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Japan is just an awesome place. It's one of the only places I've visited where it's a massive culture shock - but unlike other places, where it's usually becaus
by jonplackett 6y ago
Japan is just an awesome place. It's one of the only places I've visited where it's a massive culture shock - but unlike other places, where it's usually because they haven't quite got stuff together yet. They have everything just the way they want it, it's just totally different to the west.
For example (if you need one aside from trees growing out of other trees) the trash collection trolleys that other countries just see as a horrible dirty thing, in Japan play a happy tune as they go. I miss you Japan. When covid is gone I'll be back.
Edit: and I forgot about the talking, singing, massaging toilets!
- Blikkentrekker 6y agoWhat is your native culture, and what other cultures did you visit, if I might ask?
- jonplackett 6y agoI’m in the UK. I’m not exactly a globe trotter but I was thinking of various South American countries, Thailand. I don’t want to put any of those places down. I love visiting almost anywhere. Mexico is amazing too. Japan just stands out as a bit different. Like they’re on a different trajectory somehow.
- idownvoted 6y agoI came to believe that Island nations (of a certain size) can develop such trajectories, as they are more capable to shut out unwanted influences. For me that includes Japan vis-a-vis the world (and Asia), UK vis-a-vis continental Europe and somehow the US vis-a-vis Europe
- failwhaleshark 6y agoI swear Samsung (Korean) appliances took this to a different extreme with washing machines that proudly sing their end-of-cycle song that cannot be turned off without significant hacking. I do wish backup beepers would be banned worldwide and replaced with white noise warnings.
- jonplackett 6y agoI have one of those washing machines! It’s so pleased with itself when it finishes and is an amusing contrast to the Miele dishwasher’s 4 stern German beeps
- failwhaleshark 6y agoImagine if/when appliances have general AI. Will their cycle-finishing be cracking a joke or having an orgasm? And, will you have a choice as to which? Will they refuse to comply if you don't talk nicely to them, will they get passive-aggressive/maliciously-compliant, and will they hold a grudge?
- rebuilder 6y agoAnd will you have problems if your dishwasher finds your fridge an annoying jerk?
- leghifla 6y agoOr, say, your Samsung washing machine detects on your home network your Bosh fridge and try to use any vulnerability to brick it (and the fridge tries to brick the washing machine too). Appliance war... If people know this, it would be a incentive for consumer to buy all from the same brand. If all manufactures knows this, they would need to pay more attention to security (or at least resilience). Not sure what/who wins in the end
- failwhaleshark 6y agoThey'll be hacking each other and fighting with knives and silverware when your back is turned. Imagine having to discipline your appliances after they blame each other for starting it.
- kwere 6y agothe black mirror we deserve
- christiansakai 6y agoYup, that's why the Japan is content being Japan, and they don't care about diversity or PC talk so much like the West. Nail that sticks out get hammered. Internet SJWs on HN respond to reality by downvoting. Yes!
- totetsu 6y agowhen ever Japan is mentioned on the internet the ethnostate advocates crawl out from under their rock
- christiansakai 6y agoThis is nothing about ethnostate, it is just about being who you are as a people with culture. No need diversity, no need PC, Japan be Japan, that's all. Try going for a tour to the entire Asia, from East Asia to South East Asia and you'll know what I'm talking about.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- oh_sigh 6y agoFrequently, the nail that sticks out sticks out because the Japanese person had the audacity to have a black or korean parent.
- Meerax 6y ago"Deru kugi wa utareru" I believe? This is something cultural that continues to surprise me in the ways it manifests in society. Speaking as an American though I really can't be throwing stones.
- Blikkentrekker 6y agoI think you might misinterpret the meaning of this phrase if you think the U.S.A.-man should not be the one to criticize it. It has nothing to do with race; there are many similar North-West European proverbs that describe a similar tendency that advise against attempting to be exceptional. U.S.A. society is opposite; it is known to celebrate and encourage exceptionalism and to reward those that have achieved it, or were simply born so. And even if your interpretation were true, I see no reason why your country of residence would præclude you from criticizing something you disagree with. — the man who feels responsible for the actions of other by association, I find is is also very often the man who assigns responsibility to the innocent by association.
- jazzabeanie 6y agoI agree. It’s very rare that you think “they should be doing it like this” when you’re in Japan. The super fast train ticket machines, the coloured lines in the stations that tell you where to go, the wash basins that drain into the toilet reservoir. How did Germany get the efficiency stereotype and Japan didn’t?
