19 ms·
Tesla admits its Full Self-Driving technology is a Level 2 system
- lolinder 6y agoTesla is just asking for a lawsuit at some point. First "Autopilot" and now "Full Self-Driving"—it's no wonder people keep treating these vehicles as more capable than they are and getting in accidents! You can't tell someone their car has full self driving capabilities and then expect them to listen when you tell them that they also have to be paying attention 100% of the time. The two ideas are antithetical, and people are going to (consciously or unconsciously) believe the one they see pushed the most.
- matz1 6y ago>You can't tell someone their car has full self driving capabilities and then expect them to listen when you tell them that they also have to be paying attention 100% of the time So its Tesla fault if people doesn't listen?
- lolinder 6y agoNot entirely, but they absolutely share a portion of the blame. Their marketing campaign clearly wants people to believe that these vehicles can drive themselves. They're trying to create that belief in people. That makes them accountable when some subset actually do believe what they've been saying.
- matz1 6y agoTo create believe is basically the goal of every marketing campaign of any kind. Thats expected and reasonable.
- lolinder 6y agoDeceptive advertising is a crime. If you set out to create a belief that is untrue, you're already criminally liable. If the people who believe what you said end up getting killed...
- matz1 6y agoI disagree that its deceptive. Technically yes the car can drive itself albeit not perfect. Tesla never claim it can drive perfectly either.
- femiagbabiaka 6y agoThey claim close to level 5 in public, claim level 2 to regulators. Deceptive or not?
- matz1 6y agoIts not deceptive/contradictory, technically, close to level 5 can be level 2.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- seoaeu 6y agoYes, they have some of the blame. For exactly the same reason that a car company can't remove the airbags and just tell their customers "don't crash!"
- matz1 6y agoCar company can't do that because there are law to prevent that. What law tesla broke in this case?
- fastball 6y agoCan we please, please stop with the whole "Autopilot is so misleading thing". Tesla's Autopilot is more sophisticated and feature-rich than any other autopilot (i.e. in an airplane) that you've ever experienced.
- adrr 6y agoI can go to sleep on a boats autopilot system. On plane autopilot, I can take my hands off the controls and start filling out landing forms.
- rantwasp 6y agoyou can also do this in a Tesla with the difference that you may make the news /s
- seoaeu 6y agoCan we get over this trope of "autopilot doesn't mean self driving." Everybody knows what normal people mean by autopilot. And even if they didn't, introducing the new "Full Self-Driving" terminology seems to me to have a pretty unambiguous meaning.
- fastball 6y agoI don't know a single person that thinks planes are entirely flying themselves without pilot intervention? Not gonna lie you have a very dim view of "normal people". Clearly you do not believe planes are entirely flying themselves, so I'm wondering who these "normal people" are that you are speaking for.
- rantwasp 6y agoi disagree. you don’t get the name autopilot just because you are doing something sophisticated. autopilot in a plane is a true autopilot as it truly controls the plane. in fact apart from takeoff and landing most of the flying is done by the autopilot. is the problem of controlling a plane easier than driving a car? yes. so what?
- nickik 6y agoWhat clickbait nonsense. This is clearly what they are saying about the current system for the current Testers in California. This by no means means that they are not attempting to develop a Level 5 system and it also doesn't mean eventually they call it FSD.
- bagacrap 6y agothey already call it "fsd"
- nickik 6y agoMy point is that the eventual level 5 system will also be called FSD. And they sell FSD but they clearly state it in the Beta and you don't actually get Level 5 autonomy. When you buy it they are very clear on what features are included and what features are not. And they say what features will be added soon. Promising more updates as features come online. This is all clearly stated when you buy the car.
- rvz 6y agoNumerous times we were promised 'Level 5' self driving cars last year: > Tesla 'very close' to level 5 autonomous driving technology - Musk says [0] > Level 5 Self Driving Cars this year (2020) [1] Now, it is admitted that it is Level 2. So its not 'Full Self-Driving' as promised. When will the Elon fanatics stop listening to his bullsh*t? [0] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-autonomous-idUSKBN24A0HE https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-autonomous-idUSKBN2... [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2020/07/09/elon-musk-tesla-will-have-level-5-self-driving-cars-this-year https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2020/07/09/elon-mu...
- JPLeRouzic 6y ago> Numerous times Doesn't the two links refer to the same statement by Musk?
