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I know a lot of people whose minds were ruined by psychedelics. It’s something you will see when you spend time in those communities. It doesn’t happen to every

I know a lot of people whose minds were ruined by psychedelics. It’s something you will see when you spend time in those communities. It doesn’t happen to everyone, but it’s common.

simonswords82 5y ago
I get it - a drug is a drug - and like all drugs I am not saying that psychedelics are a cure all for all people. What I am saying is that it is depressing that we are only just seeing reports from formal sources that psychedelics could be useful for some people.
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  I mean we could just discuss the issue of freedom and making it illegal for people to grow and consume a mushroom and stop making it about just drugs. Marijuana is the same way. If it isn't for someone then they shouldn't do it and we should make as much information available about something available and provide safe environments, but making it illegal especially when plenty of people have experienced positive effects sometimes profound religious experiences it is just another mechanism of control and taking away freedom and natural rights.
  - ganzuul 5y ago
    Freedom is indeed one narrative. What is being (re-)constructed here is a narrative about plant medicine. The concepts used in each narrative are very different, so if we discussing both at the same time may confound each other.
    - encryptluks2 5y ago
      True, but the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as stated in the United States Declaration of Independence has it covered pretty well. Growing your own mushrooms or marijuana does not restrict on other individual rights if they do so willingly, and therefore getting caught up in treating it like a drug that needs to be studied more before they consider making it more accessible seems a bit absurd IMO. They're not being made in labs and grow naturally in many parts of the US.
- giantg2 5y ago
  I'm pretty sure there were formal studies decades ago showing potential use and positive outcomes (I think Stamets books from the 90s reference some formal studies, but i could be wrong). But like a lot of medical research, it never progressed to a market state. I think that's especially true in this case due to the legal classification around it.
  - mellavora 5y ago
    I hear that LSD made the cover of Time magazine 5 times as a wonder drug, curing depression etc. That was pre-1970.
    - giantg2 5y ago
      Yeah, they were able to bring LSD into therapeutic use before it was essentially outlawed. I believe there was one dominant practice in California that became well known as specialists and there were articles written about them and the celebrities that were treated there.
hervature 5y ago
This is why research is needed. My gut feeling is that the root cause is overdosing. Just search "How often can I do shrooms" on Quora and you get the gamut from "1 or 2 times per year", to "microdosing everyday, macrodose every weekend, and hero dose every month".
- high_priest 5y ago
  This is why, even though I stand firm behind the fact, that psychedelic experiences changed my life, I stay sceptic about changing body/brain chemistry over longer periods of time. I used to macrodose and get immensely creative over a week or so. With a happy outlook on nature and all things uncontrollable around me. But then the high died some day. Lethargy came back. Lack of actual structure and the 'happy go lucky' attitude derailed whatever tied my past with plans for the future. Microdosing seemed to help from time to time, but mostly I just get distracted with random consumption instead of planned, structured and thought through creation.
junon 5y ago
Why is this being downvoted? Studies are great, but let's not act like drugs are suddenly safe to use in all cases. I'm sure the studies didn't conclude that. Be pro-shrooms but don't act like they're safe in every case. Education is required before partaking in anything, let alone shrooms.
- nabla9 5y ago
  The subject has been studied. There is no good evidence supporting that. Cause and effect is not easy to separate and anecdotal evidence is just anecdotal. People who are not well are known to 'self medicate'. For example: Increase of alcohol use among people with preexisting problems is well documented. Link between tobacco use and schizophrenia is also well documented. See: "Smoking and schizophrenia" https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19794359/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19794359/ "It has been suggested that smoking may be an attempt by schizophrenic patients to alleviate cognitive deficits and to reduce extrapyramidal side-effects induced by antipsychotic medication." Psychedelics are not the type of drug people keep using if it harms them. If they don't work for you, you really don't want to do them again. (ps. I would not recommend _regular_ drug use of any kind)
