me. BTC has a capped supply so they will run out of steam at some point. Due to game theory mechanics most network participants have an incentive to play by the rules and agree on rules that are as fair as possible. A hard fork has to be embraced by the majority of the users to be accepted. It's not just the miners or the whales who decide the rules. Of course there are countless of cryptocurrencies in use right now of which most are doomed to fail (maybe even all but one are doomed to fail).
- throwaway_kufu 5y ago
  It’s not USD/BTC. That’s not longer the dynamic, if BTC is dumped it’s value falls in relation to all other coins/tokens/fiat. > A whale liquidating lots of BTC sounds like a sweet bargain to me. This is my point, it’s all me, me, me. What about the people that lose everything. And what about when it’s no longer a situation of “only invest what you can afford to lose” rather that’s the currency you get paid in and it’s regularly subjected to pump and dump schemes. That’s not a system of currency, much less a democratization of money. The entire defi system is currently set up for people to literally act as vultures and skim money from liquidity pools staked by others. NFTs are effectively money laundering schemes mixed with guerrilla marketing consisting of fake collectors, self purchases/self dealing, and more pump and dump scams. Imagine some senior citizen just trying to pay rent, buy groceries and pay for meds fiddling with the most user friendly centralized wallets much less managing their own private key and setting gas. They fact is there are whales and they are sophisticated persons/organizations (if not live neural nets/bots trading on their behalf with unlimited capital and liquidity seeking to scrap profits by manipulating the prices) they certainly aren’t the unbanked which is another bs marketing scheme of the technology.
  - seibelj 5y ago
    I don’t think you can predict the future of crypto based on the current state-of-the-art. Using bulletin boards in the 80s internet was a difficult experience only for the technically savvy. I would give it more time for non-technical people to start using crypto.
netheril96 5y ago
> Doge is uncontrollably minted (I don’t think it has a supply cap) It doesn't have a hard cap, but it does have a cap on inflation: 5 billion every year (current reserve is about 128 billion). The inflation rate is less than 5% and going down every year, much lower than most fiat currencies. (Not related to why it shoots so high these days).
- tromp 5y ago
  All cryptocurrencies control their supply. That doesn't mean a supply cap. It can be as simple as emitting only 1 coin per second. That makes it very different from fiat, with its unpredictable supply.
dragonelite 5y ago
If the satoshi wallet holder would liquidate its position, he/she would do it like Micro Strategy and Tesla, no body really notice it over time. Given bitcoins open ledger and the wallet address its quiet easy to anticipate that traffic. You already have chain analyses tools.
- null0pointer 5y ago
  The issue with that is the instant those coins move to a new address people will notice and probably panic.

tootie 5y ago

Crypto is tied to far more esoteric whims. Honestly the Fed has done an absolutely heroic job in the last 20 years and proven the USD to be almost indestructible. Crypto was founded for privacy, not for it's economic foundations which are still nonsense.

seibelj 5y ago
Printing tons of money is not “heroic”. There is nothing difficult about handing out trillions of dollars.
- tootie 5y ago
  Handing out trillions of dollars at the right time to prevent a disaster is pretty heroic. Crypto is handed out to whoever has the most GPU power.
ViVr 5y ago
The dominant position of the USD on the world stage also might have something to do with the USA having deployed military to more than 150 countries at once and their involvement in regime changes all over the world. Meanwhile the FED heroically partakes in piling on debt for the futures generations.
- imtringued 5y ago
  When your currency is the world reserve currency you are obligated to take on debt.
- tootie 5y ago
  It's due to our centuries of issuing and paying off debt. No one is buying Treasuries because of our foreign policy.
lottin 5y ago
It's not so much that it's tied to esoteric whims but that it would destroy the economy if at some point were to become the primary currency, just like the gold standard did.