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I really, really wish I could opt out of having accounts with the big 3 credit bureaus. Freezes don’t appear to work - they usually say that I don’t have an act

I really, really wish I could opt out of having accounts with the big 3 credit bureaus. Freezes don’t appear to work - they usually say that I don’t have an active freeze whenever I go to lift one. Or their website is down entirely. Or they won’t let me get to the freeze section without clicking no on their paid monitoring services 8 times. For Transunion all I needed to lift a freeze was the last 4 of my SSN, so how does that help? I don’t want to have my information with these companies. Please let me not participate. It’s like every American was given a Chase Bank account at birth that we can’t close, it’s weird.

AdamHede 5y ago
I am a part of a small but passionate group in Denmark, who advocates for giving everyone an account in the national bank at birth. This account would be able to attach a featureless debit card (using our national standard payment system "DanKort"), and have the same interest rate as the national Bank (so for now, slightly negative). Employees of the national bank is already able to get accounts like this. So there is precedence. This is obviously not a particular attractive not sophisticated "product", but it is awfully hard to hurt yourself with, and will have all the functionality that allows you to function in a modern society. Make banking a choice, and force the banks to make sufficiently attractive products to convince me to participate willingly.
- alephu5 5y ago
  DiEM25 advocate for this and it's a great idea. I hope it happens in Denmark and that the rest of the world follows suit.
  - sdoering 5y ago
    No I know were the idea in Yannis Varoufakis' new books "Another Now" originated. Or were he proposed it as he is part of DiEM25. Actually quite some interesting thoughts within this book.
- mijamo 5y ago
  The ECB is working on something like that actually.
- runeks 5y ago
  > Make banking a choice […] How does “giving everyone an account in the national bank at birth” correspond to making a choice? How about, instead, you give people the option to open an account with the national bank? That sounds more like a choice.
tobiasSoftware 5y ago
What really upset me was when my wife immigrated, she did so just before Trump passed some new immigration laws. Those laws would have required her to submit her credit scores as part of the paperwork for immigration. The idea that in order to immigrate you have to tell the government information from three private companies is just insane in my opinion. This last week has solidified this opinion as a year and a half later she still can't get info from them, I can't imagine what they would say just after moving here.
drunner 5y ago
Equifax drives me insane. I can't manage my own freeze with them because they can't validate who I am over the phone (none of other bureaus had a problem). Instead, I have spent 6+ hours on the phone with them over the last 3 months. I have faxed the requested information 3 times and mailed it once and nothing has been resolved. I've given up. I recently had to have my credit checked for home purchase and I simply told the lenders that I would not be working with them if they could not use Experian or Transunion to verify my credit. The most insanely infuriating thing about all of is was that when Equifax got hacked, I immediately froze my wife's and my own credit with Equifax. At the time, they required you to create a unique 16 digit key to manage your freeze. They have apparently done away with that, so even though I own the key and can give it to them, it means nothing to them. My wifes account has no issues. My account will be frozen for life at Equifax, I don't care to waste any more time with them and I the credit system in the US with a passion.
- PascLeRasc 5y ago
  I have the same issue, PINs are never recognized. They can't find me when I call in either. I've been able to unfreeze from the iOS app, but that's only because it asks for basically zero information to do so.
colonelpopcorn 5y ago
In lieu of an actual identity system, credit reporting is probably a necessary evil. Or at least an evil inevitability.
garyrob 5y ago
" Freezes don’t appear to work - they usually say that I don’t have an active freeze whenever I go to lift one. Or their website is down entirely. Or they won’t let me get to the freeze section without clicking no on their paid monitoring services 8 times. " It might be worth mentioning that I've had to temporarily lift freezes from all 3 bureaus a number of times and nothing like this has ever happened to me. I've never had any trouble or needed to pay anything.
closeparen 5y ago
Reputation is a pretty fundamental component of existence in a human civilization. The specific implementation leaves a lot to be desired, but the underlying structure - people will talk behind your back about your behavior when deciding how much to trust you - is not going anywhere.
thepasswordis 5y ago
You could accomplish this by just never applying for credit of any kind, couldn't you? In this way, these agencies might have a file about somebody with your name, but it won't really be relevant to you in any way.
- athms 5y ago
  Any query with an SSN/ITIN that doesn't exist will create a report for that number. Different names using the same SSN/ITIN are listed as aliases. Credit reports are queried for many reasons, not only loans.
- cheriot 5y ago
  Until someone else applies for credit with your identity.
  - anyfoo 5y ago
    Please tell me that's not actually possible?
    - iczero 5y ago
      Identity theft!
      - magicalhippo 5y ago
        Obligatory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E
      - artificial 5y ago
        Bank fraud. :)
    - judge2020 5y ago
      Assuming someone knows your name, address, and SSN (something which isn't meant to be secret - the SSA even printed 'not for identification' on the cards for a while), they can apply for credit cards in your name as they often require no other form of identification. The U.S. doesn't have a national login system for identity verification or anything so there's not much that could be done here from the security aspect besides creating a federal credit beurau or a federal ID system (or if login.gov allowed third-party companies to use it).
anyfoo 5y ago
As someone who grew up in Europe and lives in the US now, the whole "credit" thing is still weird to me anyway. In Germany at least, credit cards are mostly only a thing because they are convenient to pay with online, and then often behave like debit cards (paying directly from your bank account) anyway. Everyday shopping happens with debit cards, bills are paid by wiring money. When I came here, I "built credit" by paying everything by credit card and making sure to pay off the entire bill immediately to not incur any interest penalty, but when I read stuff like "always pay off the credit card with the highest APR first", my head's still spinning.
- xeromal 5y ago
  If you're middle class or higher, a credit card is a no-brainer in the US. I pay for 1 international trip a year + a few domestic trips just using my card for every day purchases. I rack up points, pay everything off, and benefit tremendously.
  - jjoonathan 5y ago
    I know that getting a very visible 2% back from an invisible 4% fee is psychologically fun in a way that a European-style 0.5% fee isn't, but the net effect of the American style is still to transfer more money from you to the credit card company.
    - throwawayboise 5y ago
      The fact of the matter is that retail goods and services cost the same whether I pay cash or use a credit card. So might as well take the benefits the card offers. Every great once in a while I will run into a small business that doesn't take credit cards, or offers a discount for cash. But it's quite rare.
      - jjoonathan 5y ago
        Yeah, which the CC oligopoly has conveniently arranged through merchant contracts. The Europeans negotiated around this with legislation and won a better deal. In the US, I'm sure people would scream and cry if the evil government tried to take their 2% rewards, even if it meant 3.5% lower prices. We don't like math very much over here -- as this thread is proving.
judge2020 5y ago
This all stems from the right to privacy and right to control your data, and the overall lack thereof in the United States. All that the credit beuraus do is collect information from various sources about people.
ikiris 5y ago
You aren't the customer, you're the product.
willhinsa 5y ago
That is one way to be able to solve the problem, but the most direct way to solve the problem of credit scams is to put the onus on the bank who opened up the account incorrectly to assume responsibility for the debt, not on the person whose details were spoofed to create the account. This is quite humorously illustrated by a "That Mitchell and Webb Sound" skit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E
- paxys 5y ago
  Completely agree with this. Credit freezes don't work because credit reporting agencies have never been in the business of identity verification or protection. Whoever grants the line of credit should be doing the due diligence on whether the right person is in front of them or not, but they would rather pad their numbers and shift blame to someone else.
- npsimons 5y ago
  > but the most direct way to solve the problem of credit scams is to put the onus on the bank who opened up the account incorrectly to assume responsibility for the debt, not on the person whose details were spoofed to create the account. This. "Identity theft" shouldn't be a term. There's already a term for what's happening, it's called fraud, and it's perpetrated on the banks without involving the person whose identity was "stolen." Consumers shouldn't have to deal with the fallout from banks' fuckups, especially given the resources banks have available to avoid said fuckups.

