6 ms·
Right but abusive and predatory behaviour is STILL abusive and predatory in an oversupply situation.
by Ensorceled 6y ago
Right but abusive and predatory behaviour is STILL abusive and predatory in an oversupply situation.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- jf22 6y agoThe promotional aspects could be worth much more than whatever money they'd earn.
- pionar 6y agoWhy not both then?
- xpe 6y agoYes and Netflix (or the organization making the film) can afford to pay more.
- burnished 6y agoIf Netflix won't pay you, who the fuck will? Whats the value of 'promotion' at that point?
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago> If Netflix won't pay you, who the fuck will? Couples who want that photographer they saw on TV.
- mhdhn 6y ago^ Hello, answer here folks.
- therouwboat 6y agoIs photographer visible in the show? Do they know who she is and how to find her?
- burnished 6y agoAren't those the people already offering to pay in 'exposure' or 'experience'? I have strong doubt that taking no money from Netflix will help you extract payment from other people.
- ipaddr 6y agoNormal people getting married would pay a premium for someone who appeared on tv. Paying netflix would be a smart business opportunity.
- jsdwarf 6y agoYour photos might appear on this Netflix show, which doesn't mean that you/your brand will do so. Or it might appear in the closing credits that are usually skipped.
- JohnWhigham 6y agoThen you add it to your own website/socials that you were in a Netflix show.
- Someone1234 6y agoHow are they worth anything when this sets the standard that the work is worth $0? If anything this moves the needle down on what you can earn later.
- thaumasiotes 6y agoThe Super Bowl doesn't pay the halftime performer. How are they worth anything?
- emodendroket 6y agoSo who are the nobodies who had their breakout because of the Super Bowl?
- Dylan16807 6y agoWhen dozens of celebrities offer to work for free, they won't pick a nobody. So what are you trying to prove? Do you honestly think it wouldn't skyrocket a new performer's career?
- emodendroket 6y agoI think it sounds like an example that doesn't prove what you aim to convince me of.
- Dylan16807 6y agoThe goal was to disprove "this sets the standard that work is worth $0". And celebrities using it in the middle of successful performance careers seems to disprove that idea just fine. You're the one that brought up breakouts, but the part you're demanding proof of is something that's obvious. No, I don't have proof that a nobody performing in the super bowl would have a huge spike in popularity. But I think you're being ridiculous if you think that wouldn't happen. If you want to find a flaw in an argument, demand proof of something that isn't obvious.
- amelius 6y ago> The promotional aspects could be worth much more than whatever money they'd earn. So now you can put this on your resume: I did this job for Netflix. And by the way, they didn't pay me a dime.
- slaymaker1907 6y agoThe better question is why a company with as much cash as Netflix can't afford to pay their photographers.
- Ekaros 6y agoAnd not even some new project done on shoe-string budget. But already known and popular one. Kinda makes you wonder of other aspects of their material. They must have some people to do some photo-shoots and some post-production. So why not use those? Or how are they treated?
- JackFr 6y agoAs stated in the article, it’s a production company. Netflix buys the product, has nothing to do with the nuts and bolts of actually making the show.
- emodendroket 6y agoThis is one of those things often asserted but rarely proven.
- Aunche 6y agoBrands often pay hundreds of thousands on product placement. I'm not sure that's going to help a photographer though. Coke product placement may motivate me to buy a coke, but it's not like I'm going to hire a wedding photographer 1000 miles away.
- emodendroket 6y agoYes, a big company have whole divisions devoted to advertising. But for a business operated by one person it's not really equivalent to talk about doing a full week of work for free, especially one that doesn't prominently display you or your name. Beyond the issue you already mentioned that this is a mostly local business.
- jf22 6y agoYou don't know of any person in a service trade that did promo work to build their portfolio? I know auto mechanics, actors, hair people, nail people, home inspectors, photographers, and cooks who have done free work for free promotions. Some people hate on the concept but it's how people get their start in an industry.