- tasogare 6y ago> It’s very rare that you think “they should be doing it like this” when you’re in Japan. Then you probably haven’t been living there for long. There are tons of things to change, one of my biggest pet peeve being the lack of house insulation and inefficient warming options (reverse air-con, petrol burner instead of central heating). Another is having to sort recyclable material into different categories which are collected at different days (and just once a week) instead of having a dedicated common bin for them. Speaking of that, lack of trash bin in public space is very annoying too. > How did Germany get the efficiency stereotype and Japan didn’t? Because it’s a deeply inefficient society. Good results is achieved by throwing more humans, usually doing almost jack-shit, to problems. 10 workers cleaning the same square meter, 16 people on a task for few hours, 4 secretaries at a very small clinic, salaryman staying at work bot producing anything just to keep a good image, etc. I witnessed dozens of such examples. European countries are way more efficient in general in part because they know when to stop, and can’t afford to pay too much people being idle.
- Blikkentrekker 6y agoJapanese business culture is quite inefficient and stuck on archaic social protocol observance, but many modern technological advancements are quite efficient. Conversely, German culture is known for it's irrational clinging to cash opposed to electronic payment, obviously Corona is making it reconsider a bit. In Germany, there is a large line where products are manually scanned, paid for in cash, return calculated, and handed back, and before this cash had to be acquired from the a.t.m.; only slightly to the west in the Netherlands, products are chipped and all automatically scanned when passing through a gate, and paying is quickly done with a no contact card.
- bamboozled 6y agoIt looks great on the surface, living in Japan is a different story though. They have it just the way they want it, but it's only through teaching people to be quite subservient and obedient from a young age. There's a lot of unhappiness, loneliness etc. One thing I'd say about the Japanese is their incredibly resilient, like I've never seen a race of people who can put up with so much rubbish and not even complain at all. While it can be seen as a strength, In my opinion it's actually a problem, there's way too much apathy in Japan and in my view, Japan is going backwards, not forwards. They'll likely need another Meiji to get them out of the death spiral they're in. All of that being said, I absolutely love Japan and the culture ad the people, it's truly fascinating and ancient and "special", I just think it's a shame it have this view of perfectionof Japan from the outside, but the problems are mostly going unaddressed and nothing changes for the actual people of Japan, who are so kind.
- vmception 6y agoI found something similar of the shockingly unnecessary politeness that Canadians have, to the point that a US citizen might find it slightly creepy. Beneath the surface it's an oppressive circumstance for many, in Canada.
- joshspankit 6y agoAs a Canadian, I fully agree but will also say that it didn’t used to be like that. Canadians held doors, helped each other, and apologized for being in the way because we had a deeply ingrained belief that everyone is equal. When every human being is equal to you, of course you would help, or point out TP on a shoe, or applaud their culture. However, at some point in the last 20 years “Excuse me” has gone from “We both have an equal right to this space, and I had not noticed I took more than my fair share” to “I’m dirt, and not worthy of taking space at all”. People who believe they are equal is perceived as “high and mighty”/ostracized, while people who believe they are dirt are welcomed as fellow commiserators to complain with. Fair warning: I’ve lived in Canada my whole life, and have watched a lot of shifts that either break my heart or frustrate me.
- Ensorceled 6y ago
- shakaijin 6y agoIDk. I live in Japan and it was amusing at first, but now I hate that everything is making noises, playing melodies and being generally loud.
- choxi 6y agoMy friend once described it as “the only place that’s modern but not western”
- 77pt77 6y agoSinging trash-trolleys are common in Taiwan as well.
- philliphaydon 6y agoWith the exception of Tokyo, I absolutely LOVE Japan... As a place to visit. I would NEVER want to live/work there.
- hparadiz 6y agoIt's a great place to retire in my opinion. They are happy to give you a retirement visa if you have half a million in the bank. Japan can be a cheap, high quality, and very respectful place to be if you're a senior.
- cdavid 6y agoThe health system is fairly inhuman though, especially if you can't speak Japanese fluently
- adrianN 6y agoDo you have a link for the retirement visa process? This is the first time I hear about it.
- nly 6y agoWhy would a country with an aging population want more retirees?
- bildung 6y agoIf the retiree brings his/her own pension, how could this be detrimental? An economy isn't production alone, there have to be consumers, too. Importing affluent retirees is essentially propping up domestic demand.
- philliphaydon 6y agoI'm bias as I'm a Kiwi and my wife is Taiwanese, but my top picks for retirement based on everywhere I've traveled is NZ or Taiwan.
