5 ms·

My brain is different because I'm bipolar, which some theories suggest is a chemical imbalance. We all know chemicals affect our mood and personality - caffeine

My brain is different because I'm bipolar, which some theories suggest is a chemical imbalance. We all know chemicals affect our mood and personality - caffeine being the most common example. It seems obvious to me that humans with higher levels of testosterone and low levels of estrogen would have traits different than those with the opposite condition, since both are known to affect mood.

joefourier 5y ago
Has there been studies comparing the personality and/or brain structure of transgender individuals before and after x years of hormone therapy? It would also make sense to me that sex hormones affect personality to a large extent. This may be an unconventional take, but I think society would benefit greatly if people stopped seeing sex/gender as something you are, and rather saw it as something you have. I.e., you happen to have an X or Y chromosome which lead to a certain anatomy and hormonal profile. Seeing it as some fundamental component leads to "othering" of the opposite sex and its predictable consequences. I'm personally hoping that radical advancements in sex reassignment technology, along with their acceptance, will eliminate most of the ideological battles concerning sex and gender.
- finnh 5y ago
  Anecdata from female->male trans guys talk about feeling powerful, horny, and rage-prone as a result of testosterone injections.
  - notsofastttt 5y ago
    I recall a show many years ago where there took about half a dozen people to a bar and told them they would be observed for the effects of alcohol. As the beers flowed, their behavior changed as expected under the influence of alcohol. Then it was revealed that the beer was non-alcoholic. I guess your anecdata makes me ask the question of whether the trans guys you know felt that way b/c of the change of hormone ratios or because they were impacted by the same social expectations of how guys are supposed to feel and act.
    - magicalhippo 5y ago
      I witnessed that firsthand. Most of us had just gotten over 18, but not him. One of us ended up buying the beers for him, and he got just as drunk as us. After we'd helped the poor guy into a taxi the news broke. What he didn't know was that the bar had a policy of one beer per id card, so the guy how'd ended up buying for him had gotten alcohol-free beer for our underage mate in addition to the real beer for himself, not telling our classmate of course. For the rest of that year he was known as Claus[1]... [1]: https://www.clausthaler.com/ https://www.clausthaler.com/
  - weasel_words 5y ago
    On the same token, me having low testosterone (age-induced) I became extremely rage-prone, temperamental and aggressive until I started receiving testosterone injections. Immediately calmed me and allowed my "true" personality to emerge. So I don't think you can come to any conclusion about how it will affect one person based on how it affects another.
    - photojosh 5y ago
      This reminded me of stimulants and how they effect ADHD and non-ADHD people differently.
    - AuryGlenz 5y ago
      I suffered from undiagnosed low testosterone due to a concussion for many years. I was definitely more irritable/emotional. I wouldn’t say I had more rage/aggression, but that’s just not very like me. On testosterone I’m definitely more motivated. Hell, one time when my estrogen went too high I had an intense craving for chocolate.
  - raarts 5y ago
    Seen those too, especially the horny part. Also not being able to cry any longer, and female friends complaining about not really listening to them any more.
  - spideymans 5y ago
    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/jul/20/i-forgot-how-to-cry-as-a-man-hrt-gave-me-a-range-of-emotions-i-never-thought-possible https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/jul/20/i-forgo...
- TulliusCicero 5y ago
  This is only after 3/6 months, but they already showed some differences: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30999214/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30999214/
