5 ms·

This is well-intentioned, but kind of misses the point. The interview process at most companies of non-trivial size is designed to expose you and obfuscate the

This is well-intentioned, but kind of misses the point. The interview process at most companies of non-trivial size is designed to expose you and obfuscate the company. Interviewers get 50 minutes to grill you in front of a board. You get 5 minutes at the end, when all you really want is a pee break. Interviewers want you to describe past experiences and projects and incidents in utmost detail. In turn, they expect you to understand that discretion prevents them from sharing many specifics about their current projects, satisfaction with teammates, or thoughts about company direction. The entire process is about creating as big an information imbalance as possible to minimize the hiring risk to them and offload all the stress and frustration onto you.

wombatmobile 6y ago
Your comment emphasises what you call the first 50 minutes, which you characterise as a difficult, imbalanced ordeal. But the article is about what you call the 5 minutes at the end, and how to make it work in your favour. If you ignore that opportunity, your experience will only be worse.
drewrv 6y ago
If you get an offer, it’s reasonable to ask the hiring manager to meet for a coffee and discuss some of this stuff before accepting. They might try to sell you on the role a bit but you can get answers to these questions, and if they refuse to meet you that’s a signal in and of itself.
- quicklime 6y ago
  This is a much better way to do it imo. The 5 minutes at the end is usually just a courtesy, and the interviewer isn't expecting to get grilled. Some (not all) hiring managers even treat this as an additional way to assess you, to see if you're the type of person who has done their research on the company and asks intelligent questions. Much better to set expectations upfront and ask for half hour chat with the hiring manager (or even other team members such a tech leads) separate to the interview.
  - thomaslangston 6y ago
    > The 5 minutes at the end is usually just a courtesy, and the interviewer isn't expecting to get grilled. This is not true in my experience. Questions are expected and insightful questions have been considered major marks in favor of candidates. A lack of questions is seen unfavorably.
joecot 6y ago
This is a lot of companies, but this is not every company. Yes, they probably can't get into specifics with avoid harming worker privacy, but if they have to spend their time obfuscating their culture, I probably don't want to work with them. At this point in my career, as I'm looking for senior roles in internal development, I'm interviewing the company as much as they're interviewing me. If I have to take over major development projects and architecting, I need to know what I'm walking into. If they aren't comfortable answering questions, I don't need to work there. Recently I interviewed for a senior position at a development company, and their CTO seemed miffed by fairly straight forward questions about their history and practices. I didn't get a third interview, but I also see they've now made a posting for that same job a 3rd time, so it doesn't seem like that strategy is working out for them. If you want senior developers to lead, you have to be honest with them about what they're leading.
dehrmann 6y ago
Not getting a chance to ask these questions is only the fault of the interviewee. There's a shortage of engineers, and finding good people is hard. If you don't have enough time to ask these questions in an interview loop, and the company tells you they'd like to make you an offer, if you follow up with "I'm excited about this opportunity, but I'd like to chat with the hiring manager or someone from the team for half an hour before we move forward," the recruiter/coordinator will almost certainly make it happen. I've had companies big and small suggest this after an interview went well so they can sell the team and company more.
- jimbob45 6y ago
  >There's a shortage of engineers r/CSCareerQuestions would readily contest you on that assertion.
  - pja 6y ago
    Yeah: there’s a self-imposed shortage of people capable of passing the tech interview gauntlet would be the more accurate framing.
    - Guest42 6y ago
      The biggest challenge I see is the years of experience requirement on certain technologies that disregards ones that are very similar, particularly when that requirement isn't central to the problems being solved.
- joecot 6y ago
  Given the ludicrousness of the tech interview process, if I have to wait for the offer to ask about company culture, that's too late. I've already put in a dozen hours on the rest of the steps, and passed countless gates, only to now find out I don't actually want to work there with the offer in hand? These things need to be cleared up in the phone screening and the first interview, before both sides have put a tremendous amount of time and effort in.
  - 6y ago
adambatkin 6y ago
Maybe that says something about the company culture. I interview a LOT of candidates, and I make sure that there is always time at the end of the interview for the candidate to ask questions (even if that means running over on my time). Regardless of how well/poorly the interview went, I try to answer honestly and openly, to the best of my abilities. It's not in my best interest (or the company I work for) to hire someone who won't be happy working at the company - they won't be performing their best, and they won't last long.