- sharken 6y agoTo get around this misleading marketing, it could help to inform potential buyers about the different levels. Though it will require some serious material much better than e.g. the picture in this article: https://www.dxc.technology/analytics/insights/146175-racing_to_build_autonomous_cars https://www.dxc.technology/analytics/insights/146175-racing_... The current problem is that Tesla is marketing Level 2 capability as if it is Level 4 or 5.
- marketingCrap 6y agoWhat incentive do rational people have to save idiots from their emotions? Marketers have profit incentives, it's not like rational people are going to buy an influencer another car when Tesla will give them one.
- CyanLite4 6y agoWhen the market catches up. I’m no Elon fan, but Tesla FSD is still a generation ahead of anything else available on the market. GM (SuperCruise) and Ford (BlueCruise) make good attempts, but it’s not near FSD quality. Plenty of YouTube videos (@EVDave) out there that compare them against even Tesla basic AutoPilot. Super/BlueCruise are fine for pre-mapped straight line highways, but for the other 90% of the roads out there, Tesla AutoPilot can traverse most of them.
- tyleo 6y agoI find the cars compelling whether they are Full Self-Driving or not. However, it is annoying that Musk touts non-existent features when the existing feature set is already compelling.
- lottin 6y agoThey have to justify the hefty price tag somehow. If the car drives itself and can actually earn you money by driving other people around, then it might be easier for some people to convince themselves that it isn't that expensive.
- dahfizz 6y agoI guess it depends on what value you get from a car. A tesla model 3 performance has a faster 0-60 time than a porche (or similar) for ~1/2 the price. That makes it a great deal for a lot of people, regardless of self driving.
- NickM 6y agoDiscussed previously here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26390834 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26390834
- jpkeisala 6y agoIf it would be any other car manufacturer they would be facing multi-million lawsuits. Instead TSLA is breaking records.
- ocdtrekkie 6y agoYeah, I don't understand why Tesla hasn't simply been ordered to stop calling these features Autopilot or FSD, as both are misleading, and explicitly suggest more capability than they have, causing numerous deaths and accidents. Oh, and anyone who paid extra for these features should be given a refund, as those features were falsely advertised.
- yreg 6y agoHow is autopilot misleading? Autopilot describes the feature well - assisting driver with the operation of the vehicle, some of the time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopilot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopilot
- isbvhodnvemrwvn 6y agoIt's not how the public perceives it.
- feralimal 6y agoEver seen a plastic bag blow across the road? Or a cat cross the road? Or a roadworks barrier blow over in high wind? Or traffic lights be broken and stuck on red? Or a branch fall? Or a little old lady waiting for someone to stop the traffic so she can slowly cross (even if there is a crossing just 30 feet further up the road)? These (and thousands of other random occurences) aren't insurmountable obstacles to a human driver, but would likely cause a program to fail or act in an unintuitive way. I don't see how self-driving cars can ever be good drivers on the road. They are running a program, but not all eventualities can be catered to. More generally, I find the idea of bundling the idea of self-driving cars with electric cars disingenuous. Its contrived as an executive decision has already been made that the masses should not have personal transport (like cars). Instead in the future, we should call a self-driving Uber. This sounds nice perhaps, but I resent it. It is yet another manipulation to take away existing freedoms. Even if local government drops speed limits by 50% to cater to them (they say this relates to safety) or decrease lanes and parking, self driving cars will still be dangerous. Perversely though, the slower speeds, narrower lanes and other traffic 'calming' measures that create traffic jams, will force people of the road. We will want this solution to a governance created problem.
- alexnewman 6y agoI’d prefer 2 to 5
- zozbot234 6y agoIt's a bit weird that they're only claiming Level 2 since the requirements for a Level 3 ADAS are rather modest. For instance, manufacturers have certified the feature of a car "self-driving" in a traffic jam by rolling forward at a human-safe speed as sufficient for a Level 3 ADAS, because the driver can then let her attention slip for a few seconds in this limited situation without endangering safety.
