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>Newark PD still arrests Black people at a much much higher rate than white people. And if it's the case that people in the city's black community are committi

>Newark PD still arrests Black people at a much much higher rate than white people. And if it's the case that people in the city's black community are committing arrestable offenses (however stupid some definitions of what is an offense for which you can be arrested and charged with for are), then what should the department do? Not arrest people for doing things it's been ordered to arrest people for doing just because it's bad PR? It's apparently not popular to mention and undoubtedly there are many social victimization factors at work contributing to it, but young men in the black community really do commit more violent crime and crime of many other types than do many young men in a number of other ethnic communities.

elil17 6y ago
> Not arrest people for doing things it's been ordered to arrest people for doing Yes. No one’s ordered police to focus on anyone one kind of crime. Police in America have total discretion to choose which laws they enforce and which they don’t. In Arizona you can get six months in jail for spitting in a public park, but you don’t see Arizona cops trying to arrest everyone for that. It’s a federal crime to let your dog bark in a National Park but the park police don’t really care. Similarly, there’s nothing forcing cops to focus on marijuana possession.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  Is there a reason to believe these drug possession arrests were primarily for marijuana? New Jersey passed a law in mid 2020 to decriminalize it starting January, so I’d be surprised if it were a big police focus in the interval.
- ineedasername 6y ago
  focus on marijuana possession NJ recently legalized weed, so pretty soon those arrests won't be an issue.
  - srswtf123 6y ago
    Except see Chicago, where its also legal, and arresting black people for marijuana related crimes continues unabated. https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-marijuana-legalization-parallel-worlds-20210415-4hydfuinvje27mtctklm7dq4r4-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-marijuana-le...
    - refurb 6y ago
      ”Most arrests involve possessing or attempting to sell amounts over the legal limit of 30 grams. I mean, they are breaking the new marijuana laws. Is this wrong? If I try and make my own moonshine and sell it I’ll go to jail too.
      - wolverine876 6y ago
        Will you? It depends on the law, the resources law enforcement dedicates to moonshine enforcement, the attitude toward you of the individual officers, and your personal power - including your ability to afford a good lawyer. And much of that is strongly correlated with race.
      - quickthrowman 6y ago
        Making your own moonshine can kill people via methanol poisoning. Weed can’t kill you. What’s your point again? Hundreds of thousands of pounds of weed are sold via the black market every year, yet nobody dies[0]. You could also never be caught for moonshining, I know drug dealers who have sold for years without any police contact. [0] People died from consuming THC carts that were tainted with Vitamin E acetate. Otherwise, weed products have not killed anyone ever.
        leetcrew 6y ago
        > People died from consuming THC carts that were tainted with Vitamin E acetate. Otherwise, weed products have not killed anyone ever. there are also concerns about microbial contamination with weed that is improperly grown/processed. this is exactly why weed ought to be legal but regulated. people engaged in grey market sales are performing an end run around the new safety regulations.
- jacobolus 6y ago
  > It’s a federal crime to let your dog bark in a National Park but the park police don’t really care. The regulation (36 CFR § 2.15) says it is prohibited to take pets to any “area closed to the possession of pets”, or to “[allow] a pet to make noise that is unreasonable considering location, time of day or night, impact on park users, and other relevant factors, or that frightens wildlife”. It is entirely reasonable to have this written down, so that it can be enforced if necessary. The presence of dogs has a significant impact on the behavior of wild animals, and park rangers absolutely do care if you bring your dog to areas of a National Park where it should not be, or if your dog is incessantly barking or howling in areas of the park where it is a nuisance. They will walk up to you and tell you to take your dog directly back to your car, or tell you to shut your dog up or leave. If you refuse to follow directions / give them a hard time about it, this regulation gives them authority to take further action, including charging a fine etc.
commentingbadly 6y ago
What a disgusting and false comment https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/09/29/fact-check-meme-shows-incorrect-homicide-stats-race/5739522002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/09/29/fac... - Rates of white-on-white and Black-on-Black homicide are similar, at around 80% and 90% - Rates of Black-on-white and white-on-Black homicide also within 8 points - Police kill Black people at disproportionate rates
- bitcurious 6y ago
  I encourage everyone to actually read the linked article and draw your own conclusions.
  - cto_of_antifa 6y ago
    nah. This rhetorical technique of posting raw data and "begging the question" is a pretty frequent white supremacist talking point. Important to label its argument as disingenuous and move on.
- tynpeddler 6y ago
  That article only covers homicide, which is a relatively rare crime. There are many other types of crimes that can warrant a police response and arrest such as property crime, assault, robbery, etc. In addition, the link provided only covers relative homicide rates, ie what percentage of homicides that occur are committed by member of a given race. It does not address what percentage of individuals in a given demographic that have committed homicide. These sources from the fbi provide a bit better context: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-... https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/revcoa18.pdf https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/revcoa18.pdf Of course, looking at crime statistics only through the lens of race and ethnicity also misses a lot of context. Poverty rates have a huge impact on crime rates and due to racism, both present and past, poverty rates in the American black demographic are much higher than poverty rates in the American white demographic. https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=5137 https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=5137 https://www.statista.com/statistics/422520/us-rate-of-violent-victimization-by-poverty-level/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/422520/us-rate-of-violen...
wolverine876 6y ago
This is trolling. It's purely a strawman setup - nothing factual is provided, it's all speculative; many of the conditions are known to be false; and it ignores our well-established knowledge about racism in law enforcement. Yes, trolling, ignorant BS is not popular.
wolverine876 6y ago
> if There is a lot of evidence, that is easy to find, that laws criminalize African-Americans (e.g., drugs abused by poor African-Americans are criminal and result in prison; those abused by wealthy white people are sicknesses and result in treatment); that police harass and are brutal toward them (e.g., driving while black, predictive policing, and all the well-documented brutality and racism), and that prosecutors and courts sentence them to disproportionately harsh sentences, including long probation and loss of voting rights, and the inability, with a conviction, to get employment. In my city I've seen the police in action many 5 times. Twice, it involved clear abuse and harassment of peaceful African-Americans. It's just my anecdotal experience, but are the odds? Your argument is decades-old at this point; we know so much more now. What do you think of all that's been learned in the meantime (and by learned, I mean learned by the wealthy white population - it was known by some for generations)? Are we going to just rehash decades of learning? Nobody is making the points you are arguing with.
- chitowneats 6y ago
  You must be referring to the crack/cocaine sentencing distinction. That policy was rectified many years ago. Besides that, you're incorrect that black and white Americans consume "different drugs". I would argue that your argument is also "decades old". And the way in which you suggest that issues of race and crime in America are settled, or that we've "learned" the right answer, suggests that you believe people on the other side of this issue are somehow remedial. Surely you see how this can be an obstacle to convincing them you are correct.
  - wolverine876 6y ago
    I listed a few examples; there are many others that are well known and easy to learn about. If you want to provide evidence, address the issues, and advance our knowledge, please do! > you suggest that issues of race and crime in America are settled, or that we've "learned" the right answer, suggests that you believe people on the other side of this issue are somehow remedial. Surely you see how this can be an obstacle to convincing them you are correct. But these strawperson characterizations and this victimhood are more distractions from the issues, as is the ignorance of the GGP post I responded to above - they are well-known ways of halting progress. And yes, there are some things that are well-established (though again, I haven't said the words you put in my mouth); I'm not going to spend time reviewing all human knowledge (also a well-known technique of stopping discussion). I'm here to move forward.