  - rozab 5y ago
    I think it would be hard to make sense of these results without comparing to trans women. A decrease in depression and an increase in social confidence seems likely to occur in both groups.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- throwaway162024 5y ago
  This google sheet has a nice compilation of links to various medical studies. It might be biased but it's at least something. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d9KKqP9IHa5ZxU84a_Jf0vIoAh7e8nj_lCW27KbYBh0/edit#gid=0 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d9KKqP9IHa5ZxU84a_Jf...
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
NickM 5y ago
Yet, with your caffeine example, the brain very quickly acclimates to regular doses of caffeine and returns to a baseline, so I'm not sure what that example really proves. Of course hormones do have effects on the brain, but "chemical X affects our mood, therefore chemicals Y and Z must mean there are huge inherent differences between the genders" feels like a pretty weak argument to me.
- shados 5y ago
  I think the point was just that your personality is in large part a biological construct influenced by the soup of factors that is your physical body. If we could somehow transfer your "soul" (if there is such a thing) in someone else's body, your personality would likely change. How much? We don't know, but it would be non-zero. It's not just your brain, or your hormones, but also stuff like your guts biome. Even if some of these are temporary and fluctuate, they'll still be part of "who you are". But our general's health, socioeconomic context, influence of discrimination (or privilege), peer and society's pressures, etc, also impact our personalities in big ways, so it's pretty tough to separate one from the other. Heck, even what you eat can change it. If you google around, you'll find how people who eat a lot of trans fat were found to be generally more aggressive.
fastball 5y ago
Indeed, and what is strange to me is that people who claim to pursue an "egalitarian" society don't see that as the inevitable outcome. A perfectly egalitarian society would eliminate all societal influence on decision-making, leaving people perfectly free to do whatever they want with their life, not pushed in any particular direction. What happens when you manage that? Well, the only thing that will be impacting decision-making becomes your innate characteristics. And what is arguably the biggest single variable you can change to guarantee large differences in innate characteristics? Sex. In terms of lived experience, an X man and a Y man (e.g. short and tall) will be closer together than an X man and an X woman. As such, your gender gaps will only get larger as you remove societal influence from the process, not smaller, because gender is the single biggest discriminator when comparing two people.
- okareaman 5y ago
  I've observed that in informal gatherings of Caucasian and African-American men and women, that the women sort themselves with women and the men sort themselves with men. Sex overrides race. I can't be sure I'm not experiencing a confirmation bias, so I put this forth only as a casual observation.
  - orwin 5y ago
    Race means you forced people to inbreed, thus creating a "race". Let bastard dogs breed with each other and you will get the most stable staple of what a dog really is in size and comportment. And also understand that dogs are not as dumb as the pure raced element of the species show. Are those people of really different income levels? Class trumps ethnicity, and gender self-segregate within the class. Note that maybe gender segregate since a long time and this is indeed a genetic code. But this is impossible to test against. So it is not really interesting, and a more philosophical debate right now.
    - okareaman 5y ago
      > Race means you forced people to inbreed, thus creating a "race" I'm curious who you think forced Chinese to become Chinese and Aborigines to become Aborigines, etc... You could define race away and say we are all human, but that is also not interesting.