- standardUser 5y ago
  Can we point to any data showing that mushrooms or acid (for example) are more dangerous than, say, a coronavirus vaccine or driving a car? Because generally speaking, unless something is concretely documented as dangerous we don't just assume it is dangerous "because". Especially when that "because" is because of a well-documented, decades-long propaganda campaign by the federal government.
  - junon 5y ago
    You haven't had any negative experiences with drugs, have you?
    - standardUser 5y ago
      I have had plenty of negative experiences with the many, many drugs I have done. But the most danger I have ever been in due to drugs has been being the passenger of a drunk driver. That's maybe the only real physical danger I have encountered. I have a hard time even imaging how mushrooms would lead to physical danger. Did you have a point to make?
pwr33 5y ago
Which psychedelics? I've pushed the limits with many tryptamines (at least 300-400 discrete experiences) and 15 years later my cognitive abilities are measurably excellent.
acchow 5y ago
In what way were their minds ruined?
- spoiler 5y ago
  Not OP, but there can be a few things they're alluring to. Some disassociatives are often put into the "psychedelic," and they can cause addiction. Ketamine begin an example. People begin chasing the previous high, which often means higher doses and more money. Some more ignorant people put MDMA (and family) of drugs into this category as well. These drugs are highly neurotoxic, and require a lot of "prep" to take to reduce their neurotoxicity (it's arguable to what degree this prep helps). Moreover frequent user of this can in some people (ie people succeptible to depression) cause a long-term disbalance in their serotonin system (some people take weeks to recover from even one usage). People who have some mental "precondition" (eg such as psychosis, etc) can have some extremely severe response and permanent "side effects" (for a lackeof better expressions) from psychedelics, and never recover. An extremely small percentage of people have what's called Hallucinogen persisting perception disorder (HPPD). Some people find it fun, some don't mind it, while some can't function because of it. Quality of substance you acquire can also vary. On the black market things are often mislabelled or cut with other substances that are easier/cheaper to produce. One notable examples is NBOMe being sold as LSD. NBOMe is more dangerous for a few reasons that I won't be getting into in this post. Always test your stuff with test kits, or if you're not comfortable with that, sense a small bit of your batch to a testing lab (there's a few anonymous/free ones in Europe). Lastly, there's always ignorance or risk of being too "casual" about taking psychedelic due to familiarity with them. This leads to accidental drug combinations (eg some antidepressants + some psychedelics) don't combined well. Aimee just diminished the other, but people reported more severe symptoms. People also combine things recreationally without researching things properly, which can be a bad combo. Speaking of antidepressants and psychedelics: a notable thing to mention is that Lithium salts and LSD have been reported to lead to terors, seizures, and maybe even death (as reported on erowid). I'm not trying to discourage or encourage people from psychedelics. In my personal experience, they can be wonderful and provide healing experiences. However, we need to always be careful when using them, because they have such a profound effect on our minds, and we still understand so little about the mind itself. With that in mind (no pun intended), treat them with respect they deserve!
johnisgood 5y ago
Most likely because they have done normal or high doses too frequently.
- astura 5y ago
  Definitely not the case for the people I know. One trip caused permanent psychosis in one case.
  - johnisgood 5y ago
    Perhaps they were susceptible to it, then. Permanent psychosis though? Is that really a thing?
    - heavyset_go 5y ago
      Yes, it is. Psychotic disorders aren't pretty and they're often permanent. They can go into remission, though.
  - vmception 5y ago
    who what why when where how ever notice how all these stories lack that? all? look, don’t respond to why that might be, but lets just all push for the study and a legal framework that allows for said studies to exist
    - giantg2 5y ago
      Here's a summary with links to studies. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substance-induced_psychosis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substance-induced_psychosis
      - vmception 5y ago
        > F16.5 hallucinogens (LSD and others)[citation needed] no studies found.
