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But somehow the rich world refused the Russian vaccine for months... what is this preference for US for-profit pharma companies even at the expense of their own

by EGreg 6y ago

But somehow the rich world refused the Russian vaccine for months... what is this preference for US for-profit pharma companies even at the expense of their own population? The Russian vaccine is already shown to be more effective. Honestly, political sanctions are one thing, but refusing help for political reasons? https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/04/03/europe/europe-russia-vaccines-analysis-intl-cmd/index.html https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/04/03/europe/europe-russia-vacc...

hef19898 6y ago
Sputnik V has no approval, emergency or otherwise, in the EU or the US. They never submitted any trial data to get an EU approval.
- EGreg 6y ago
  Sure, and the Israeli vaccine has no approval, emergency or otherwise, in the Palestinian territories. They received only 10,000 doses so far, from Russian vaccine. Same story... enough people in the leadership will gum up the works for purely political reasons, cutting nose to spite face. It’s basically the opposite of “operation warp speed”: https://www.bbc.com/news/55800921 https://www.bbc.com/news/55800921 Can you tell me the difference between these two situations? Leadership lets their own regular citizenry die for political reasons. USSR refused food aid from western Europe during Holodomor. Venezuela refused food aid recently also. You can describe it all as “has no approval”. WHY does it have no approval — that’s the question.
  - mancerayder 6y ago
    I'm perplexing to me, as well. Europeans didn't approve the vaccine but they also have strict lockdowns. Do politicians actively WANT lockdowns? Is that what people want? Aren't people desperate to be free again? They took forever to approve the U.S. vaccines, they also refused to negotiate beforehand, and were sticklers on cost. Now the U.S., Israel and the UK have run laps around the EU in preparedness. When I was growing up we Europeans saw movies about the USSR, we heard news stories about Soviet citizens needing approvals to travel in their own countries, we saw checkpoints and checking of ID, and we patted ourselves on the back because we're Free. So - what happened?
    - orwin 6y ago
      It is because they did not submit approval request. The EU is really bureaucratic, more than any governing body, it is a huge flaw, but in reality it make it easy to dismiss claim that a decision is political. If it not a decision made by the council, it is not political.
    - akmarinov 6y ago
      The biggest issue was that the EU exported about half of the vaccines manufactured in the EU. Had it done as the UK and the US and hoarded them for themselves, banning vaccine exports - the EU would’ve been way better off.
  - BurningFrog 6y ago
    > Sure, and the Israeli vaccine has no approval There is no Israeli vaccine. Israel mainly uses imported Pfizer vaccine.
- riku_iki 6y ago
  Sputnik also has production issues, Russia has only 4M of fully vaccinated population as of today, how they can help other countries?
SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
Many countries in the EU were under unwilling Russian dominion just a few decades ago. I don't think it's reasonable to blame them for mistrusting Moscow's motives. (And there's a lot of clear mischief that could happen; if the EU ends up in a situation where losing Sputnik V imports would set vaccinations back by months, and then Russia annexes Donbass, what are they going to do?)
- EGreg 6y ago
  The leaders mistrusting Russia’s motives has to be balanced against the death toll of their citizens. Refusing emergency aid and help because of some postulated alleged unspecified “motives” and not even willing to debate with others what those motives could be — is highly irresponsible. You have to put aside political chauvinism when it comes to aid. It’s like when Palestinians refuse Israeli vaccine or when USSR refused European food aid during Holodomor, or when Venezuela did similar recently. What about all the regular people who need emergency aid now, why are some people in the “leadership” able to deny them even access to it, for political reasons — while their own families secretly get all the best resources first? They don’t worry for their own families, so the plebes can just wait while the situation is resolved eh...
  - tonfa 6y ago
    There wasn't really an aid anyway. The sputnik vaccine doesn't have somehow more factories to produce it than others. It's not like the choice was between vaccinating with X or waiting, availability is similar (or worse).
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    Are there many European citizens who want Russia's vaccine, though? I agree that it's bad if there are, but it's my impression that most people in most countries would rather wait.
tonfa 6y ago
Does the sputnik vaccine actually has a high production? Trying to find number, but seems like so far there's been 30M doses produced. I think a few european countries are planning to manufacture it for Russia. In any case doesn't really help, it's not like it's more easily available (and I guess costs are similar to AZ or J&J vaccines)

by EGreg 6y ago

hef19898 6y ago

Sputnik V has no approval, emergency or otherwise, in the EU or the US. They never submitted any trial data to get an EU approval.