- fangdejavu 6y ago
  Just out of curiosity, have your company hired someone that you interviewed, that ended up being a complete fiasco?
Kranar 6y ago
Every place I've interviewed at, and my current company as well, gives candidates all the time they want to learn about the company and usually the most competent hires are very selective, have multiple job offers, and use the information they gain about company culture to determine where they want to work. There is absolutely no benefit to a potential employee or the employer not to be up front about these things to good hires. A good hire can easily find another job in a matter of weeks and given the cost to the company to train new hires and get them familiar with the project, it would be a colossal waste to hide these things until after they are hired only to have them leave and have to repeat the entire hiring process all over again.
- hitekker 6y ago
  The asymmetry of information the GP describes boils down to the asymmetry of power between employer and candidate. You aimed to resolve that uncomfortable tension by exaggerating the power of the candidate. In fantasy, a "good hire" is a rockstar; an amazing, fantastic individual who exists on the same plane as their paymaster. Of course, this one person and this group of people see eye-to-eye; they're equals! In reality, particularly in the job realities outside of software engineering, candidates and employers are not equals. The applicant is the supplicant; they compete to do one job for a low price and at low risk to the company. Rejection for that candidate is hardship: a month without a paycheck, a month of uncertainty. Whereas rejection for the average company is just another process, a few more days filling a recruitment pipeline. Such disparity sets the stage for the interview and beyond: the candidate refrains from poking into the gray areas of company for fear of losing the offer, and the company rigorously dissects the candidate for their own enjoyment. Maybe, once the candidate starts the job and sees the company's ugliness, they'll question their decision. But in most cases I've seen, the employee bows to the simple truth that they need their employers more than their employers need them.
  - MarblePillar 6y ago
    Would you say that candidate:employer::supplicant:benefactor::debtor:creditor?
  - 6y ago
the_local_host 6y ago
Even assuming ruthlessness, it's still in the company's interest to make sure a new hire isn't going to quit five minutes after they see what the company is really about. Hiring costs money.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
0800LUCAS 6y ago
You do realize you can just ask the recruiter to have meetings with the team members, right? I've done just that. Once you're done with the interviews and they come back with an offer, ask for 30min with your future manager and 30min with someone from the team. Then you can ask them as much as you want. It also shows the company you are seriously considering them.
hintymad 6y ago
I always asked for additional reverse-interviews after getting an offer from a company, and the company was always happy to chat with me.
mbrodersen 6y ago
Not my experience at all. Interviewers are often open and very frank about what is good/bad about the company. When they aren’t, it tells me that it is not a company for me.
nirui 6y ago
> offload all the stress and frustration onto you Man! I can feel you. However, after these years, I've learned how to be a polite dick: You don't have to wait until they allow you to, job interview is a negotiation, not an interrogation. If you feel abused during an interview, give them an one star on Glass Door and try another company. My strategy go like this: Whenever there is a chance to insert, I will start by asking which version control (or other quality management tool) they are using, followed by the detail of their CI/TDD/release/deploy system and code-reviewing tool, and then the code-reviewing and QA process, and then how they distribute responsibility and reward and so on. In the real world, it sound like: "Oh, You guys using Git? Nice. So, do the team also use CI, such as Jenkins? ..... How you test your code? ..... So what's the code review tool the team is using?". Always sound positive, casual, cute and all while professional, like you just met the child of your middle school crush taking by his dad to your clinic for a flu shot. Control your emotion like an airplane lieutenant telling others "everything will be fine" while the airplane is crashing into the ground at supersonic speed. If they can't produce an appropriate answer, maybe there isn't one[0]. I personally take it as a red flag, and will raise my caution when answering their question from the point and on. Of course, you have to ask the question to the right person. Negotiation itself is a skill. [0] You know, even if they don't have one, the correct and professional answer should be like "Oh, we don't have that right now. We would like to build one if it is necessary for us. [Do you like to share more information about it?|Do you like to build one with us?]"

