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China’s Dystopian “New IP” Plan for a New Internet
- Proven 6y agoThe communist scumbags. They really ought to be banned for pushing that crap around the world.
- 1cvmask 6y agoThis is a hilarious scaremongering article written for those who are clueless. No surprise as it turns out it is from the comically named neocon outfit Foundation for the Defense of Democracies which is the most bellicose warmongering think tank in DC. They never met a poor third world country that they didn’t want bombed. As for 6G the reason we have no leadership is that Lucent was run into the ground by a mindset of constantly meeting Wall Street earnings expectations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucent Huawei surpassed the Europeans (Ericsson, Nokia Siemens etc...) because they invested and innovated and bet the farm on the foundational technology invented by Erdal Arikan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erdal_Arıkan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erdal_Arıkan https://www.wired.com/story/huawei-5g-polar-codes-data-breakthrough/ https://www.wired.com/story/huawei-5g-polar-codes-data-break... > Huawei is proposing a fundamental internet redesign, which it calls “New IP,” designed to build “intrinsic security” into the web. Intrinsic security means that individuals must register to use the internet We forced the world after 9/11 to block anonymous Internet. You cannot get Internet anywhere without ID. You used to be able to get prepaid SIM cards in most countries till we put pressure on them. > Instead, Huawei has worked through the United Nations’ International Telecommunications Union (ITU), where Beijing holds more political sway. The ITU is the right address that most countries accept as the standards bodies for telecommuncations interoperability. By the way we don’t have to abide by the ITU or the world as we routinely ignore the UN anyways. In fact there is precedence of us going our own way. We adopted CDMA and majority of the world adopted GSM in the first phase of the digital mobile adoption. They only truly converged on a mass market level about 15-20 years later with 4G. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Telecommunication_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Telecommunicatio... We can create our own version of 6G and ignore other approaches.
- egberts1 6y agosnippet from link to author link: Theo Lebryk is an intern at the Center on Cyber and Technology Innovation at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies. He is also a Yenching Scholar at Peking University, where he is pursuing a Master’s in China Studies. His research focuses on media in China. He previously graduated from Harvard University with a joint concentration in Social Studies and East Asian Studies and a minor in Computer Science. After graduation, Theo was awarded a Michael C. Rockefeller Fellowship to explore homeless and food culture in Hong Kong. Me: I’d say he did his homework well.
- egberts1 6y agoWhoohoo! downvoted because i stated an opinion after a synopsis of an author (a fact).
- dang 6y agoPlease don't post this sort of dross to HN. It makes threads considerably worse and is explicitly against the rules. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- khuey 6y agoIt's extremely easy to get anonymous Internet in the United States. Open wifi access points are everywhere and prepaid SIMs don't require any sort of ID or registration.
- dicomdan 6y agoThey are proposing New IP system that requires people to register with their real ID in order to use the internet anywhere, not just in China. That’s pretty dystopian in my book.
- RealStickman_ 6y agoYou have to verify your ID or drivers license to get a SIM in Switzerland
- virmundi 6y agoI am some what confused by this being called dystopian. As more and more Westerners call for people being canceled due to a small but vocal minority on Twitter and other platforms, wouldn't this design play right into that? Rather than wasting time defending Twitter, the reasonable social justice warrior would simply petition the sympathetic State functionary to flip the bad-person's Internet connectivity. For example, right now people are trying to silence Candice Owens. Rather than doing that publicly, all they would need to do is find someone within the network admins that agrees and shut her off like Duysak did to Trump's Twitter. This kind of social reform would be made all the more effective due to the fact that the wrong-thinkers would not be able to personally connect to any of their Internet based accounts. Sure, they could still use the debt card to get cash, or their credit card to spend, but only in the physical world. People could easily track the wrong-thinkers and shout them out of restaurants. They couldn't connect to Amazon, Walmart, or even Costco. They would ever increasingly be forced to capitulate to the right-thinkers, or, more appropriately, the Neo-liberal betters. This is not dystopian, this is the way it should be. The original designers of the Internet failed to see how many people would fall out of line with the common, known truths. We should take this page from the Chinese and thank them for their leadership. We all know that no right is absolute. We also know that the wrong-thinkers, because they are in fact wrong thinkers, need guard rails on their speech. We need to use this plan to limit the 1st US amendment, and the equivalent EU laws. Otherwise wrong-think will prevail. People will believe they have the right to autonomy and free thought. They don't. They have the right to think what the Neo-liberal thinkers think. There is no land between these sides. All else are fascists.