EGreg 6y ago
Sure, and the Israeli vaccine has no approval, emergency or otherwise, in the Palestinian territories. They received only 10,000 doses so far, from Russian vaccine. Same story... enough people in the leadership will gum up the works for purely political reasons, cutting nose to spite face. It’s basically the opposite of “operation warp speed”: https://www.bbc.com/news/55800921 https://www.bbc.com/news/55800921 Can you tell me the difference between these two situations? Leadership lets their own regular citizenry die for political reasons. USSR refused food aid from western Europe during Holodomor. Venezuela refused food aid recently also. You can describe it all as “has no approval”. WHY does it have no approval — that’s the question.
- mancerayder 6y ago
  I'm perplexing to me, as well. Europeans didn't approve the vaccine but they also have strict lockdowns. Do politicians actively WANT lockdowns? Is that what people want? Aren't people desperate to be free again? They took forever to approve the U.S. vaccines, they also refused to negotiate beforehand, and were sticklers on cost. Now the U.S., Israel and the UK have run laps around the EU in preparedness. When I was growing up we Europeans saw movies about the USSR, we heard news stories about Soviet citizens needing approvals to travel in their own countries, we saw checkpoints and checking of ID, and we patted ourselves on the back because we're Free. So - what happened?
  - orwin 6y ago
    It is because they did not submit approval request. The EU is really bureaucratic, more than any governing body, it is a huge flaw, but in reality it make it easy to dismiss claim that a decision is political. If it not a decision made by the council, it is not political.
  - akmarinov 6y ago
    The biggest issue was that the EU exported about half of the vaccines manufactured in the EU. Had it done as the UK and the US and hoarded them for themselves, banning vaccine exports - the EU would’ve been way better off.
- BurningFrog 6y ago
  > Sure, and the Israeli vaccine has no approval There is no Israeli vaccine. Israel mainly uses imported Pfizer vaccine.
riku_iki 6y ago
Sputnik also has production issues, Russia has only 4M of fully vaccinated population as of today, how they can help other countries?

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

Many countries in the EU were under unwilling Russian dominion just a few decades ago. I don't think it's reasonable to blame them for mistrusting Moscow's motives. (And there's a lot of clear mischief that could happen; if the EU ends up in a situation where losing Sputnik V imports would set vaccinations back by months, and then Russia annexes Donbass, what are they going to do?)

EGreg 6y ago
The leaders mistrusting Russia’s motives has to be balanced against the death toll of their citizens. Refusing emergency aid and help because of some postulated alleged unspecified “motives” and not even willing to debate with others what those motives could be — is highly irresponsible. You have to put aside political chauvinism when it comes to aid. It’s like when Palestinians refuse Israeli vaccine or when USSR refused European food aid during Holodomor, or when Venezuela did similar recently. What about all the regular people who need emergency aid now, why are some people in the “leadership” able to deny them even access to it, for political reasons — while their own families secretly get all the best resources first? They don’t worry for their own families, so the plebes can just wait while the situation is resolved eh...
- tonfa 6y ago
  There wasn't really an aid anyway. The sputnik vaccine doesn't have somehow more factories to produce it than others. It's not like the choice was between vaccinating with X or waiting, availability is similar (or worse).
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  Are there many European citizens who want Russia's vaccine, though? I agree that it's bad if there are, but it's my impression that most people in most countries would rather wait.

tonfa 6y ago

Does the sputnik vaccine actually has a high production? Trying to find number, but seems like so far there's been 30M doses produced. I think a few european countries are planning to manufacture it for Russia. In any case doesn't really help, it's not like it's more easily available (and I guess costs are similar to AZ or J&J vaccines)