dave_sullivan 5y ago
How many is a lot? I've been around a lot of people that do psychedelics, and have done them myself quite a bit. No issues to report. It is a crime that they've been locked away for so long due to Nixon and scare mongers. So many people in jail because of it. Legalize it already, sheesh.
singingfish 5y ago
You'd want to be clear on how much of that was caused by the setting in which they took psychedelics before making a pronouncement.
- disgruntledphd2 5y ago
  Setting is definitely important, as is choice. One of the big problems with illegal psychedelics is that people aren't sure what they are getting. For instance, DOB and MDMA both come in pill form, but have wildly different effects. Some of the worst outcomes I've seen have come when one drug is believed to be another, and this is something that decriminalisation would definitely help with. That being said, psychedelics have traditionally been combined with ritual, and the lack of said rituals can be a big impediment to useful results.
  - vmception 5y ago
    > decriminalisation no only recreational legalization would do that
    - tremon 5y ago
      Here in NL, large festivals have drug testing booths, where the visitors can have their drugs tested so they know what they'll be ingesting. That's possible because of decriminalisation and destigmatization. Legalization would allow the government to create a testing infrastructure so drugs can be tested/validated before they're sold, that's arguably better. But it's definitely possible to create a safer drug environment with decriminalisation only.
      - vmception 5y ago
        Drug testing is possible here in the US with overt criminalization. Decriminalization is just marginally safer. Testing is a huge waste of resources unless its a stopgap towards recreational legalization with a reliable supply chain.
pbadenski 5y ago
This type of empty fear mongering comment is unhelpful at best. It's a McDonalds of a comment. What's a lot of people? Why are psychedelics so special compared to anything else (sugar, Facebook, gambling). "It doesn't happen to everyone, but it's common" - what does this even mean? "Common" based on what criterion? How should our behaviour as a society change based on your comment?
- PedroBatista 5y ago
  I don’t know if they are “special” compared to those, but you seem to imply they are the same. You seem so laser focused on the promising side of things that you completely “forget” each substance is different and it’s use has serious consequences if abused, if not then do heroine.
  - pbadenski 5y ago
    Oh I definitely don't think it's the same. I would argue the items I have listed above are significantly more damaging to society than mushrooms. On the subject of heroin, what about more dangerous psychoactive substance - ethanol? See https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11660210 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11660210 and https://www.ias.org.uk/uploads/pdf/News%20stories/dnutt-lancet-011110.pdf https://www.ias.org.uk/uploads/pdf/News%20stories/dnutt-lanc...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- jokoon 5y ago
  Are you comparing psychedelics to sugar and social media? Unless psilocybin is thoroughly tested and validated as a treatment that is as safe as SSRI, I don't think it's really worthwhile to jump into the psilocybin train.
  - singingfish 5y ago
    SSRI's can be not terribly safe as well. In some people their use leads to extremely unsafe impulsive behaviour and which itself can lead to suicide.
Covzire 5y ago
Care to give a few anecdotes?
Gatsky 5y ago
At least some of this could be the tendency of people with pre-existing mental illness to self-medicate. High smoking rates amongst people with schizophrenia is an example. Smoking seems to ameliorate some psychotic symptoms.
- amanaplanacanal 5y ago
  I’ve also read that many alcoholics are using alcohol to relieve their symptoms. The article was in relation to the homeless community.
curation 5y ago
I collect opinions about what 'minds were ruined by psychedelics' - how do you define that?
mkeespiet 5y ago
I have heard this too, but mostly because there where looking for something that is not there. Example: if finding your true yourself is like peeling of an onion, the can peel a lot, but at some point, the reach the core where there is nothing to peel anymore. I have never reach this state and it is not at all my goal. I think it has something to do with ego. Doing psychedelics makes ego less important. But if you do it too much, you lose your ego too. Living without ego is not possible in my opinion..
xkcd-sucks 5y ago
I know a bunch of people who went totally nuts with the aid of drugs; but I know even more people that never touched any drugs who went off the deep end with the aid of media, romantic relationships, religion, politics, etc.