- sixQuarks 6y agoThe garbage trucks in Osaka were the cleanest garbage trucks I've ever seen. In fact, they were probably the cleanest trucks of any kind I've seen compared to the West. Japan is awesome as a visitor, but there are some weird things going on. Some of the older grandpas are just straight up pervs, I think years of being subservient and closer to death, they just give up the charade. I was traveling in Japan with an ex who had large breasts and several old men would literally follow her around and stare at them with zero shame.
- rjzzleep 6y agoI think it's more the limitless respect for age and seniority. It's kinda how Trump probably didn't start as horrible as he is now, but since people never told him to fuck off and he got away with it, it just kept getting worse. In Chinese, boss is spelled lao-ban, teacher is lao-shi, wife is lao-po, and husband lao-gong. Lao means old. There are a lot more of these in the language. I wouldn't be surprised if its similar in japanese(at least considering the society itself) The way I imagine it is, is that society is self-balancing in the sense that if you go out of line society reminds you that something isn't ok. But at some point in time when you're old the society just respects you for being old and gives you a pass whatever you do. In east asian societies being old might be one of those conditions. In the US it might be more related to how much money you have, and how successful you seem.
- danielscrubs 6y agoI was looked upon a lot until I cut my hair. Glaring is a kind of bullying that goes around a lot there and it’s effective in making people conform. Only place in the world where I felt safe leaving my new MacBook in Starbucks while I go to the bathroom so I don’t think conformity is all bad.
- jdgc 6y agoI've lived in Japan for many years and its essentially a western nation with a stronger social conformity / shame culture. The sheer volume of Japan praise on HN is confusing to say the least.
- string 6y agoI think shame is a really useful thing in the context of society and something I feel a lot of Western cultures would benefit from. I've never understood the "don't X shame me" thing, there are a huge number of things that people should feel shame for that I think western societies have normalised. I haven't lived in Japan but I've spent a considerable amount of time there. I accept that Japanese people are much more socially conformist, but it's interesting from a visitor's perspective as I've always felt the cities there feel a lot less homogenised in a lot of ways. Tokyo has always felt far more of a city of people doing interesting and creative things than London, to me at least.
- trainsplanes 6y agoThe US is at a point where it's far more of a shame-driven society than Japan. One wrong move and you, your family, and your employer are trending on twitter and national news and apologizing for your entire existence while everyone publicly announces that they're cutting ties with you. Japan has incredibly strong defamation laws, where half the stuff that hits twitter in the US would land people in trouble in court in Japan for trying to ruin someone's reputation (even if it's justified).
- kewrkewm53 6y ago
- thendrill 6y agoI have worked as an engineer in Japan for Japanese and I hated it. Reason nr. 1. Racism! Japanese are very very racist and would show how they feel superior at every chanse they get. Nr. 2. Japanese are not polite and will not help you unless: they have something to gain, or it is a social setting where they have to act a certain way. Nr. 3. No matter who you are and from where you are, if you are not Japanese in Japan you are a second class citizen. Good luck getting in a Japanese night club if you are not escorted by Japanese. Good luck renting a place. I mean it is no coincidence Japan is they only country to ever get nuked..... Twice! Also every neighbor country to Japan hates Japan
- sva_ 6y ago> I mean it is no coincidence Japan is they only country to ever get nuked..... Twice! That's a terrible thing to say. Maybe people weren't friendly to you because you have a horrible attitude. Saying that neighbouring countries hate Japan is more or less a cliche. It's like saying neighbouring European countries hate Germany. In fact, Koreans for example commonly go over to Japan for a weekend trip.
- thendrill 6y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Japan
- sva_ 6y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Massacres_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Massacres_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_by_country
- Tor3 6y agoI spent half my time in Japan for several years (3 months there, 3 back home), I absolutely _never_ experienced anything like you describe. Even in areas where I was the only foreigner around. Small children would glance an extra time at me, but everybody else treated me exactly as they did treat others. If I looked like I had some problems people would stop and ask. Service in shops was never a problem. And, as someone else already mentioned, Japan is the only place where I would actually leave my PC on the table in Starbucks while visiting the bathroom. And I'll just repeat again that contrary to your Nr. 2 - I was always offered help if I needed it. And it just may happen that I'll stay in Japan for my retirement. We'll see. In any case I'll go back as soon as, or if, the pandemic situation is over.
- suction 6y agoIgnorance is bliss.