8 ms·

> Employees are able to take informal breaks throughout their shifts to stretch, get water, use the rest room, or talk to a manager, all without impacting their

> Employees are able to take informal breaks throughout their shifts to stretch, get water, use the rest room, or talk to a manager, all without impacting their performance. This makes me so sad. This shouldn’t be doing something special for your employees that you get to boast about: it should be a basic human right. Talk about setting the bar low...

maxehmookau 6y ago
That was my first thought when I saw this too. I get that addressing bad PR is a sensible option sometimes but it is, in many cases, an outright lie as has been proven. Even if we assume everything written here is true, like you say, it's nothing to be proud of.
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
  Not only are these things nothing to be proud of, they're standard operating procedure for every business I can think of, even ones with otherwise scandalous practices.
  - bbarnett 6y ago
    While essentially true, I find what leapt to my mind amusing. I pictured a mob enforcer, beating on a guy, but stopping @ 2 hours for his 15 minute break.
    - Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
      Pretty sure the thugs at Guantanamo do just that.
      - bbarnett 6y ago
        An amusing(yet sad) truth.
        Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
        Apparently it ruffled a few feathers too...
  - gowld 6y ago
    Have you ever thought about assembly-line jobs?
    - Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
      Yes, and even for the ununionized ones, say meat packing facilities, they can get their boss for a word or go to the can when needed. Meat packers and other line jobs have a lot of problems that I've heard about but bathroom breaks and talking to ones bosses would be novel problems to me for those jobs.
      - btgeekboy 6y ago
        Last Week Tonight recently did a show on the meat packing industry. The lack of bathroom breaks was specifically mentioned. https://youtu.be/IhO1FcjDMV4 https://youtu.be/IhO1FcjDMV4
        Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
        TIL. Thanks for correcting me on that. Does America need to regulate bathroom breaks to deter companies from behaving like psychopaths or can they figure it out on their own and find some humanity?
kjrose 6y ago
Well this is the thing. So many of the "optimizations" and "waste cutting" in the past few decades has been basically cutting 'benefits' that a generation or two ago would've been considered default. It is encouraging though that at least they are acknowledging that these are stuff employees should have.
legitster 6y ago
This still puts Amazon in the upper tier of wage jobs I've held. If you've ever worked on a production line, informal breaks are definitely not an option.
- ignoramous 6y ago
  The argument is more for inhumane work conditions and not who's paying extra to justify those conditions. If anything, given Amazon's market position, they should set industry standards and not merely confirm to them. They're trying, but some folks would rather they tried harder.
- netrus 6y ago
  You cannot really compare a production line to a warehouse. Production lines cannot function when people leave their position at random. On the other hand, there is no pressure to work as fast as you can, because the speed is determined by the production line (and needs to be humane, of course). When you are a picker in a warehouse, the situation is different. The packages can always wait a few minutes. But if I don't want people to piss in bottles, I have to make sure they will not have to compensate for the time lost by working longer/faster.
ecnerwala 6y ago
My grandfather who was born in a poor country and was a farmer through out his life had a better life than these employees. Its a shame that decades (or should I say centuries) of productivity increases in US haven't trickled down in order for these employees to have better options than working at Amazon.
- gowld 6y ago
  How are you measuring quality of life? I assume you are saying that his work was easier in some sense, but what about the benefits that accrued from that work and the life environment in general?
  - ecnerwala 6y ago
    His work wasn't objectively easier - he worked hard but on his own schedule. To be fair, I am measuring quality of life by what's important to me (rather than any standard metric), but there is a fair bit of overlap. The only weak point was healthcare which has since improved but a healthy lifestyle meant he never needed to visit hospitals. All things considered, I would rather be him than an Amazon warehouse worker.
- thehappypm 6y ago
  An Amazon warehouse worker very much can live up to the extremely high standard of living in the US, perhaps not lavishly, but at this income level can still own a home, have a family, have health care, and so on. Poor farmers in third-world countries watch their babies die from curable diseases.
  - ecnerwala 6y ago
    You need a bit of perspective. The last part of your sentence hasn't been true in our country in the last 50 years. Working 3 jobs like a robot isn't what I consider high standard of living.
  - krapp 6y ago
    Own a home, not likely. Not without at least a second job or income from a spouse or extended family. This is apartment rental income, not ownership class income.
motoboi 6y ago
It's in the letter because they are accused of not doing it.
MikeCapone 6y ago
They're not bragging, they're saying it to counter the media narrative about them. I think a lot of white collar workers (ie. journalists and people reading certain papers) are shocked to find out that warehouse/blue collar jobs are hard and not paid great. It says more about the reader than anything else.. I'd wager that conditions are a lot better at Amazon than at some random warehouse where people are working out of the media spotlight. Also, if you have over 1 million employees, you can always find plenty of stories of things that went wrong, kind of like in a 1-million population city there's always plenty of stuff going on.
- EdwinLarkin 6y ago
  Working conditions in the US are a lot better than in Africa or the poorest post-USSR countries.What's your point? 1st world countries should not boast about basic human rights.That should be the standard.
  - chakhs 6y ago
    I worked in a warehouse in Africa, we had informal breaks, it was a really tiring job
- tw04 6y ago
  I know people personally who work at a Best Buy warehouse. Their conditions are NOTHING like Amazon's. This isn't a "all warehouse jobs just suck" issue, it's an Amazon issue.

maxehmookau 6y ago

That was my first thought when I saw this too. I get that addressing bad PR is a sensible option sometimes but it is, in many cases, an outright lie as has been proven. Even if we assume everything written here is true, like you say, it's nothing to be proud of.

Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
Not only are these things nothing to be proud of, they're standard operating procedure for every business I can think of, even ones with otherwise scandalous practices.
- bbarnett 6y ago
  While essentially true, I find what leapt to my mind amusing. I pictured a mob enforcer, beating on a guy, but stopping @ 2 hours for his 15 minute break.
  - Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
    Pretty sure the thugs at Guantanamo do just that.
    - bbarnett 6y ago
      An amusing(yet sad) truth.
      - Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
        Apparently it ruffled a few feathers too...
- gowld 6y ago
  Have you ever thought about assembly-line jobs?
  - Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
    Yes, and even for the ununionized ones, say meat packing facilities, they can get their boss for a word or go to the can when needed. Meat packers and other line jobs have a lot of problems that I've heard about but bathroom breaks and talking to ones bosses would be novel problems to me for those jobs.
    - btgeekboy 6y ago
      Last Week Tonight recently did a show on the meat packing industry. The lack of bathroom breaks was specifically mentioned. https://youtu.be/IhO1FcjDMV4 https://youtu.be/IhO1FcjDMV4
      - Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
        TIL. Thanks for correcting me on that. Does America need to regulate bathroom breaks to deter companies from behaving like psychopaths or can they figure it out on their own and find some humanity?

kjrose 6y ago

Well this is the thing. So many of the "optimizations" and "waste cutting" in the past few decades has been basically cutting 'benefits' that a generation or two ago would've been considered default. It is encouraging though that at least they are acknowledging that these are stuff employees should have.

legitster 6y ago

This still puts Amazon in the upper tier of wage jobs I've held. If you've ever worked on a production line, informal breaks are definitely not an option.

ignoramous 6y ago
The argument is more for inhumane work conditions and not who's paying extra to justify those conditions. If anything, given Amazon's market position, they should set industry standards and not merely confirm to them. They're trying, but some folks would rather they tried harder.
netrus 6y ago
You cannot really compare a production line to a warehouse. Production lines cannot function when people leave their position at random. On the other hand, there is no pressure to work as fast as you can, because the speed is determined by the production line (and needs to be humane, of course). When you are a picker in a warehouse, the situation is different. The packages can always wait a few minutes. But if I don't want people to piss in bottles, I have to make sure they will not have to compensate for the time lost by working longer/faster.

ecnerwala 6y ago

My grandfather who was born in a poor country and was a farmer through out his life had a better life than these employees. Its a shame that decades (or should I say centuries) of productivity increases in US haven't trickled down in order for these employees to have better options than working at Amazon.

gowld 6y ago
How are you measuring quality of life? I assume you are saying that his work was easier in some sense, but what about the benefits that accrued from that work and the life environment in general?
- ecnerwala 6y ago
  His work wasn't objectively easier - he worked hard but on his own schedule. To be fair, I am measuring quality of life by what's important to me (rather than any standard metric), but there is a fair bit of overlap. The only weak point was healthcare which has since improved but a healthy lifestyle meant he never needed to visit hospitals. All things considered, I would rather be him than an Amazon warehouse worker.
thehappypm 6y ago
An Amazon warehouse worker very much can live up to the extremely high standard of living in the US, perhaps not lavishly, but at this income level can still own a home, have a family, have health care, and so on. Poor farmers in third-world countries watch their babies die from curable diseases.
- ecnerwala 6y ago
  You need a bit of perspective. The last part of your sentence hasn't been true in our country in the last 50 years. Working 3 jobs like a robot isn't what I consider high standard of living.
- krapp 6y ago
  Own a home, not likely. Not without at least a second job or income from a spouse or extended family. This is apartment rental income, not ownership class income.

motoboi 6y ago

It's in the letter because they are accused of not doing it.

MikeCapone 6y ago

They're not bragging, they're saying it to counter the media narrative about them. I think a lot of white collar workers (ie. journalists and people reading certain papers) are shocked to find out that warehouse/blue collar jobs are hard and not paid great. It says more about the reader than anything else.. I'd wager that conditions are a lot better at Amazon than at some random warehouse where people are working out of the media spotlight. Also, if you have over 1 million employees, you can always find plenty of stories of things that went wrong, kind of like in a 1-million population city there's always plenty of stuff going on.

EdwinLarkin 6y ago
Working conditions in the US are a lot better than in Africa or the poorest post-USSR countries.What's your point? 1st world countries should not boast about basic human rights.That should be the standard.
- chakhs 6y ago
  I worked in a warehouse in Africa, we had informal breaks, it was a really tiring job
tw04 6y ago
I know people personally who work at a Best Buy warehouse. Their conditions are NOTHING like Amazon's. This isn't a "all warehouse jobs just suck" issue, it's an Amazon issue.