I know a lot of people whose minds were ruined by psychedelics. It’s something you will see when you spend time in those communities. It doesn’t happen to everyone, but it’s common.

simonswords82 5y ago

I get it - a drug is a drug - and like all drugs I am not saying that psychedelics are a cure all for all people. What I am saying is that it is depressing that we are only just seeing reports from formal sources that psychedelics could be useful for some people.

encryptluks2 5y ago
I mean we could just discuss the issue of freedom and making it illegal for people to grow and consume a mushroom and stop making it about just drugs. Marijuana is the same way. If it isn't for someone then they shouldn't do it and we should make as much information available about something available and provide safe environments, but making it illegal especially when plenty of people have experienced positive effects sometimes profound religious experiences it is just another mechanism of control and taking away freedom and natural rights.
- ganzuul 5y ago
  Freedom is indeed one narrative. What is being (re-)constructed here is a narrative about plant medicine. The concepts used in each narrative are very different, so if we discussing both at the same time may confound each other.
  - encryptluks2 5y ago
    True, but the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as stated in the United States Declaration of Independence has it covered pretty well. Growing your own mushrooms or marijuana does not restrict on other individual rights if they do so willingly, and therefore getting caught up in treating it like a drug that needs to be studied more before they consider making it more accessible seems a bit absurd IMO. They're not being made in labs and grow naturally in many parts of the US.
giantg2 5y ago
I'm pretty sure there were formal studies decades ago showing potential use and positive outcomes (I think Stamets books from the 90s reference some formal studies, but i could be wrong). But like a lot of medical research, it never progressed to a market state. I think that's especially true in this case due to the legal classification around it.
- mellavora 5y ago
  I hear that LSD made the cover of Time magazine 5 times as a wonder drug, curing depression etc. That was pre-1970.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    Yeah, they were able to bring LSD into therapeutic use before it was essentially outlawed. I believe there was one dominant practice in California that became well known as specialists and there were articles written about them and the celebrities that were treated there.

hervature 5y ago

This is why research is needed. My gut feeling is that the root cause is overdosing. Just search "How often can I do shrooms" on Quora and you get the gamut from "1 or 2 times per year", to "microdosing everyday, macrodose every weekend, and hero dose every month".

high_priest 5y ago
This is why, even though I stand firm behind the fact, that psychedelic experiences changed my life, I stay sceptic about changing body/brain chemistry over longer periods of time. I used to macrodose and get immensely creative over a week or so. With a happy outlook on nature and all things uncontrollable around me. But then the high died some day. Lethargy came back. Lack of actual structure and the 'happy go lucky' attitude derailed whatever tied my past with plans for the future. Microdosing seemed to help from time to time, but mostly I just get distracted with random consumption instead of planned, structured and thought through creation.

junon 5y ago

Why is this being downvoted? Studies are great, but let's not act like drugs are suddenly safe to use in all cases. I'm sure the studies didn't conclude that. Be pro-shrooms but don't act like they're safe in every case. Education is required before partaking in anything, let alone shrooms.

nabla9 5y ago
The subject has been studied. There is no good evidence supporting that. Cause and effect is not easy to separate and anecdotal evidence is just anecdotal. People who are not well are known to 'self medicate'. For example: Increase of alcohol use among people with preexisting problems is well documented. Link between tobacco use and schizophrenia is also well documented. See: "Smoking and schizophrenia" https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19794359/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19794359/ "It has been suggested that smoking may be an attempt by schizophrenic patients to alleviate cognitive deficits and to reduce extrapyramidal side-effects induced by antipsychotic medication." Psychedelics are not the type of drug people keep using if it harms them. If they don't work for you, you really don't want to do them again. (ps. I would not recommend _regular_ drug use of any kind)
standardUser 5y ago
Can we point to any data showing that mushrooms or acid (for example) are more dangerous than, say, a coronavirus vaccine or driving a car? Because generally speaking, unless something is concretely documented as dangerous we don't just assume it is dangerous "because". Especially when that "because" is because of a well-documented, decades-long propaganda campaign by the federal government.
- junon 5y ago
  You haven't had any negative experiences with drugs, have you?
  - standardUser 5y ago
    I have had plenty of negative experiences with the many, many drugs I have done. But the most danger I have ever been in due to drugs has been being the passenger of a drunk driver. That's maybe the only real physical danger I have encountered. I have a hard time even imaging how mushrooms would lead to physical danger. Did you have a point to make?

