4 ms·

sure if you're suddenly not counting China's hydropower as renewables suddenly.

soperj 5y ago
Depending on what's flooded Hydro can actually be the dirtest power out there. There's a hydro plant in brazil that contributes 3 times the number of ghg emissions as it's equivalent coal plant.
- edoceo 5y ago
  Belo Monte? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belo_Monte_Dam https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belo_Monte_Dam
- turbinerneiter 5y ago
  That is due to the construction? Just wondering nif there are any hidden runtime emissions you are refering to.
  - samus 5y ago
    The vegetation now covered by water will start to rot and release lots of methane and other goodies. Unless it is cleared away first. This is only practical with trees though.
    - jhgb 5y ago
      Even of you clear it away, you can still get plant matter from upstream.
  - EL_Loco 5y ago
    It is due to the decomposing vegetation under the water. However, it depends on what is under the water. Some hydro reservoirs actually are carbon sinks while others are worse than coal plants. You also have to take time of operation into account. Hydro becomes cleaner as time passes. A 50 year old hydro plant will have had a lot of the vegetation decomposed already vs a 5 year old one.
    - soperj 5y ago
      Not really. It's from rotting trees, and when they decompose in an anaerobic environment they take 3-5 times long to decompose. Most trees will take well over a hundred years to fully decompose.
oefrha 5y ago
- Unless I seriously misinterpreted the news, the significant chunk of hash rate cut due to this blackout is all coal. - Until hydro and other renewables cover all electricity needs, crypto mining hogging hydro just pushes other non-crypto power demands to fossil fuel.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  Technically speaking, western China has a lot of renewable power and not as much demand for it as eastern China. If they were mining in western China to take advantage of lower rates, and that energy can’t be transmitted East anyways, then it might make sense (or they could just move some industry from eastern China to western China to take advantage of renewables, or get that UHV grid working so they can move renewable electricity East to where it’s needed).
  - powerapple 5y ago
    The government has put out policies to encourage industry to move to western China. It is not so much about energy, it is mainly to deal with the imbalance of development between western China and eastern China (more so Northern China and Southern China). As far as I can recall, there was power shortage a few months ago, and I have suspected bitcoin mining would contributed to some of it.
  - kaba0 5y ago
    It doesn’t matter where it is used up, the point is that it is unnecessary work taking a huge amount of energy, that could be used for better things. Even using up purely renewable energy makes every other industry rely more on non-renewables, so it is a lose-lose either way.
    - disruptalot 5y ago
      Maybe with the simplistic perspective that Bitcoin has a value that you can calculate. Energy usecases are worth what energy they use. Energy exists in a mostly free market and that's the best way to determine value. Everything else is conjecture.

Depending on what's flooded Hydro can actually be the dirtest power out there. There's a hydro plant in brazil that contributes 3 times the number of ghg emissions as it's equivalent coal plant.

edoceo 5y ago
Belo Monte? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belo_Monte_Dam https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belo_Monte_Dam
turbinerneiter 5y ago
That is due to the construction? Just wondering nif there are any hidden runtime emissions you are refering to.
- samus 5y ago
  The vegetation now covered by water will start to rot and release lots of methane and other goodies. Unless it is cleared away first. This is only practical with trees though.
  - jhgb 5y ago
    Even of you clear it away, you can still get plant matter from upstream.
- EL_Loco 5y ago
  It is due to the decomposing vegetation under the water. However, it depends on what is under the water. Some hydro reservoirs actually are carbon sinks while others are worse than coal plants. You also have to take time of operation into account. Hydro becomes cleaner as time passes. A 50 year old hydro plant will have had a lot of the vegetation decomposed already vs a 5 year old one.
  - soperj 5y ago
    Not really. It's from rotting trees, and when they decompose in an anaerobic environment they take 3-5 times long to decompose. Most trees will take well over a hundred years to fully decompose.

oefrha 5y ago

- Unless I seriously misinterpreted the news, the significant chunk of hash rate cut due to this blackout is all coal. - Until hydro and other renewables cover all electricity needs, crypto mining hogging hydro just pushes other non-crypto power demands to fossil fuel.

seanmcdirmid 5y ago
Technically speaking, western China has a lot of renewable power and not as much demand for it as eastern China. If they were mining in western China to take advantage of lower rates, and that energy can’t be transmitted East anyways, then it might make sense (or they could just move some industry from eastern China to western China to take advantage of renewables, or get that UHV grid working so they can move renewable electricity East to where it’s needed).
- powerapple 5y ago
  The government has put out policies to encourage industry to move to western China. It is not so much about energy, it is mainly to deal with the imbalance of development between western China and eastern China (more so Northern China and Southern China). As far as I can recall, there was power shortage a few months ago, and I have suspected bitcoin mining would contributed to some of it.
- kaba0 5y ago
  It doesn’t matter where it is used up, the point is that it is unnecessary work taking a huge amount of energy, that could be used for better things. Even using up purely renewable energy makes every other industry rely more on non-renewables, so it is a lose-lose either way.
  - disruptalot 5y ago
    Maybe with the simplistic perspective that Bitcoin has a value that you can calculate. Energy usecases are worth what energy they use. Energy exists in a mostly free market and that's the best way to determine value. Everything else is conjecture.