AdamHede 5y ago

I am a part of a small but passionate group in Denmark, who advocates for giving everyone an account in the national bank at birth. This account would be able to attach a featureless debit card (using our national standard payment system "DanKort"), and have the same interest rate as the national Bank (so for now, slightly negative). Employees of the national bank is already able to get accounts like this. So there is precedence. This is obviously not a particular attractive not sophisticated "product", but it is awfully hard to hurt yourself with, and will have all the functionality that allows you to function in a modern society. Make banking a choice, and force the banks to make sufficiently attractive products to convince me to participate willingly.

alephu5 5y ago
DiEM25 advocate for this and it's a great idea. I hope it happens in Denmark and that the rest of the world follows suit.
- sdoering 5y ago
  No I know were the idea in Yannis Varoufakis' new books "Another Now" originated. Or were he proposed it as he is part of DiEM25. Actually quite some interesting thoughts within this book.
mijamo 5y ago
The ECB is working on something like that actually.
runeks 5y ago
> Make banking a choice […] How does “giving everyone an account in the national bank at birth” correspond to making a choice? How about, instead, you give people the option to open an account with the national bank? That sounds more like a choice.

tobiasSoftware 5y ago

What really upset me was when my wife immigrated, she did so just before Trump passed some new immigration laws. Those laws would have required her to submit her credit scores as part of the paperwork for immigration. The idea that in order to immigrate you have to tell the government information from three private companies is just insane in my opinion. This last week has solidified this opinion as a year and a half later she still can't get info from them, I can't imagine what they would say just after moving here.

drunner 5y ago

Equifax drives me insane. I can't manage my own freeze with them because they can't validate who I am over the phone (none of other bureaus had a problem). Instead, I have spent 6+ hours on the phone with them over the last 3 months. I have faxed the requested information 3 times and mailed it once and nothing has been resolved. I've given up. I recently had to have my credit checked for home purchase and I simply told the lenders that I would not be working with them if they could not use Experian or Transunion to verify my credit. The most insanely infuriating thing about all of is was that when Equifax got hacked, I immediately froze my wife's and my own credit with Equifax. At the time, they required you to create a unique 16 digit key to manage your freeze. They have apparently done away with that, so even though I own the key and can give it to them, it means nothing to them. My wifes account has no issues. My account will be frozen for life at Equifax, I don't care to waste any more time with them and I the credit system in the US with a passion.