pwr33 5y ago

Which psychedelics? I've pushed the limits with many tryptamines (at least 300-400 discrete experiences) and 15 years later my cognitive abilities are measurably excellent.

acchow 5y ago

In what way were their minds ruined?

spoiler 5y ago
Not OP, but there can be a few things they're alluring to. Some disassociatives are often put into the "psychedelic," and they can cause addiction. Ketamine begin an example. People begin chasing the previous high, which often means higher doses and more money. Some more ignorant people put MDMA (and family) of drugs into this category as well. These drugs are highly neurotoxic, and require a lot of "prep" to take to reduce their neurotoxicity (it's arguable to what degree this prep helps). Moreover frequent user of this can in some people (ie people succeptible to depression) cause a long-term disbalance in their serotonin system (some people take weeks to recover from even one usage). People who have some mental "precondition" (eg such as psychosis, etc) can have some extremely severe response and permanent "side effects" (for a lackeof better expressions) from psychedelics, and never recover. An extremely small percentage of people have what's called Hallucinogen persisting perception disorder (HPPD). Some people find it fun, some don't mind it, while some can't function because of it. Quality of substance you acquire can also vary. On the black market things are often mislabelled or cut with other substances that are easier/cheaper to produce. One notable examples is NBOMe being sold as LSD. NBOMe is more dangerous for a few reasons that I won't be getting into in this post. Always test your stuff with test kits, or if you're not comfortable with that, sense a small bit of your batch to a testing lab (there's a few anonymous/free ones in Europe). Lastly, there's always ignorance or risk of being too "casual" about taking psychedelic due to familiarity with them. This leads to accidental drug combinations (eg some antidepressants + some psychedelics) don't combined well. Aimee just diminished the other, but people reported more severe symptoms. People also combine things recreationally without researching things properly, which can be a bad combo. Speaking of antidepressants and psychedelics: a notable thing to mention is that Lithium salts and LSD have been reported to lead to terors, seizures, and maybe even death (as reported on erowid). I'm not trying to discourage or encourage people from psychedelics. In my personal experience, they can be wonderful and provide healing experiences. However, we need to always be careful when using them, because they have such a profound effect on our minds, and we still understand so little about the mind itself. With that in mind (no pun intended), treat them with respect they deserve!

johnisgood 5y ago

Most likely because they have done normal or high doses too frequently.

astura 5y ago
Definitely not the case for the people I know. One trip caused permanent psychosis in one case.
- johnisgood 5y ago
  Perhaps they were susceptible to it, then. Permanent psychosis though? Is that really a thing?
  - heavyset_go 5y ago
    Yes, it is. Psychotic disorders aren't pretty and they're often permanent. They can go into remission, though.
- vmception 5y ago
  who what why when where how ever notice how all these stories lack that? all? look, don’t respond to why that might be, but lets just all push for the study and a legal framework that allows for said studies to exist
  - giantg2 5y ago
    Here's a summary with links to studies. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substance-induced_psychosis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substance-induced_psychosis
    - vmception 5y ago
      > F16.5 hallucinogens (LSD and others)[citation needed] no studies found.

dave_sullivan 5y ago

How many is a lot? I've been around a lot of people that do psychedelics, and have done them myself quite a bit. No issues to report. It is a crime that they've been locked away for so long due to Nixon and scare mongers. So many people in jail because of it. Legalize it already, sheesh.