- blamazon 6y agoIt’s doublespeak. To regulators Tesla claims level 2 but for customers they brand it as literally “Full Self Driving Beta.” That way they can avoid any unpleasant regulatory certifications of the actual capability of their system. “Just weight the steering wheel and it’s basically level 3!” - probably something a Tesla salesperson has said to a prospective buyer
- extropy 6y agoThe "levels" beyond 2 are do not add any new driving features, but rather shift the legal responsibility increasingly to the manufacturer. So Tesla has a choice of no unprotected left turns, HD mapped area only or go full in. And they are choosing the full in route which is very Elon's style. And allow them to roll out beta quality features quickly and iterate. I agree it's a PR nightmare right now. I hope they will eventually recertify the current cars as L3+, but for the regular user that will only mean they can now officially take eyes off the road and only look when it beeps.
- sp332 6y agoCalifornia is already claiming that Tesla cars have too much ADAS to drive without Tesla getting a license to operate them in the state. Tesla is actually claiming to CA regulators that the system is not that good so they can avoid needing a license.
- adontz 6y agoAs far as I understand car manufacturing is a regulated industry. I honestly do not understand why cannot we have a regulation that if both hands are not on a steering wheel for more than 10 seconds, then car should gracefully stop? There are technologies in place which measure driver's blinking and tell of driver is tired. Why cannot we detect if driver is looking at the road at all. And if driver does not look at the road for more than 3 seconds, then car should gracefully stop? Maybe I am wrong, but I believe it could make driving much safer, because these stops would be extremely annoying. We already have enforced stop as part of car anti-theft systems and rental car control and it is considered safe enough, so why the heck not?
- XorNot 6y agoA car coming to a halt gently in the middle of a highway is extremely likely to precipitate a multi-car crash. Heck: this is the type of situation which most self-drive systems currently have a very hard time dealing with - a stationary vehicle where they don't expect it.
- m_mueller 6y agoAs another layman this seems like a good idea for the next mandatory safety feature now that driver assist is commoditized - lane keep, adaptive cruise and attention monitoring is enough to implement it.
- sp332 6y agoTesla cheaped out on the touchscreens to save a few bucks. https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows-why-automotive-grade-matters https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows... They have been extremely resistant to adding any hardware even after other companies have used capacitive sensors on the steering wheel and/or eye trackers.
- marketingCrap 6y agoNothing pisses me off more than liars/marketing. How many times do companies like Apple/Tesla say one thing, but the reality is nothing like they claim. For rational people, we can't save people from their psychology tricks. It's mere philanthropy. Meanwhile they have profit at stake and are more than willing to pay for ads/influencers to lie. Maybe we shouldn't care that people fall for lies, but when it's time to make an App, I'm supposed to bend to a lying company.
- mberning 6y agoLex Fridman had Jim Keller on his podcast and they talked about his time at Tesla and his work on auto pilot and autonomous driving in general. Keller was so cavalier about the solvability of self driving. I was wondering how much of Elon’s boundless optimism and reality distortion field had rubbed off on him. His basic point was that with enough high quality data the problem can be solved, but never really addressed the algorithmic complexity of driving. I used to be very bullish about it myself, but after paying more attention to my own driving and how many edge cases and corner cases there are, I am much less convinced.
- numbers_guy 6y agoI found that weird too, and saying "with enough data" is mathematically significant but practically meaningless.
- paulcole 6y agoThrow back to how Tesla promoted Autopilot as recently as 2019: >Full Self-Driving Hardware on All Cars >All Tesla vehicles produced in our factory, including Model 3, have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver. https://web.archive.org/web/20190118080103/Tesla.com/autopilot https://web.archive.org/web/20190118080103/Tesla.com/autopil... Seemed very confident about it at the time...
- mavhc 6y agoThey have the hardware, software is what they're waiting for
- paulcole 6y agoCorrection: They say they have the hardware just like they said they had the software...
- mavhc 6y agoWhen did they said they had the software?
- paulcole 6y agoElon Musk in 2020, “I remain confident that we will have the basic functionality for level 5 autonomy complete this year.” https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-autonomous-idUSKBN24A0HE https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-autonomous-idUSKBN2... And please don’t reply with “well he didn’t literally say, ‘we have the software.’” It is extremely clear that Tesla is either intentionally lying about their self-driving capability or have lied to themselves to the extent that they actually believe their own bullshit.
- mavhc 6y agoSo still 8 months left. Wonder what they mean by "basic functionality" The current FSD beta test is the best that's available on a car you can buy. However the instructions say "be ready to take over at any time", so it's obviously level 2 currently
- yalogin 6y agoThe cars by themselves are really good. But the problem for musk is without self driving the electric is already commoditized and so the value proposition will be a race to the bottom on prices. So he is hyping FSD and selling cars.