wombatmobile 6y ago

Your comment emphasises what you call the first 50 minutes, which you characterise as a difficult, imbalanced ordeal. But the article is about what you call the 5 minutes at the end, and how to make it work in your favour. If you ignore that opportunity, your experience will only be worse.

drewrv 6y ago

If you get an offer, it’s reasonable to ask the hiring manager to meet for a coffee and discuss some of this stuff before accepting. They might try to sell you on the role a bit but you can get answers to these questions, and if they refuse to meet you that’s a signal in and of itself.

quicklime 6y ago
This is a much better way to do it imo. The 5 minutes at the end is usually just a courtesy, and the interviewer isn't expecting to get grilled. Some (not all) hiring managers even treat this as an additional way to assess you, to see if you're the type of person who has done their research on the company and asks intelligent questions. Much better to set expectations upfront and ask for half hour chat with the hiring manager (or even other team members such a tech leads) separate to the interview.
- thomaslangston 6y ago
  > The 5 minutes at the end is usually just a courtesy, and the interviewer isn't expecting to get grilled. This is not true in my experience. Questions are expected and insightful questions have been considered major marks in favor of candidates. A lack of questions is seen unfavorably.

joecot 6y ago

This is a lot of companies, but this is not every company. Yes, they probably can't get into specifics with avoid harming worker privacy, but if they have to spend their time obfuscating their culture, I probably don't want to work with them. At this point in my career, as I'm looking for senior roles in internal development, I'm interviewing the company as much as they're interviewing me. If I have to take over major development projects and architecting, I need to know what I'm walking into. If they aren't comfortable answering questions, I don't need to work there. Recently I interviewed for a senior position at a development company, and their CTO seemed miffed by fairly straight forward questions about their history and practices. I didn't get a third interview, but I also see they've now made a posting for that same job a 3rd time, so it doesn't seem like that strategy is working out for them. If you want senior developers to lead, you have to be honest with them about what they're leading.

dehrmann 6y ago

Not getting a chance to ask these questions is only the fault of the interviewee. There's a shortage of engineers, and finding good people is hard. If you don't have enough time to ask these questions in an interview loop, and the company tells you they'd like to make you an offer, if you follow up with "I'm excited about this opportunity, but I'd like to chat with the hiring manager or someone from the team for half an hour before we move forward," the recruiter/coordinator will almost certainly make it happen. I've had companies big and small suggest this after an interview went well so they can sell the team and company more.

jimbob45 6y ago
>There's a shortage of engineers r/CSCareerQuestions would readily contest you on that assertion.
- pja 6y ago
  Yeah: there’s a self-imposed shortage of people capable of passing the tech interview gauntlet would be the more accurate framing.
  - Guest42 6y ago
    The biggest challenge I see is the years of experience requirement on certain technologies that disregards ones that are very similar, particularly when that requirement isn't central to the problems being solved.
joecot 6y ago
Given the ludicrousness of the tech interview process, if I have to wait for the offer to ask about company culture, that's too late. I've already put in a dozen hours on the rest of the steps, and passed countless gates, only to now find out I don't actually want to work there with the offer in hand? These things need to be cleared up in the phone screening and the first interview, before both sides have put a tremendous amount of time and effort in.
- 6y ago

adambatkin 6y ago

Maybe that says something about the company culture. I interview a LOT of candidates, and I make sure that there is always time at the end of the interview for the candidate to ask questions (even if that means running over on my time). Regardless of how well/poorly the interview went, I try to answer honestly and openly, to the best of my abilities. It's not in my best interest (or the company I work for) to hire someone who won't be happy working at the company - they won't be performing their best, and they won't last long.

fangdejavu 6y ago
Just out of curiosity, have your company hired someone that you interviewed, that ended up being a complete fiasco?