singingfish 5y ago

You'd want to be clear on how much of that was caused by the setting in which they took psychedelics before making a pronouncement.

disgruntledphd2 5y ago
Setting is definitely important, as is choice. One of the big problems with illegal psychedelics is that people aren't sure what they are getting. For instance, DOB and MDMA both come in pill form, but have wildly different effects. Some of the worst outcomes I've seen have come when one drug is believed to be another, and this is something that decriminalisation would definitely help with. That being said, psychedelics have traditionally been combined with ritual, and the lack of said rituals can be a big impediment to useful results.
- vmception 5y ago
  > decriminalisation no only recreational legalization would do that
  - tremon 5y ago
    Here in NL, large festivals have drug testing booths, where the visitors can have their drugs tested so they know what they'll be ingesting. That's possible because of decriminalisation and destigmatization. Legalization would allow the government to create a testing infrastructure so drugs can be tested/validated before they're sold, that's arguably better. But it's definitely possible to create a safer drug environment with decriminalisation only.
    - vmception 5y ago
      Drug testing is possible here in the US with overt criminalization. Decriminalization is just marginally safer. Testing is a huge waste of resources unless its a stopgap towards recreational legalization with a reliable supply chain.

pbadenski 5y ago

This type of empty fear mongering comment is unhelpful at best. It's a McDonalds of a comment. What's a lot of people? Why are psychedelics so special compared to anything else (sugar, Facebook, gambling). "It doesn't happen to everyone, but it's common" - what does this even mean? "Common" based on what criterion? How should our behaviour as a society change based on your comment?

PedroBatista 5y ago
I don’t know if they are “special” compared to those, but you seem to imply they are the same. You seem so laser focused on the promising side of things that you completely “forget” each substance is different and it’s use has serious consequences if abused, if not then do heroine.
- pbadenski 5y ago
  Oh I definitely don't think it's the same. I would argue the items I have listed above are significantly more damaging to society than mushrooms. On the subject of heroin, what about more dangerous psychoactive substance - ethanol? See https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11660210 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11660210 and https://www.ias.org.uk/uploads/pdf/News%20stories/dnutt-lancet-011110.pdf https://www.ias.org.uk/uploads/pdf/News%20stories/dnutt-lanc...
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jokoon 5y ago
Are you comparing psychedelics to sugar and social media? Unless psilocybin is thoroughly tested and validated as a treatment that is as safe as SSRI, I don't think it's really worthwhile to jump into the psilocybin train.
- singingfish 5y ago
  SSRI's can be not terribly safe as well. In some people their use leads to extremely unsafe impulsive behaviour and which itself can lead to suicide.

Covzire 5y ago

Care to give a few anecdotes?

Gatsky 5y ago

At least some of this could be the tendency of people with pre-existing mental illness to self-medicate. High smoking rates amongst people with schizophrenia is an example. Smoking seems to ameliorate some psychotic symptoms.

amanaplanacanal 5y ago
I’ve also read that many alcoholics are using alcohol to relieve their symptoms. The article was in relation to the homeless community.

curation 5y ago

I collect opinions about what 'minds were ruined by psychedelics' - how do you define that?

mkeespiet 5y ago

I have heard this too, but mostly because there where looking for something that is not there. Example: if finding your true yourself is like peeling of an onion, the can peel a lot, but at some point, the reach the core where there is nothing to peel anymore. I have never reach this state and it is not at all my goal. I think it has something to do with ego. Doing psychedelics makes ego less important. But if you do it too much, you lose your ego too. Living without ego is not possible in my opinion..

xkcd-sucks 5y ago

I know a bunch of people who went totally nuts with the aid of drugs; but I know even more people that never touched any drugs who went off the deep end with the aid of media, romantic relationships, religion, politics, etc.