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Apple Watch Likely to Gain BP, Blood Glucose, and Blood Alcohol Monitoring
- ilaksh 5y agoHow can it possibly monitor blood glucose without a sample? The people in the comments seem strangely unsurprised. It somehow can see microscopic features in moving blood through the skin and blood vessel walls?
- rcoveson 5y agoThey trained an ML model that predicts blood glucose based on age, sex, GPS location, and Apple Pay transactions. Just bought a #3 combo at Taco Bell and arrived at home? Blood glucose spikes 15 minutes later.
- ortusdux 5y ago"We see that your blood glucose is low. You are currently 0.3 miles from a Starbucks(TM)."
- nbar 5y agoMaybe Elizabeth Holmes is helping out?
- yuppie_scum 5y agoSweat analysis of some sort
- bjtitus 5y agoThere has been a fair amount of research and (seeming) success in this area: https://www.medicaldesignandoutsourcing.com/mit-researchers-develop-light-based-device-to-measure-blood-glucose/ https://www.medicaldesignandoutsourcing.com/mit-researchers-... Not sure how close it is to being out of the lab but it definitely seems doable.
- random42_ 5y agoFrom the linked article: Apple has been revealed to be the largest customer of the British electronics start-up Rockley Photonics, The Telegraph reports. Rockley Photonics has developed non-invasive optical sensors for detecting multiple blood-related health metrics, including blood pressure, blood glucose, and blood alcohol levels, many of which are only normally detectable with more invasive dedicated medical equipment. Rockley's sensors beam infrared light through a user's skin, much like the existing sensors on the back of the Apple Watch for detecting heart rate and blood oxygen levels. Edit: formatting
- r00fus 5y agoThis is straight-up tricorder level shit if it pans out. Definitely upgrading from my v4 if that's the case.
- throwaway5752 5y agoIt would be very interesting how this would reliably work across a diverse population without some sort of calibration step. I am skeptical, but it is Apple.
- amelius 5y agoThis still doesn't explain how it works. Oxygen and heart rate can be done with light, this is well known, but how does it measure glucose and alcohol levels and blood pressure?
- throwawayboise 5y agoIf someone is really drunk you can smell the alcohol standing near them. Not sure about glucose but possibly it's detecting chemicals diffusing through the skin or pores?
- _Microft 5y agoBlood oxygen levels are also measured optically already. If you can find an optical property of blood (that depends on a particular substance) which can be measured through the skin (infrared light can penetrate skin and flesh to some degree), you can build a sensor for it.
- ilaksh 5y agoInfrared. Got it. Thanks.
- _Microft 5y agoIt is called near-infrared spectroscopy ("NIRS") and you can read more about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-infrared_spectroscopy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-infrared_spectroscopy
- Someone 5y agoCould be something else. The wikipedia page on this technology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noninvasive_glucose_monitor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noninvasive_glucose_monitor) mentions “bioimpedance spectroscopy, microwave/RF sensing, fluorescence technology, mid-infrared spectroscopy, near infrared spectroscopy, optical coherence tomography, optical polarimetry, raman spectroscopy, reverse iontophoresis, and ultrasound technolog“ That page also claims there isn’t any clinically or commercially viable product yet. That seems out of date to me, given that https://www.labiotech.eu/best-biotech/needle-free-glucose-monitoring-for-diabetes-medtech/ https://www.labiotech.eu/best-biotech/needle-free-glucose-mo... mentions 8 devices you can buy now.
- FireBeyond 5y ago> That page also claims there isn’t any clinically or commercially viable product yet. That seems out of date to me, given that https://www.labiotech.eu/best-biotech/needle-free-glucose-mo https://www.labiotech.eu/best-biotech/needle-free-glucose-mo... mentions 8 devices you can buy now. "needle free" !- "non-invasive". Several of those devices are implanted subdermally.
- criddell 5y agoIf they can get blood glucose working through the watch, they are going to sell tens of millions of additional units.
- marc__1 5y agoYou can check out the claims that Rockley Photonics (Apple sensor supplier for the watch) made in their SPAC presentation or their patents https://rockleyphotonics.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Rockley-Photonics-Health-Investor-Presentation-2021-03.pdf https://rockleyphotonics.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Rock... https://patents.justia.com/assignee/rockley-photonics-limited https://patents.justia.com/assignee/rockley-photonics-limite...