elil17 6y ago

> Not arrest people for doing things it's been ordered to arrest people for doing Yes. No one’s ordered police to focus on anyone one kind of crime. Police in America have total discretion to choose which laws they enforce and which they don’t. In Arizona you can get six months in jail for spitting in a public park, but you don’t see Arizona cops trying to arrest everyone for that. It’s a federal crime to let your dog bark in a National Park but the park police don’t really care. Similarly, there’s nothing forcing cops to focus on marijuana possession.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
Is there a reason to believe these drug possession arrests were primarily for marijuana? New Jersey passed a law in mid 2020 to decriminalize it starting January, so I’d be surprised if it were a big police focus in the interval.
ineedasername 6y ago
focus on marijuana possession NJ recently legalized weed, so pretty soon those arrests won't be an issue.
- srswtf123 6y ago
  Except see Chicago, where its also legal, and arresting black people for marijuana related crimes continues unabated. https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-marijuana-legalization-parallel-worlds-20210415-4hydfuinvje27mtctklm7dq4r4-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-marijuana-le...
  - refurb 6y ago
    ”Most arrests involve possessing or attempting to sell amounts over the legal limit of 30 grams. I mean, they are breaking the new marijuana laws. Is this wrong? If I try and make my own moonshine and sell it I’ll go to jail too.
    - wolverine876 6y ago
      Will you? It depends on the law, the resources law enforcement dedicates to moonshine enforcement, the attitude toward you of the individual officers, and your personal power - including your ability to afford a good lawyer. And much of that is strongly correlated with race.
    - quickthrowman 6y ago
      Making your own moonshine can kill people via methanol poisoning. Weed can’t kill you. What’s your point again? Hundreds of thousands of pounds of weed are sold via the black market every year, yet nobody dies[0]. You could also never be caught for moonshining, I know drug dealers who have sold for years without any police contact. [0] People died from consuming THC carts that were tainted with Vitamin E acetate. Otherwise, weed products have not killed anyone ever.
      - leetcrew 6y ago
        > People died from consuming THC carts that were tainted with Vitamin E acetate. Otherwise, weed products have not killed anyone ever. there are also concerns about microbial contamination with weed that is improperly grown/processed. this is exactly why weed ought to be legal but regulated. people engaged in grey market sales are performing an end run around the new safety regulations.
jacobolus 6y ago
> It’s a federal crime to let your dog bark in a National Park but the park police don’t really care. The regulation (36 CFR § 2.15) says it is prohibited to take pets to any “area closed to the possession of pets”, or to “[allow] a pet to make noise that is unreasonable considering location, time of day or night, impact on park users, and other relevant factors, or that frightens wildlife”. It is entirely reasonable to have this written down, so that it can be enforced if necessary. The presence of dogs has a significant impact on the behavior of wild animals, and park rangers absolutely do care if you bring your dog to areas of a National Park where it should not be, or if your dog is incessantly barking or howling in areas of the park where it is a nuisance. They will walk up to you and tell you to take your dog directly back to your car, or tell you to shut your dog up or leave. If you refuse to follow directions / give them a hard time about it, this regulation gives them authority to take further action, including charging a fine etc.