- moistbar 6y agoI'm having the hardest time discerning whether or not this is sarcasm.
- User23 6y agoMy ability to detect sarcasm was irreparably mutilated on EFNet IRC in the '90s. For me, posts like that one exist in a superposition of sarcasm and non-sarcasm until something forces a collapse.
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- xbar 6y agoNew IP is an attempt to redesign IP into a top-down governance model. It is not a new "internet protocol." It is a "new internet" protocol where central authority is part of the design. I am morally opposed.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- api 6y agoThe CCP can force Chinese to use this, but why would anyone else use it? I can’t see the USA or EU changing architectures unless our governments mandate it, and I see no moves in that direction. We are barely able to get people to implement IPv6 after 20 years of kicking people in the ass to do it, so it will not happen organically.
- dkdk8283 6y agoMoney. Australia is heavily influenced by Chinese policy, look at their stance on privacy / encryption / etc. Eventually this will percolate to the rest of the world. It will take decades but I’m sure it will happen. Younger generations are already pro censorship. Chinas influence is strong enough to cause the AU PM to say stupid things: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20170714/10385237789/aussie-prime-minister-says-laws-math-dont-apply-australia-when-it-comes-to-encryption.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20170714/10385237789/aussi...
- somedangedname 6y agoIt's a real stretch to claim that the Aus govt's anti-encryption agenda originated in China. Especially since any penetration of encryption within Australia would likely be turned against foreign agents (including the Chinese). Also AFAIK we're still stuck in an unequal trade war with the PRC so they're not exactly flavour of the month around here.
- FpUser 6y agoThat statement of AU PM is definitely worthy of retard. But why do you think it is caused by Chinese influence? From what I understand being able to have "master key" is a wet dream of every government without exception even if said government wants to have nothing to do with China.
- agi_prometheus 6y agoNew surveillance Law.
- gaudat 6y agoI wonder is it possible to isolate a whole country from the rest of the Internet? There are so many services in China that are almost exclusive to people with a Chinese phone number and a WeChat / Alipay account. That sealing the rest of the Internet does not affect Chinese residents using those services.
- api 6y agoSure. Cut the wires. It is now isolated.
- causality0 6y agoWhat I wonder is if that would be a good thing, at least from a selfish standpoint. Wechat is gaining traction in Western markets.
- selfhoster11 6y agoI don't get why you're being downvoted. WeChat has turned into an OS thanks to its mini-programs. It's also integrated with mass surveillance and censorship technology as a built-in. The Web is bad as it is. Replacing it with a proprietary extension of the Chinese government (or any government, for that matter) through slow adoption would be a tragedy.
- varispeed 6y agoIt's becoming clear that their values are completely different from the west. Unfortunately the problem is that consumers here love low prices, but they also love employment rights, social security, free healthcare and other signs of an advanced civilisation - which costs money. The hypocrisy of the society is that they don't care if the product they buy was made in a country that don't respect human rights and was probably made by forced labour or children. As long as they don't see the exploitation, then it does not bother them. Unfortunately, it is not possible to create a campaign that would show consumers how they are condoning human rights abuse by buying these products, because big corporations would have to lose a big stream of money. I would love to see the law changed, so that companies would have to print country of origin of the product, and additional information kind of when you buy eggs, you can see if it is from free range hens or caged. So it should be mandatory to write if product was made using forced labour, children or low paid workers. Next step, I would like to see mandatory filters in online stores, where you could filter out products made in countries that abuse human rights. If you want to buy something on Amazon, that is not coming from China it is extremely time consuming - it should be easy. Finally, products coming from such countries should have a levy, so that the cost of making product in China would be similar as if it was done locally. If we are going to continue supporting China, all the things that they do, will become appealing to sociopathic politicians here and eventually they'll be copying it.