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- yazaddaruvala 5y ago> Rockley’s optical technology enables the miniaturization of sensing devices necessary for the evolution of a wearable spectrometer [0] If you have a wearable spectrometer (i.e. measure the wavelengths that are reflected), and a variable light source (i.e. control the frequencies sent into the body), you can isolate repeating patterns, even for molecules like glucose: https://youtu.be/xMa1BQ8z9C0?t=541 https://youtu.be/xMa1BQ8z9C0?t=541 I'm still not sure how they can tell the parts per million, etc. Probably through multiple samples over time, or multiple veins. [0] Page 18: https://rockleyphotonics.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Rockley-Photonics-Health-Investor-Presentation-2021-03.pdf https://rockleyphotonics.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Rock...
- willio58 5y agoThese would be game changers. Even with rough accuracy, these metrics could save lives.
- kristofferR 5y agoRough accuracy could also cost lives though. There would definitively be some dumb people misunderstanding it.
- cyberlurker 5y agoBlood Alcohol monitor is a killer app.
- thepangolino 5y agoNot to be a buzz killer but I don’t think that’s ever happening. Displaying an actual number is bound to have kids try to max it. Using the legal limit and a colour code might open it up to liability.
- arusahni 5y agoPun intended?
- salawat 5y ago>buzz killer I see what you did there. And the killing of buzz is bi-directional too!
- skissane 5y agoYou can already buy devices that display estimates of blood alcohol concentration derived by measuring breath alcohol concentration. I’ve never heard of any of their vendors being successfully sued on the theory you present. I doubt a unit somehow measuring it through the skin would be any different.
- Engineering-MD 5y agoI think the issue would arise if someone used it as justification of normal blood alcohol limits and then drove, was stopped and then found to be sufficiently intoxicated to be illegal. Then sue. If apple say cannot be used in this context, then what context is it actually helpful?
- skissane 5y agoThat already happens with the existing breath-based devices. People claim they measured under the limit on their own device, then still get caught by law enforcement. Sometimes law enforcement has more accurate devices. Blood alcohol concentration can rise immediately after drinking, so sometimes you can measure under the limit when you start to drive but be over the limit when pulled over. Some people just lie, and claim they measured under on their own device even when they didn’t. I’ve never heard of a manufacturer being successfully sued over this. If it was going to happen, it probably would have happened by now. The law has never had much sympathy for drunks.
- dkarras 5y agoI was never interested in "smart watches" but an affordable and non-invasive blood glucose monitoring would be a game changer for me, even if it is not accurate as the ones diabetics have to use (I am not diabetic) and if it "just works" without fuss like how Apple usually does it.
- gnicholas 5y agoIf I'm understanding the blood glucose monitoring feature correctly, this would be very valuable for me. I don't know that I would want to wear an Apple Watch all the time (my Pebble does what I need on a daily basis), but it would be very helpful to be able to wear one for a month or so to see how my body responds to various foods. For example, I've heard that some people have spikes after eating bananas, but other people do not. Also, rice can be very bad for some people (and different kinds of rice have different effects). I'd be curious to wear one for a month or so just to see how my body reacts to various foods and combinations of foods. I think it's possible to rent devices that do this, but it's hundreds of dollars for not that long of a trial. If I could spend $400, gather data for a month, and then sell the device in like-new condition for $250, that'd be a win in my book.
- throwawayboise 5y agoUnless I had a medical need, I would not want to wear any monitoring devices 24/7. I think it would contribute more to overall anxiety and stress than do anything helpful.
- gnicholas 5y agoI know some people who can't even wear a fitbit to bed because it causes anxiety. I am open to the idea of wearing a device that monitors blood glucose if (1) it could accurately measure blood glucose, and (2) the information it provides me passively/via notification can help me to make significant improvements in my health. For example, if I could make my liver 20% healthier by eating more moderate portions of bread in a meal where I plan to eat dessert, it would be useful to know that. On the other hand, I don't think I have to wear the device forever to gain this information. I could learn about what makes my blood glucose spike after a month or two, and then just carry that knowledge with me going forward.
- troydavis 5y agoEarlier today I submitted a detailed investor-facing presentation from the company, Rockley Photonics, that’s rumored to be supplying Apple: https://rockleyphotonics.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Rockley-Photonics-Health-Investor-Presentation-2021-03.pdf https://rockleyphotonics.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Rock... (as https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27025282 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27025282). As part of merging into a SPAC, Rockley announced Apple as its largest customer (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/05/01/apple-watch-could-add-blood-sugar-alcohol-readings-deal-uk-tech/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/05/01/apple-watc...). That PDF covers what they can monitor, including glucose indication, continuous glucose, BP, and other biomarkers. Slides 25-28 are mostly about their product roadmap and unnamed existing alpha customers. (I don’t have a position in or relationship with this company. The PDF is linked to from https://rockleyphotonics.com/investors/ https://rockleyphotonics.com/investors/)
- fny 5y agoThe SPAC is still trading near NAV even after this news. I feel like someone had to know this premerger... ...I'd stay the hell away if I were you.