- decebalus1 6y ago> The cars by themselves are really good. * citation needed. Tesla level quality control and wonky reliability is what personally turns me off from paying top dollar to be both 'owner' and beta tester.
- mft_ 6y agoNo defence of Tesla here at all, but if you read any large car forum regularly, you will see that delivery of new cars with significant problems (e.g. paintwork, interior trim, even major mechanical parts) is not unheard-of from many major manufacturers. And major manufacturers have also had engineering issues with whole generations of cars.
- the_duke 6y agoMusk recently admitted on Twitter that Google is far ahead, so he finally seems to face reality. Some acquaintances in the industry have said for years that Tesla is in the bottom of the self driving competitors. While Tesla has a wealth of data, Google has thrown countless PhDs at the problem for over a decade and is not anywhere close to level 5.
- azhenley 6y agoBut I can't buy a car from any of those self-driving competitors, so it doesn't seem to matter.
- CydeWeys 6y agoMost of them aren't even intending to ever sell them anyway. You'll hail a Waymo on an as-needed per-trip basis; you won't own one. Owning one and then leaving it unused the vast majority of the time would be incredibly wasteful.
- wefarrell 6y agoWhere is that tweet? I'm trying to find it but having no luck.
- debrice 6y agoThere is a few companies releasing PR announcing they’ve achieved level 3 and 4 but I don’t feel like I’ve seen any on the street (or maybe they are hard to spot?). I’ve been in a few Tesla and they drive themselves quite well (I’m not an expert in self driving but I’m a good driver) I’m genuinely curious, which other manufacturer has a similar level of self driving as Tesla, can deliver an electric vehicle within a week on my doorstep within the same price range?
- wpietri 6y agoI think that's a dangerous way to evaluate self-driving systems. With a little practice, any 10-year-old can "drive quite well" under limited conditions. But what makes for a good driver is not the 99% of the time dealing with optimum conditions, but the how they handle the long tail of increasingly challenging/dangerous situations. I suspect a lot of companies could deliver a Tesla-equivalent system. They're just opposed to killing people in the process. See, for example, this thread from a host of The Autonocast contrasting Tesla's approach with others: https://twitter.com/Tweetermeyer/status/1383778011766398983 https://twitter.com/Tweetermeyer/status/1383778011766398983
- fastball 6y agoLevel 4 doesn't actually include the long-tail though, that's Level 5. It's really a terrible benchmark system. Tesla could be level 4 tomorrow if they said (like Waymo) "we're gonna enable FSD only in the greater Phoenix area", where the roads are well-maintained, they could map them all out, etc. The issue here is that Tesla actually wants a generalized system that will work anywhere a human driver can drive, and does not seem interested in geofencing at all until they've reached that (level 5) point.
- debrice 6y agoI find this strategy very close to the lean startup model (MVP). Go to market with something you believe is better than what’s out there early, have rapid feedback and iterate. Feels like a risky bet for Waymo and others to reach level 4 or 5 only in a limited environment, you might end up with so many untested assumptions
- ctvo 6y agoThe problem with reality distortion fields is they last a short amount of time. Tesla’s is already losing power. You have to deliver regardless of the hype, and frankly, Tsla hasn’t. Elon’s gamesmanship to maintain access to capital so he can lengthen the runaway is a tactic, but again, you have to deliver and this can only go on for so long.
- nickik 6y ago> You have to deliver regardless of the hype, and frankly, Tsla hasn’t. Based on what exactly? They have fast growing revenue and growing operation income, good margin, huge new investments and an exiting product product pipeline with 100000s of per-orders. What exactly outside of getting FSD to Level 5 have they failed to do? > Elon’s gamesmanship to maintain access to capital so he can lengthen the runaway is a tactic, but again, you have to deliver and this can only go on for so long. They have 20+ billion of cash and the have lots of free cash flow as well. Your statement seems totally divorced from reality of the balance sheet.