joefourier 5y ago

Has there been studies comparing the personality and/or brain structure of transgender individuals before and after x years of hormone therapy? It would also make sense to me that sex hormones affect personality to a large extent. This may be an unconventional take, but I think society would benefit greatly if people stopped seeing sex/gender as something you are, and rather saw it as something you have. I.e., you happen to have an X or Y chromosome which lead to a certain anatomy and hormonal profile. Seeing it as some fundamental component leads to "othering" of the opposite sex and its predictable consequences. I'm personally hoping that radical advancements in sex reassignment technology, along with their acceptance, will eliminate most of the ideological battles concerning sex and gender.

finnh 5y ago
Anecdata from female->male trans guys talk about feeling powerful, horny, and rage-prone as a result of testosterone injections.
- notsofastttt 5y ago
  I recall a show many years ago where there took about half a dozen people to a bar and told them they would be observed for the effects of alcohol. As the beers flowed, their behavior changed as expected under the influence of alcohol. Then it was revealed that the beer was non-alcoholic. I guess your anecdata makes me ask the question of whether the trans guys you know felt that way b/c of the change of hormone ratios or because they were impacted by the same social expectations of how guys are supposed to feel and act.
  - magicalhippo 5y ago
    I witnessed that firsthand. Most of us had just gotten over 18, but not him. One of us ended up buying the beers for him, and he got just as drunk as us. After we'd helped the poor guy into a taxi the news broke. What he didn't know was that the bar had a policy of one beer per id card, so the guy how'd ended up buying for him had gotten alcohol-free beer for our underage mate in addition to the real beer for himself, not telling our classmate of course. For the rest of that year he was known as Claus[1]... [1]: https://www.clausthaler.com/ https://www.clausthaler.com/
- weasel_words 5y ago
  On the same token, me having low testosterone (age-induced) I became extremely rage-prone, temperamental and aggressive until I started receiving testosterone injections. Immediately calmed me and allowed my "true" personality to emerge. So I don't think you can come to any conclusion about how it will affect one person based on how it affects another.
  - photojosh 5y ago
    This reminded me of stimulants and how they effect ADHD and non-ADHD people differently.
  - AuryGlenz 5y ago
    I suffered from undiagnosed low testosterone due to a concussion for many years. I was definitely more irritable/emotional. I wouldn’t say I had more rage/aggression, but that’s just not very like me. On testosterone I’m definitely more motivated. Hell, one time when my estrogen went too high I had an intense craving for chocolate.
- raarts 5y ago
  Seen those too, especially the horny part. Also not being able to cry any longer, and female friends complaining about not really listening to them any more.
- spideymans 5y ago
  https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/jul/20/i-forgot-how-to-cry-as-a-man-hrt-gave-me-a-range-of-emotions-i-never-thought-possible https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/jul/20/i-forgo...
TulliusCicero 5y ago
This is only after 3/6 months, but they already showed some differences: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30999214/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30999214/
- rozab 5y ago
  I think it would be hard to make sense of these results without comparing to trans women. A decrease in depression and an increase in social confidence seems likely to occur in both groups.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
throwaway162024 5y ago
This google sheet has a nice compilation of links to various medical studies. It might be biased but it's at least something. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d9KKqP9IHa5ZxU84a_Jf0vIoAh7e8nj_lCW27KbYBh0/edit#gid=0 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d9KKqP9IHa5ZxU84a_Jf...

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

NickM 5y ago

Yet, with your caffeine example, the brain very quickly acclimates to regular doses of caffeine and returns to a baseline, so I'm not sure what that example really proves. Of course hormones do have effects on the brain, but "chemical X affects our mood, therefore chemicals Y and Z must mean there are huge inherent differences between the genders" feels like a pretty weak argument to me.

shados 5y ago
I think the point was just that your personality is in large part a biological construct influenced by the soup of factors that is your physical body. If we could somehow transfer your "soul" (if there is such a thing) in someone else's body, your personality would likely change. How much? We don't know, but it would be non-zero. It's not just your brain, or your hormones, but also stuff like your guts biome. Even if some of these are temporary and fluctuate, they'll still be part of "who you are". But our general's health, socioeconomic context, influence of discrimination (or privilege), peer and society's pressures, etc, also impact our personalities in big ways, so it's pretty tough to separate one from the other. Heck, even what you eat can change it. If you google around, you'll find how people who eat a lot of trans fat were found to be generally more aggressive.

fastball 5y ago

Indeed, and what is strange to me is that people who claim to pursue an "egalitarian" society don't see that as the inevitable outcome. A perfectly egalitarian society would eliminate all societal influence on decision-making, leaving people perfectly free to do whatever they want with their life, not pushed in any particular direction. What happens when you manage that? Well, the only thing that will be impacting decision-making becomes your innate characteristics. And what is arguably the biggest single variable you can change to guarantee large differences in innate characteristics? Sex. In terms of lived experience, an X man and a Y man (e.g. short and tall) will be closer together than an X man and an X woman. As such, your gender gaps will only get larger as you remove societal influence from the process, not smaller, because gender is the single biggest discriminator when comparing two people.

okareaman 5y ago
I've observed that in informal gatherings of Caucasian and African-American men and women, that the women sort themselves with women and the men sort themselves with men. Sex overrides race. I can't be sure I'm not experiencing a confirmation bias, so I put this forth only as a casual observation.
- orwin 5y ago
  Race means you forced people to inbreed, thus creating a "race". Let bastard dogs breed with each other and you will get the most stable staple of what a dog really is in size and comportment. And also understand that dogs are not as dumb as the pure raced element of the species show. Are those people of really different income levels? Class trumps ethnicity, and gender self-segregate within the class. Note that maybe gender segregate since a long time and this is indeed a genetic code. But this is impossible to test against. So it is not really interesting, and a more philosophical debate right now.
  - okareaman 5y ago
    > Race means you forced people to inbreed, thus creating a "race" I'm curious who you think forced Chinese to become Chinese and Aborigines to become Aborigines, etc... You could define race away and say we are all human, but that is also not interesting.