- abruzzi 5y agoI really hope this happens (well the blood glucose thing), but this rumor has come around more than once. Admittedly this is the first time I've seen it name a company that is actually working on the tech. I wonder if including this will require FDA approval in the US as a medical device? And will I be able to get my health insurance to pay for it?
- FireBeyond 5y agoThey don't have FDA approval as a medical device for the HRM, yet. They have a lower "clearance"(?) standard, I believe, which won't meet insurance or other requirements.
- packetslave 5y agowell, one of the existing CGM (continuous glucose monitor) products on the market, Freestyle Libre, offers phone-based NFC monitoring of their sensor everywhere EXCEPT in the U.S., because the FDA hasn't given approval yet. It's been "real soon now" for almost a year. Not the sensor itself, mind you. That's been approved forever, just the ability to read it with an app instead of their dedicated NFC reader.
- modeless 5y agoExisting watch heart rate sensors are next to useless IMO even when they work. I've always been skeptical of fitness features on watches. But continuous blood pressure and glucose monitoring would definitely be worth buying and wearing a new watch. Maybe even switching from Android to iOS if it was Apple exclusive. I'm a little skeptical that it's possible to get accurate absolute measurements of those things purely optically, through skin and hair and while the body is in motion, across all skin types, ages, etc. That would be pretty magical.
- steve_adams_86 5y agoI compared a series 4 Apple Watch to my Garmin chest strap HRM and they gave pretty much the same readings. The Apple Watch was well within practical usability for training at the gym. I can't speak to the quality of the following series, but if that isn't good enough, what is?
- jpxw 5y agoBP monitoring would be massively useful. Unless I’m missing something, there isn’t an existing product on the market which measures blood pressure without some kind of inflatable cuff. For people who need to measure BP regularly, this would be quite literally life changing.
- PurpleFoxy 5y agoThe fact that nothing does this makes me wonder how it would be possible apple could be first. Surely if it was possible to do accurately, some other company would have released something.
- Engineering-MD 5y agoThere are some measures to make it work (such as [0] which uses bioimpedance ), but they are small scale, and I suspect reliability and accuracy will be an issue. [0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31312808/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31312808/
- kergonath 5y agoNot to mention, certification and authorisation, which adds years to the pipeline.
- kergonath 5y agoIt’s a bit of a circular logic though, isn’t it? Apple can’t be first, therefore they aren’t first and the sensors are useless. Personally, I have no opinion on the technology, but Apple is actually commonly the first company to use some new technologies in mass-market devices. What they usually do is find a small company with some compelling technology and then either fund it to gain exclusive or privileged access, or buy it outright. The story here (that a small company working on cutting edge sensors has close links with Apple) fits that pattern perfectly.
- PurpleFoxy 5y agoApple is rarely ever the absolute first. Usually similar things have existed for a while and apple comes in and makes them much better and more accessible. Sure, maybe apple is first this time but I have a hard time believing Apple is at the cutting edge of new medical technology.
- Kreotiko 5y agoHope it doesn't end up like Google's blood glucose monitoring contact lens but very likely it will
- pmoriarty 5y agoAre such capabilities going to make the watch a juicier target for hackers? And could such hacking lead to injuries or deaths?
- gedy 5y agoIt would be amazing if they could do continuous BP monitoring throughout the day, without user having to trigger it. I've always struggled with tensing up when taking blood pressure, raising my reading.
- cblconfederate 5y agoThese can be life-altering technologies and i hope we will see open source / reverse-engineered versions of the sensors soon
- thruhiker 5y agoThose features would be enough for me to happily upgrade my Series 4.
- barbegal 5y agoI can't see how this is possible. There is no published research on using light to detect blood glucose and blood alcohol with any accuracy. Blood pressure is just about possible [1] if you calibrate with a real pressure sensor but even then the results aren't great. [1] https://aktiia.com https://aktiia.com
- kasperni 5y agoI don't know about Apple. But I believe Samsung is basing their version on some of the tech from this article: https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/4/eaay5206 https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/4/eaay5206
- NoPicklez 5y agoI relay the words of my housemate that's a nurse. How are they able to do this on simply your wrist when they use large machines with multiple sensors in hospitals? My argument is that those machines are highly accurate, or at least the most accurate in order to diagnose. This extends to the other measurements too like respiratory rate and bloody oxygen saturation.