- Iolaum 6y agoGovernments could always impose tariffs to countries that have lower standards on the issues you mentioned and level the planefield. Unfortunately in practice other considerations get more weight.
- throwaway3699 6y ago> The hypocrisy of the society is that they don't care if the product they buy was made in a country that don't respect human rights and was probably made by forced labour or children. As long as they don't see the exploitation, then it does not bother them. I care, but the situation is much like conflict minerals. China is going to be relevant in the supply chain of almost any technological product, or at the very least, the tools that went into making it. Personally I would pay double for products to avoid China, but I do not believe most people can even afford that trade-off if it was practical (and didn't require heaps of upfront research when buying everything from washing machines to batteries).
- WarOnPrivacy 6y agoUnlike the US Gov, JustSecurity has+offers actual evidence of wrongdoing by Huawei. That makes JustSecurity a credible source of Huawei misdeeds, unlike the US Gov.
- qshaman 6y agoIn China you do need an ID/passport to get a phone number and/or a internet contract with one of the 3 ISPs. How is this new?
- angio 6y agoThat's also the case in several (most?) European countries.
- selfhoster11 6y agoPresumably the protocol would also embed this data into the very connections you're establishing to other servers. IPv4 and IPv6 have ways to correlate data, but putting it directly into the connection is on a whole new level when censorship is implemented.
- chenzhekl 6y agoThe whole article is about the political impact of the proposal, but did not discuss the technical details. What the hell is the New IP? How is topdown governance achieved under this new protocol? That is what I want to know. Not sentences like CCP is evil.
- pasquinelli 6y agochina is one of the countries that we in america get propagandized to about. when i hear things about china, russia, venezuela, north korea, cuba, iran, and probably some i've missed, i assume i've recieved no information from what i've heard.
- lq313c 6y agoDoes anyone have a link to the actual details of the proposal? For a tech focused forum like HN, I would expect to see the actual technical detail rather than just political commentary.
- joshlk 6y agohttps://www.huawei.com/us/industry-insights/innovation/new-ip https://www.huawei.com/us/industry-insights/innovation/new-i...
- kodah 6y agoI can see anti-free speech and harm prevention people favoring this model. I know a few of those people on this board, what are your thoughts?
- Proven 6y ago> anti-free speech and harm prevention people But you repeat yourself
- okareaman 6y agoI am genuinely curious about CCP plans if they do become a dominant influence in the world. They are attempting to reprogram Tibetans and Uighurs to erase their culture and make them Chinese. Is that the plan for all other cultures? Is the goal to make us all Chinese speaking Chinese?
- 88840-8855 6y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr8ljRgcJNM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr8ljRgcJNM
- okareaman 6y agoBecoming Americanized is voluntary. Big difference.
- tibbydudeza 6y agoUnlike the Soviet Union they could care less about other countries except for Taiwan , protecting the dominance of the CCP and being able to trade without interference.
- oaiey 6y agoIs it only me, or are half of the companies interested in a similar model. Media streaming, online shopping, banking, or social media are all very interested in your real identity and a strict controlling their interaction with you.
- tomjen3 6y agoSome social media is interested in my real identity. Reddit, and to some extend twitter is not. Reddit doesn't even care if you have multiple accounts, as long as it is not to evade bans. Bankers are only interested in my actual identity because the government force them to. Amazon is only interested in my identity to sell me stuff.
- ForHackernews 6y agoThat'll change. Reddit wants to IPO. Twitter might want to make money eventually.
- ramin_hal9001 6y agoIETF already opened up this can of worms with their DRM schemes now part of the Web standard. China is just taking the next logical step here.
- neodypsis 6y agoWell, hopefully initiatives based on satellite Internet and P2P networks will help avoid these kind of "initiatives".
- NoZZz 6y agoHow convenient for capital.