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I keep seeing this argument, but do you get that there's an artificial floor placed by these benefits? You can't really talk about the free market at that point

I keep seeing this argument, but do you get that there's an artificial floor placed by these benefits? You can't really talk about the free market at that point.

CyberRabbi 5y ago
Right, gives a whole new meaning to the term “invisible hand”
asdff 5y ago
Presumably this benefit is to cover the wages of someone who might have been employed full time. $300 a week / 40 hours = $7.5/hr. There's your artificial floor. Great money if you are living with your parents, tougher situation if you are the parent.
- NovemberWhiskey 5y ago
  I'm happy to be corrected on this point, but actually aren't we talking about $300 of additional benefits on top of whatever the state is providing that is funded by the Federal government?
  - AuryGlenz 5y ago
    Yep. For me in Minnesota that’s $850 a week, so over $21 an hour for a 40 hour work week. I’m not sure how anyone even approaching minimum wage is supposed to compete with that.
bildung 5y ago
Supply and demand work both ways. If you remove unemployment benefits from the local economy, what do you think this will do to local demand, and thus to revenue of local shops? And what will this do to the wage level the average local shop can afford? Edit: Growing up in the poor part of my country, I could see that first-hand: The father of my friend had a small shop and had a revenue spike every month, the same day every month. It was the day after unemployment benefits landed on people's bank accounts.
TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
There is no free market anywhere, ever. There are only interest groups and power relationships between them, leveraged by various political traditions, one of which includes a very specific kind of relationship we call "money". The concept of a "free market" belongs with Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. It's not something a rational adult should ever admit to believing in. Remember this next time the financial industry demands a bail-out or a major military project goes ridiculously over budget, and everyone pretends to be shocked and surprised.
imtringued 5y ago
>I keep seeing this argument, but do you get that there's an artificial floor placed by these benefits? Artificial floor? This is literally a mechanism in place that adds more money into the economy. You can complain about the tax burden of unemployment insurance but that's not what I am seeing in your comment. Seriously what the hell am I reading here? This is literally the free market in action, if you don't see it then your definition of free market only includes a market that only benefits yourself. The minimum wage is crap because it is a price control. It prevents market signals from working. No additional money is being added into the economy, there is no guarantee that you find employment, it is literally a ban on work. However, unemployment is not that, it is a defacto jobs guarantee except the job in question is merely seeking a job. The reason why job guarantees work is that they create additional money that drives inflation beyond the point where the job guarantee is necessary. If the job guarantee is set at $1500, then inflation will rise until the private sector can afford to pay everyone $1500 or more.

I keep seeing this argument, but do you get that there's an artificial floor placed by these benefits? You can't really talk about the free market at that point.

CyberRabbi 5y ago

Right, gives a whole new meaning to the term “invisible hand”

asdff 5y ago

Presumably this benefit is to cover the wages of someone who might have been employed full time. $300 a week / 40 hours = $7.5/hr. There's your artificial floor. Great money if you are living with your parents, tougher situation if you are the parent.

NovemberWhiskey 5y ago
I'm happy to be corrected on this point, but actually aren't we talking about $300 of additional benefits on top of whatever the state is providing that is funded by the Federal government?
- AuryGlenz 5y ago
  Yep. For me in Minnesota that’s $850 a week, so over $21 an hour for a 40 hour work week. I’m not sure how anyone even approaching minimum wage is supposed to compete with that.

bildung 5y ago

Supply and demand work both ways. If you remove unemployment benefits from the local economy, what do you think this will do to local demand, and thus to revenue of local shops? And what will this do to the wage level the average local shop can afford? Edit: Growing up in the poor part of my country, I could see that first-hand: The father of my friend had a small shop and had a revenue spike every month, the same day every month. It was the day after unemployment benefits landed on people's bank accounts.

TheOtherHobbes 5y ago

There is no free market anywhere, ever. There are only interest groups and power relationships between them, leveraged by various political traditions, one of which includes a very specific kind of relationship we call "money". The concept of a "free market" belongs with Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. It's not something a rational adult should ever admit to believing in. Remember this next time the financial industry demands a bail-out or a major military project goes ridiculously over budget, and everyone pretends to be shocked and surprised.

imtringued 5y ago

>I keep seeing this argument, but do you get that there's an artificial floor placed by these benefits? Artificial floor? This is literally a mechanism in place that adds more money into the economy. You can complain about the tax burden of unemployment insurance but that's not what I am seeing in your comment. Seriously what the hell am I reading here? This is literally the free market in action, if you don't see it then your definition of free market only includes a market that only benefits yourself. The minimum wage is crap because it is a price control. It prevents market signals from working. No additional money is being added into the economy, there is no guarantee that you find employment, it is literally a ban on work. However, unemployment is not that, it is a defacto jobs guarantee except the job in question is merely seeking a job. The reason why job guarantees work is that they create additional money that drives inflation beyond the point where the job guarantee is necessary. If the job guarantee is set at $1500, then inflation will rise until the private sector can afford to pay everyone $1500 or more.