4 ms·

Turkish police get their own attack helicopters

39 points by samizdis 6y ago

superkuh 6y ago
Nice. Now they won't have to improvise when dropping bombs on protester's houses like the Pennsylvania State Police had to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_MOVE_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_MOVE_bombing
- isomorph 6y ago
  Wow, thanks for raising awareness about that. I see from the linked Wikipedia article that they finally issued an apology in November 2020.
  - the_only_law 6y ago
    I may be wrong, but I believe there were some FBI files declassified about the event +/- a few years
- meepmorp 6y ago
  The bombing bothers me less than the ensuing fire that burned down two whole blocks of houses.
- gist 6y ago
  That was actually (and it says in the wikipedia) the Philly Police Department. Unrelated: Years after that event I met the news photographer who had strapped his camera to a microwave truck's telescoping antenna to get a shot in the air.
major505 6y ago
Mental note: if I every go to Turkey, never go beyond the speed limit.
chii 6y ago
When the police look like military, the people will look like the enemy.
- Guest42 6y ago
  Is it scope creep or a change in problem domain?
- that_guy_iain 6y ago
  These will be used along side the military in counter terrorism. I too was wondering why the police would need them but it seems they're making terrorism a police issue.
samizdis 6y ago
Decent Wikipedia article about the militarisation of police, covering Brazil, Canada, Colombia, France, Germany, Indonesia, Mexico, the UK and the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militarization_of_police https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militarization_of_police
iamacyborg 6y ago
Someone call John Holt.
space_rock 6y ago
Shooting someone protesting for democracy with a rifle is too much work
Diggsey 6y ago
The rabbit never escapes...
kstenerud 6y ago
This is not for regular policing; the Turkish police also have a branch dedicated to fighting the PKK insurgency, and that's where such military equipment is used. It's a bit weird that it's not the military itself doing this kind of fighting, but I expect that since it's at least partially within national borders, some crossover is inevitable.
markvdb 6y ago
> “Our helicopters will be assigned as a mobile fleet in the provinces of the region, primarily in Diyarbakır, Van, Şırnak, and Hakkari,” Police Chief Mehmet Aktaş explained. All these provinces are in the southeast of the country, where Turkish security forces operations targeting Kurdish militants are most intense. Alternatively, the Turkish government could start allowing all of its citizens to grow, or even supporting them in their growth. Even if they speak Kurdish, are lesbian, or -god forbid- non-religious.
- whatever1 6y ago
  It's easy to allow ethnic minorities to grow and let them mind their own business until the moment they decide that they are different enough to secede. Countries, historically, don't like that.
  - gumby 6y ago
    Or they could change how the country thinks of itself. Secession is not the only possibility and there are many examples of both.
- mxmilkiib 6y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_Administration_of_North_and_East_Syria https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_Administration_of... https://youtu.be/ovfw6BJ3OLM https://youtu.be/ovfw6BJ3OLM
gumby 6y ago
Are Turkish police (somewhat or totally) integrated into the military hierarchy? The US seems to have lost its way in this regard, doing so in a half-hearted manner. When indeed it should be the opposite : civilian policing is a community function while military action is if anything a specifically “anti-community” function. The US military actually understand this distinction; since WWII they trained and operated their military police forces differently from standard combat forces. While the civil authorities have since the 70s at least been going the other way.
imtringued 6y ago
People are scared of police forces with drone swarms that murder everyone... Nobody ever thinks about why this doesn't happen and nobody ever thinks about why when it does happen, the police doesn't necessarily use their pet technology and just uses decades old tech instead. Installing face tracking into security cameras + attack helicopter is more effective than a mythical drone swarm. Of course the drone swarm fear only exists because it isn't real yet. It will disappear as soon as drone swarms become real because then everyone will realize that the police aren't out there to shoot you up, unless they do and then they will just use regular pistols or helicopters.
yigitcakar 6y ago
After 2016 Turkish coup d'état attempt, Erdogan government doesn't trust military air-force. After the attempt, a large part of the airforce has been dismantled, and retired airforce pilots asked to return. A lot of them didn't because private companies provide a better life. So there are trust issues and also a shortage of pilots on the military side. The article mentions that they are going to use the helicopters on the eastern side of the Turkey where Kurdish terrorist forces are active. Since the Kurdish attacks began, the military use in Turkish soil has garnered arguments. That's why police is also really active in the fight against terrorism. Moreover, lately the political climate in Turkey has turned against the Kurdish political movement and every time this happens, the Kurdish terrorist arm gets active. I believe this is part of the preparations against possible terrorist activity. I believe there will be an insurgence of terrorist activity because every time the country is in chaos, Erdogan's grip of power strengthens and Erdogan needs to reinforce his rule. In the last local elections ruling AKP party lost the municipalities of the big cities, and especially losing Istanbul Metropolitan Municipality hit AKP really hard. Erdogan was the mayor of the city before founding AKP, and has been using the city to fund some of AKP's operations. The polls show that the mayor of Istanbul Ekrem Imamoglu, and the mayor of Ankara Mansur Yavas, both from the opposing party CHP, are seen as direct competition to Erdogan and in most of the polls both exceed Erdogan. In Turkey, they say, whomever gets Istanbul gets the country, and Imamoglu has been a great leader for the city. Also, Erdogan has to have an early election to be able to be a candidate, or change the constitution before the elections. He doesn't have a candidate that can replace him in the party, and under current conditions — a disastrous pandemic, crumbling economy, skyrocketing unemployment — he couldn't win an early election. Therefore, I expect Erdogan to strangle the politic arm of the Kurdish movement and make the military arm react with bombings and terrorist activity in the near future. It is Erdogan's hope to be on top of it, and win another election as the savior of Turkey.