- atonse 6y agoI’ve said this a thousand times. The difference between SpaceX and Tesla is Gwen Shotwell. She is an excellent check on Elon Musk. You need both. It’s the difference between a company with exceptional engineering talent that also runs well, and a company with exceptional engineering talent that doesn’t run well. I’m really happy with my Model 3 and I continue to wish them success. But these kinds of moves are just pure uncontrolled Elon Musk as-the-engineer. He’s as bad at estimating as I am. I knew the state of machine learning when I decided to just get EAP and not FSD. I’m not celebrating their miss, I’m just saying all this was avoidable.
- frakkingcylons 6y agoHer name is Gwynne Shotwell just fyi
- blhack 6y agoHow on earth are you seriously claiming that Tesla "doesn't run well"? They've gone from nothing, to a major competitive auto manufacturer, in 10 years. Not only that, they've built out the service and infrastructure to support themselves as a major auto manufacturer, as a side project. Seriously look at this map: https://www.tesla.com/findus?v=2&bounds=58.46119224394316%2C-41.738197560485844%2C14.830655521976261%2C-156.79500793951416&zoom=5&filters=store%2Cservice%2Csupercharger%2Cdestination%20charger https://www.tesla.com/findus?v=2&bounds=58.46119224394316%2C... If this was tesla's only accomplishment, it would still be a major one.
- sdfkbadmiop 6y agoIf we judge how well something works by its size or how quickly it grows, the USSR was a resounding success. I judge Tesla by the cars it makes, which are crap.
- graeme 6y agoThey mean relative to SpaceX. Within their respective fields, it seems like SpaceX is much more ahead of the competition than Tesla is.
- mytailorisrich 6y agoTesla is being squeezed on the 2 things its brand marketing is built on: EV and self-driving. I think it's going to be hard for them to compete as the major European and Japanese brands get into these segments with all their weight, with Chinese manufacturers just around the corner.
- NorwegianDude 6y agoIt's highly unlikely that cars will be able to replace drivers in general in five years too. I don't think Elon is stupid, and I think he's fully aware of that. He's just getting rich by tricking customers. I don't get why Tesla is allowed to continue like this. There is two companies I know of that can do basically whatever they want without consequences: Tesla and Apple. Their users believes anything they say.
- vmh1928 6y agoonce people are true believers and that belief has become part of their identity their cognitive biases kick in to ensure no deviation from the belief. We only have to look around at the political arena or the religious arena to see that. No difference in the scientific, financial and business arenas because it's the same human brain involved.
- tim333 6y agoThe users give them some leeway because they make cool products.
- anonymousobvi 6y agoThey definitely look cool, I just wish they worked. Worst reliability in the industry. https://www.motorbiscuit.com/teslas-reliability-ratings-are-pretty-concerning-but-does-anyone-actually-care/ https://www.motorbiscuit.com/teslas-reliability-ratings-are-...
- tim333 6y agoAt least in the vid on that page https://youtu.be/YAtLTLiqNwg https://youtu.be/YAtLTLiqNwg it seems Musk is trying his best. Sadly I'm not a Tesla owner but my Apple stuff works well.
- BluSyn 6y agoThe Beta program is Level 2, this is well known already. It’s intended to collect data amongst volunteers, not as a final end consumer product. The end goal for FSD that most paid for is for Level 5. Not sure why this is confusing. The 10k FSD “add on” is NOT for the Beta they are planning to offer soon, but the final post-beta release, which will be Level 5. The information sent to regulators is for the BETA they are hoping to release in the next month or so. I don’t know why the press in general can’t seem to acknowledge the difference here. Tesla needs to explain better, but given the intentional mis understanding by journalists lately, I sense they feel silence is better than being taken out of context yet again.
- elliekelly 6y agoWhy do you see it as an “intentional misunderstanding” on the part of journalists (and regulators and customers, for that matter) rather than an intentional misstatement, or at least exaggeration, on the part of Tesla?
- diebeforei485 6y agoLiterally the next line of this email to the DMV says they will follow an iterative process and get regulatory approval as they release updates with Level 3+ functionality. This article is essentially disinformation. If the article actually included the relevant source email, it would be obvious to everyone that it is a nothingburger.
- bagacrap 6y agoYou can't call a level 2 system a "beta" of a level 5 system any more than you can call khtml a beta of Chrome.
- BluSyn 6y agoSo your claim is any driverless system that needs training or data gathering by a driver can never achieve level 5? I mean this is obviously spurious bordering on ridiculous at this point. I swear this whole comment section is being over-run by agents of disinformation or luddites. Not sure which is worse.