PascLeRasc 5y ago
I have the same issue, PINs are never recognized. They can't find me when I call in either. I've been able to unfreeze from the iOS app, but that's only because it asks for basically zero information to do so.

colonelpopcorn 5y ago

In lieu of an actual identity system, credit reporting is probably a necessary evil. Or at least an evil inevitability.

garyrob 5y ago

" Freezes don’t appear to work - they usually say that I don’t have an active freeze whenever I go to lift one. Or their website is down entirely. Or they won’t let me get to the freeze section without clicking no on their paid monitoring services 8 times. " It might be worth mentioning that I've had to temporarily lift freezes from all 3 bureaus a number of times and nothing like this has ever happened to me. I've never had any trouble or needed to pay anything.

closeparen 5y ago

Reputation is a pretty fundamental component of existence in a human civilization. The specific implementation leaves a lot to be desired, but the underlying structure - people will talk behind your back about your behavior when deciding how much to trust you - is not going anywhere.

thepasswordis 5y ago

You could accomplish this by just never applying for credit of any kind, couldn't you? In this way, these agencies might have a file about somebody with your name, but it won't really be relevant to you in any way.

athms 5y ago
Any query with an SSN/ITIN that doesn't exist will create a report for that number. Different names using the same SSN/ITIN are listed as aliases. Credit reports are queried for many reasons, not only loans.
cheriot 5y ago
Until someone else applies for credit with your identity.
- anyfoo 5y ago
  Please tell me that's not actually possible?
  - iczero 5y ago
    Identity theft!
    - magicalhippo 5y ago
      Obligatory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E
    - artificial 5y ago
      Bank fraud. :)
  - judge2020 5y ago
    Assuming someone knows your name, address, and SSN (something which isn't meant to be secret - the SSA even printed 'not for identification' on the cards for a while), they can apply for credit cards in your name as they often require no other form of identification. The U.S. doesn't have a national login system for identity verification or anything so there's not much that could be done here from the security aspect besides creating a federal credit beurau or a federal ID system (or if login.gov allowed third-party companies to use it).

anyfoo 5y ago

As someone who grew up in Europe and lives in the US now, the whole "credit" thing is still weird to me anyway. In Germany at least, credit cards are mostly only a thing because they are convenient to pay with online, and then often behave like debit cards (paying directly from your bank account) anyway. Everyday shopping happens with debit cards, bills are paid by wiring money. When I came here, I "built credit" by paying everything by credit card and making sure to pay off the entire bill immediately to not incur any interest penalty, but when I read stuff like "always pay off the credit card with the highest APR first", my head's still spinning.

xeromal 5y ago
If you're middle class or higher, a credit card is a no-brainer in the US. I pay for 1 international trip a year + a few domestic trips just using my card for every day purchases. I rack up points, pay everything off, and benefit tremendously.
- jjoonathan 5y ago
  I know that getting a very visible 2% back from an invisible 4% fee is psychologically fun in a way that a European-style 0.5% fee isn't, but the net effect of the American style is still to transfer more money from you to the credit card company.
  - throwawayboise 5y ago
    The fact of the matter is that retail goods and services cost the same whether I pay cash or use a credit card. So might as well take the benefits the card offers. Every great once in a while I will run into a small business that doesn't take credit cards, or offers a discount for cash. But it's quite rare.
    - jjoonathan 5y ago
      Yeah, which the CC oligopoly has conveniently arranged through merchant contracts. The Europeans negotiated around this with legislation and won a better deal. In the US, I'm sure people would scream and cry if the evil government tried to take their 2% rewards, even if it meant 3.5% lower prices. We don't like math very much over here -- as this thread is proving.

judge2020 5y ago

This all stems from the right to privacy and right to control your data, and the overall lack thereof in the United States. All that the credit beuraus do is collect information from various sources about people.

ikiris 5y ago

You aren't the customer, you're the product.

willhinsa 5y ago

That is one way to be able to solve the problem, but the most direct way to solve the problem of credit scams is to put the onus on the bank who opened up the account incorrectly to assume responsibility for the debt, not on the person whose details were spoofed to create the account. This is quite humorously illustrated by a "That Mitchell and Webb Sound" skit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E

paxys 5y ago
Completely agree with this. Credit freezes don't work because credit reporting agencies have never been in the business of identity verification or protection. Whoever grants the line of credit should be doing the due diligence on whether the right person is in front of them or not, but they would rather pad their numbers and shift blame to someone else.
npsimons 5y ago
> but the most direct way to solve the problem of credit scams is to put the onus on the bank who opened up the account incorrectly to assume responsibility for the debt, not on the person whose details were spoofed to create the account. This. "Identity theft" shouldn't be a term. There's already a term for what's happening, it's called fraud, and it's perpetrated on the banks without involving the person whose identity was "stolen." Consumers shouldn't have to deal with the fallout from banks' fuckups, especially given the resources banks have available to avoid said fuckups.