39 points by samizdis 6y ago

Nice. Now they won't have to improvise when dropping bombs on protester's houses like the Pennsylvania State Police had to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_MOVE_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_MOVE_bombing

isomorph 6y ago
Wow, thanks for raising awareness about that. I see from the linked Wikipedia article that they finally issued an apology in November 2020.
- the_only_law 6y ago
  I may be wrong, but I believe there were some FBI files declassified about the event +/- a few years
meepmorp 6y ago
The bombing bothers me less than the ensuing fire that burned down two whole blocks of houses.
gist 6y ago
That was actually (and it says in the wikipedia) the Philly Police Department. Unrelated: Years after that event I met the news photographer who had strapped his camera to a microwave truck's telescoping antenna to get a shot in the air.

major505 6y ago

Mental note: if I every go to Turkey, never go beyond the speed limit.

chii 6y ago

When the police look like military, the people will look like the enemy.

Guest42 6y ago
Is it scope creep or a change in problem domain?
that_guy_iain 6y ago
These will be used along side the military in counter terrorism. I too was wondering why the police would need them but it seems they're making terrorism a police issue.

samizdis 6y ago

Decent Wikipedia article about the militarisation of police, covering Brazil, Canada, Colombia, France, Germany, Indonesia, Mexico, the UK and the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militarization_of_police https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militarization_of_police

iamacyborg 6y ago

Someone call John Holt.

space_rock 6y ago

Shooting someone protesting for democracy with a rifle is too much work

Diggsey 6y ago

The rabbit never escapes...

kstenerud 6y ago

This is not for regular policing; the Turkish police also have a branch dedicated to fighting the PKK insurgency, and that's where such military equipment is used. It's a bit weird that it's not the military itself doing this kind of fighting, but I expect that since it's at least partially within national borders, some crossover is inevitable.

markvdb 6y ago

> “Our helicopters will be assigned as a mobile fleet in the provinces of the region, primarily in Diyarbakır, Van, Şırnak, and Hakkari,” Police Chief Mehmet Aktaş explained. All these provinces are in the southeast of the country, where Turkish security forces operations targeting Kurdish militants are most intense. Alternatively, the Turkish government could start allowing all of its citizens to grow, or even supporting them in their growth. Even if they speak Kurdish, are lesbian, or -god forbid- non-religious.

whatever1 6y ago
It's easy to allow ethnic minorities to grow and let them mind their own business until the moment they decide that they are different enough to secede. Countries, historically, don't like that.
- gumby 6y ago
  Or they could change how the country thinks of itself. Secession is not the only possibility and there are many examples of both.
mxmilkiib 6y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_Administration_of_North_and_East_Syria https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_Administration_of... https://youtu.be/ovfw6BJ3OLM https://youtu.be/ovfw6BJ3OLM

gumby 6y ago

Are Turkish police (somewhat or totally) integrated into the military hierarchy? The US seems to have lost its way in this regard, doing so in a half-hearted manner. When indeed it should be the opposite : civilian policing is a community function while military action is if anything a specifically “anti-community” function. The US military actually understand this distinction; since WWII they trained and operated their military police forces differently from standard combat forces. While the civil authorities have since the 70s at least been going the other way.

imtringued 6y ago

People are scared of police forces with drone swarms that murder everyone... Nobody ever thinks about why this doesn't happen and nobody ever thinks about why when it does happen, the police doesn't necessarily use their pet technology and just uses decades old tech instead. Installing face tracking into security cameras + attack helicopter is more effective than a mythical drone swarm. Of course the drone swarm fear only exists because it isn't real yet. It will disappear as soon as drone swarms become real because then everyone will realize that the police aren't out there to shoot you up, unless they do and then they will just use regular pistols or helicopters.

yigitcakar 6y ago

After 2016 Turkish coup d'état attempt, Erdogan government doesn't trust military air-force. After the attempt, a large part of the airforce has been dismantled, and retired airforce pilots asked to return. A lot of them didn't because private companies provide a better life. So there are trust issues and also a shortage of pilots on the military side. The article mentions that they are going to use the helicopters on the eastern side of the Turkey where Kurdish terrorist forces are active. Since the Kurdish attacks began, the military use in Turkish soil has garnered arguments. That's why police is also really active in the fight against terrorism. Moreover, lately the political climate in Turkey has turned against the Kurdish political movement and every time this happens, the Kurdish terrorist arm gets active. I believe this is part of the preparations against possible terrorist activity. I believe there will be an insurgence of terrorist activity because every time the country is in chaos, Erdogan's grip of power strengthens and Erdogan needs to reinforce his rule. In the last local elections ruling AKP party lost the municipalities of the big cities, and especially losing Istanbul Metropolitan Municipality hit AKP really hard. Erdogan was the mayor of the city before founding AKP, and has been using the city to fund some of AKP's operations. The polls show that the mayor of Istanbul Ekrem Imamoglu, and the mayor of Ankara Mansur Yavas, both from the opposing party CHP, are seen as direct competition to Erdogan and in most of the polls both exceed Erdogan. In Turkey, they say, whomever gets Istanbul gets the country, and Imamoglu has been a great leader for the city. Also, Erdogan has to have an early election to be able to be a candidate, or change the constitution before the elections. He doesn't have a candidate that can replace him in the party, and under current conditions — a disastrous pandemic, crumbling economy, skyrocketing unemployment — he couldn't win an early election. Therefore, I expect Erdogan to strangle the politic arm of the Kurdish movement and make the military arm react with bombings and terrorist activity in the near future. It is Erdogan's hope to be on top of it, and win another election as the savior of Turkey.