- goatherders 6y agoI'm not sure how there isn't a large amount of fraud happening here. Maybe because Tesla fans don't care enough to make noise?
- throwastrike 6y agoBut we all knew they lied.
- gibsonf1 6y agoIt is impossible with ML alone to get to Level 3. You have to include a conceptual computing system that can understand what things are, how they usually behave and what they were just doing, so that the system can predict what they might do next and react accordingly, as we humans do instantaneously.
- diebeforei485 6y agoLiterally the next line in the email, which the article conveniently omits: > Please note that Tesla’s development of true autonomous features (SAE Levels 3+) will follow our iterative process (development, validation, early release, etc.) and any such features will not be released to the general public until we have fully validated them and received any required regulatory permits or approvals.
- anonymousobvi 6y agoI think the issue here is that Musk has promised L5 “within a year” since 2016. This is their first honest communication regarding FSD. 2016: https://elonmusk.today/#autonomous-cross-country-trip https://elonmusk.today/#autonomous-cross-country-trip 2020, explicitly mentioning L5: https://mobile.twitter.com/Benshooter/status/1333873434334556161/photo/1 https://mobile.twitter.com/Benshooter/status/133387343433455...
- nutanc 6y agoSo is this the equivalent of saying,"My AI program is a bunch of if else statements."
- dcchambers 6y agoI have very little experience with the industry, but I think car manufacturers are playing a game of chicken to see who will sell a Level 3-certified car first because, while the law supposedly clearly lays out the legal details, in practice there is no prior work for judges and juries to work off of. It's brand new territory, and no one wants to be the first one in. Tesla has discovered they can bypass this because "Full Self Driving Beta" is not a regulated term and it sells like hot-cakes to consumers. I am sure other companies are/will be following suit. No one wants to stamp an official "LEVEL 3/4/5 CERTIFIED" sticker on the official sales sheet.
- yoav 6y agoIf they just renamed it to “eventual full self drive” then all the people who refuse to read the fine print or just aren’t getting the nuance of it would be on the same page with the people that do. I agree the responsibility for clarity is on their marketing to fix, but I’m also saying that if you read the fine print on the site while configuring your purchase it’s pretty clear what FSD is and isn’t.
- xyzzy21 6y agoLOL. Well Duh! Most ML etc. is criminally and delusionally overhyped. But hey, Silicon Valley baby! Am-i-rite! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that we are 10-30 years away from level 5! Level 2 is barely possible and only half-assed if you are in an ideal environment like a "planned city in AZ". Absolutely NO existing self-driving tech could ever handle: * Snow * Heavy rain * Country Roads * Dirt Roads * etc. Humans sometimes have problems with these!
- dang 6y agoThis article is cribbed from https://www.thedrive.com/tech/39647/tesla-admits-current-full-self-driving-beta-will-always-be-a-level-2-system-emails https://www.thedrive.com/tech/39647/tesla-admits-current-ful.... Submitters: please follow the site guidelines, which include: "Please submit the original source. If a post reports on something found on another site, submit the latter." (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html) Previous discussions: Tesla Admits Current ‘Full Self-Driving Beta’ Will Always Be Level 2 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26390834 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26390834 - March 2021 (186 comments) Tesla Admits Current ‘Full Self-Driving Beta’ Will Always Be a Level 2 System - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26533489 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26533489 - March 2021 (36 comments)
- anonymousobvi 6y agoI’m surprised every time I see anyone believe any claims made by Elon Musk at this point. He’s an excellent marketer with a clear business strategy - promise an exciting new technology (“Level 5 by 2018” [1], “wait actually 2021” [2]), take money for “pre-orders”. No need to deliver. Same idea with the 1 million robotaxis and a roadster by 2020, and the Cybertruck by 2021 [1]. I’m just surprised so few people have caught on. Maybe CEO of one of the largest tech companies in the world really is just “bad at estimating”, but if it’s a marketing/fundraising technique, it seems to be working. Not for the customers of course. Bummer for everyone who pre-ordered fairy dust. [1] https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.roadandtrack.com/news/amp35350331/checking-in-on-all-the-promises-elon-musk-and-tesla-have-made/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.roadandtrack.com/news/amp35... [2] https://mobile.twitter.com/Benshooter/status/1333873434334556161 https://mobile.twitter.com/Benshooter/status/133387343433455...