- emodendroket 6y agoIf you think the idea that people will stop valuing things they can get for free and refuse to pay for them is far fetched, I encourage you to see how your hometown newspaper is doing.
- jf22 6y agoYour reply is odd. You wanted "proof" work-for-promotions happen and I just wanted to point out this happens in several trades. Anyway, I don't disagree with your comment at all. Certain trades are undervalued because it takes portfolio building or practice in a professional setting to get started. You seemed to be unaware that this happens but now it seems you do?
- tpmx 6y agoPlease expand on why you think so. Edit: Any why this is the case, in this situation. Please explain? (I'm not from the US - I may be missing something.)
- illumanaughty 6y agoBecause exploiting people is wrong.
- itake 6y agoCan you elaborate how this is exploiting? I am a SWE engineer with photography as a hobby. If a tv show contacted me to do a wedding shoot, I'd be excited for the coverage and I wouldn't feel exploited since doing shoots is fun for me. I could see how there are parallels to the "background actor" industry where, by law, you have to pay all of the talent on screen, even if its a nominal amount and the actor would of worked for free. But that doesn't the case here?
- pavel_lishin 6y agoI hope you can see the difference between doing something for free when it's your hobby, vs. doing something for free when it's your career. If a TV show contacted you do create a web app, would you do that work for free? Would you give up other opportunities to get paid to do so?
- tpmx 6y ago> If a TV show contacted you do create a web app, would you do that work for free? Would you give up other opportunities to get paid to do so? So, say no? (I've done that a couple of times in similar situations.)
- itake 6y ago> would you do that work for free? No, because it is not fulfilling. I do use my career skills to teach under privileged students how to program for free.
- kevinskii 6y agoOne time someone asked me for a favor. I thought it was unreasonable so I declined. I didn't realize this sort of thing was "abusive and predatory." I feel so victimized now.
- happytoexplain 6y agoUnless your neighbor is a gigantic corporate entity and the favor they asked was for you to spend a week dispensing your acquired skills with which you normally achieve your livelihood, then this seems like a totally unreasonable comparison.
- xpe 6y ago> One time someone asked me for a favor. I thought it was unreasonable so I declined. I didn't realize this sort of thing was "abusive and predatory." I feel so victimized now. This is uninteresting from my POV and against the HN guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html > Be kind. Don't be snarky. Please help keep HN interesting. Thanks.
- kevinskii 6y agoYou're right, I should have left off the last sentence. But words mean things. Let's save the description "abusive and predatory" for things that are, well, abusive and predatory. A voluntary invitation to collaborate does not meet that standard, regardless of its reasonableness.
- xpe 6y agoPerhaps, at the individual level, you can claim that 'voluntary' can never mean abusive. But this would be too simplistic. Many 'voluntary' relationships are abusive. Think about the system implications and dynamics over time here. There are power imbalances and changing expectations. People rarely have the unfettered freedom implicit in your claim. And, if you think beyond the individual level -- at the society level, one's analysis must go much deeper.
- gregmac 6y agoIt's clear asking a professional to do this and not being up front about paying $0 is unprofessional and a disrespectful waste of time, but I'm not convinced it's actually predatory or abusive. If someone thinks they'll get more than $their_cost in promotion value, they'll do it. If not, they won't. If no one does, the production company is going to waste a lot of time and burn their reputation trying to avoid what's probably a relatively small expense compared to the budget of their show. It would be even worse if someone wrote an article about it.. oops.
- FabianCC 6y agoThis. I see the biggest problem with the email conversation that the person asking was not up front with the 0$ payout in the very first paragraph of the email.
- skeeter2020 6y agoThat's why I always pay the highest historical price for everything, regardless of changing market conditions. Fairness /s
- young_unixer 6y agoThey can just say "no". Problem solved. No abuse, no predation, everyone just goes on with their lives. And if someone wants to say "yes", who are we to tell them what to do with their own time?
- hinkley 6y agoPredation is the act, not the outcome. If everyone says 'no', you're just an unsuccessful predator.