commentingbadly 6y ago

What a disgusting and false comment https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/09/29/fact-check-meme-shows-incorrect-homicide-stats-race/5739522002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/09/29/fac... - Rates of white-on-white and Black-on-Black homicide are similar, at around 80% and 90% - Rates of Black-on-white and white-on-Black homicide also within 8 points - Police kill Black people at disproportionate rates

bitcurious 6y ago
I encourage everyone to actually read the linked article and draw your own conclusions.
- cto_of_antifa 6y ago
  nah. This rhetorical technique of posting raw data and "begging the question" is a pretty frequent white supremacist talking point. Important to label its argument as disingenuous and move on.
tynpeddler 6y ago
That article only covers homicide, which is a relatively rare crime. There are many other types of crimes that can warrant a police response and arrest such as property crime, assault, robbery, etc. In addition, the link provided only covers relative homicide rates, ie what percentage of homicides that occur are committed by member of a given race. It does not address what percentage of individuals in a given demographic that have committed homicide. These sources from the fbi provide a bit better context: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-... https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/revcoa18.pdf https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/revcoa18.pdf Of course, looking at crime statistics only through the lens of race and ethnicity also misses a lot of context. Poverty rates have a huge impact on crime rates and due to racism, both present and past, poverty rates in the American black demographic are much higher than poverty rates in the American white demographic. https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=5137 https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=5137 https://www.statista.com/statistics/422520/us-rate-of-violent-victimization-by-poverty-level/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/422520/us-rate-of-violen...

wolverine876 6y ago

This is trolling. It's purely a strawman setup - nothing factual is provided, it's all speculative; many of the conditions are known to be false; and it ignores our well-established knowledge about racism in law enforcement. Yes, trolling, ignorant BS is not popular.

wolverine876 6y ago

> if There is a lot of evidence, that is easy to find, that laws criminalize African-Americans (e.g., drugs abused by poor African-Americans are criminal and result in prison; those abused by wealthy white people are sicknesses and result in treatment); that police harass and are brutal toward them (e.g., driving while black, predictive policing, and all the well-documented brutality and racism), and that prosecutors and courts sentence them to disproportionately harsh sentences, including long probation and loss of voting rights, and the inability, with a conviction, to get employment. In my city I've seen the police in action many 5 times. Twice, it involved clear abuse and harassment of peaceful African-Americans. It's just my anecdotal experience, but are the odds? Your argument is decades-old at this point; we know so much more now. What do you think of all that's been learned in the meantime (and by learned, I mean learned by the wealthy white population - it was known by some for generations)? Are we going to just rehash decades of learning? Nobody is making the points you are arguing with.

chitowneats 6y ago
You must be referring to the crack/cocaine sentencing distinction. That policy was rectified many years ago. Besides that, you're incorrect that black and white Americans consume "different drugs". I would argue that your argument is also "decades old". And the way in which you suggest that issues of race and crime in America are settled, or that we've "learned" the right answer, suggests that you believe people on the other side of this issue are somehow remedial. Surely you see how this can be an obstacle to convincing them you are correct.
- wolverine876 6y ago
  I listed a few examples; there are many others that are well known and easy to learn about. If you want to provide evidence, address the issues, and advance our knowledge, please do! > you suggest that issues of race and crime in America are settled, or that we've "learned" the right answer, suggests that you believe people on the other side of this issue are somehow remedial. Surely you see how this can be an obstacle to convincing them you are correct. But these strawperson characterizations and this victimhood are more distractions from the issues, as is the ignorance of the GGP post I responded to above - they are well-known ways of halting progress. And yes, there are some things that are well-established (though again, I haven't said the words you put in my mouth); I'm not going to spend time reviewing all human knowledge (also a well-known technique of stopping discussion). I'm here to move forward.