Kranar 6y ago

Every place I've interviewed at, and my current company as well, gives candidates all the time they want to learn about the company and usually the most competent hires are very selective, have multiple job offers, and use the information they gain about company culture to determine where they want to work. There is absolutely no benefit to a potential employee or the employer not to be up front about these things to good hires. A good hire can easily find another job in a matter of weeks and given the cost to the company to train new hires and get them familiar with the project, it would be a colossal waste to hide these things until after they are hired only to have them leave and have to repeat the entire hiring process all over again.

hitekker 6y ago
The asymmetry of information the GP describes boils down to the asymmetry of power between employer and candidate. You aimed to resolve that uncomfortable tension by exaggerating the power of the candidate. In fantasy, a "good hire" is a rockstar; an amazing, fantastic individual who exists on the same plane as their paymaster. Of course, this one person and this group of people see eye-to-eye; they're equals! In reality, particularly in the job realities outside of software engineering, candidates and employers are not equals. The applicant is the supplicant; they compete to do one job for a low price and at low risk to the company. Rejection for that candidate is hardship: a month without a paycheck, a month of uncertainty. Whereas rejection for the average company is just another process, a few more days filling a recruitment pipeline. Such disparity sets the stage for the interview and beyond: the candidate refrains from poking into the gray areas of company for fear of losing the offer, and the company rigorously dissects the candidate for their own enjoyment. Maybe, once the candidate starts the job and sees the company's ugliness, they'll question their decision. But in most cases I've seen, the employee bows to the simple truth that they need their employers more than their employers need them.
- MarblePillar 6y ago
  Would you say that candidate:employer::supplicant:benefactor::debtor:creditor?
- 6y ago

the_local_host 6y ago

Even assuming ruthlessness, it's still in the company's interest to make sure a new hire isn't going to quit five minutes after they see what the company is really about. Hiring costs money.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

0800LUCAS 6y ago

You do realize you can just ask the recruiter to have meetings with the team members, right? I've done just that. Once you're done with the interviews and they come back with an offer, ask for 30min with your future manager and 30min with someone from the team. Then you can ask them as much as you want. It also shows the company you are seriously considering them.

hintymad 6y ago

I always asked for additional reverse-interviews after getting an offer from a company, and the company was always happy to chat with me.

mbrodersen 6y ago

Not my experience at all. Interviewers are often open and very frank about what is good/bad about the company. When they aren’t, it tells me that it is not a company for me.

nirui 6y ago

> offload all the stress and frustration onto you Man! I can feel you. However, after these years, I've learned how to be a polite dick: You don't have to wait until they allow you to, job interview is a negotiation, not an interrogation. If you feel abused during an interview, give them an one star on Glass Door and try another company. My strategy go like this: Whenever there is a chance to insert, I will start by asking which version control (or other quality management tool) they are using, followed by the detail of their CI/TDD/release/deploy system and code-reviewing tool, and then the code-reviewing and QA process, and then how they distribute responsibility and reward and so on. In the real world, it sound like: "Oh, You guys using Git? Nice. So, do the team also use CI, such as Jenkins? ..... How you test your code? ..... So what's the code review tool the team is using?". Always sound positive, casual, cute and all while professional, like you just met the child of your middle school crush taking by his dad to your clinic for a flu shot. Control your emotion like an airplane lieutenant telling others "everything will be fine" while the airplane is crashing into the ground at supersonic speed. If they can't produce an appropriate answer, maybe there isn't one[0]. I personally take it as a red flag, and will raise my caution when answering their question from the point and on. Of course, you have to ask the question to the right person. Negotiation itself is a skill. [0] You know, even if they don't have one, the correct and professional answer should be like "Oh, we don't have that right now. We would like to build one if it is necessary for us. [Do you like to share more information about it?|Do you like to build one with us?]"