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> It isn't over until it's over. However, COVID and the response governments around the world made it's clear they are NOT treating climate like an emergency.

> It isn't over until it's over. However, COVID and the response governments around the world made it's clear they are NOT treating climate like an emergency. How does the COVID response have anything to do with the climate response? The governments of the world have all responded differently -- some quite stringently -- and the speed with which we produced an mRNA vaccine (itself a technological marvel) is truly nuts. >The issue with climate are feedback loops which cause non-linear responses. These are dangerous because they have a tendency to sneak up on you. We are being way too conservative in our climate response and the uncertainty around the future should not make us feel better. It is true that feedback loops are dangerous, but what do you mean by "sneaking up" on us? There's always uncertainty in modeling and projections of any kind, but the most agreed-upon climate models and projected scenarios include feedback loops. > I believe Michael Mann is wrong that scary headlines prevent action. Look at Greta and the youth climate movement and XR. It exploded BECAUSE of the dread and anxiety. Yes, it's true people on the sidelines might get scared away, but you only need a small group of REALLY committed actors to make real change. Those on the sidelines will come along after the fact. Well, maybe. Everyone is different, so perhaps some people will be spurned to act by these sorts of headlines. A majority of people in the US agree that climate change is a problem that needs to be addressed, so hopefully we will see more and more political pressure in the future.

matthewdgreen 6y ago
>How does the COVID response have anything to do with the climate response? I can't speak for the parent poster, but the US COVID response made me pretty pessimistic about our country's ability to deal with complicated near-future threats that (a) are not immediately tangible, (b) require even modest personal sacrifices (see e.g., wearing masks.) Back in the earlier phases of the pandemic it was a near-term threat with an unknown IFR and a pretty high immediate body count, not some future concern where the worst effects are decades away. I guess the good news here is that some countries were much more successful in organizing a coordinated COVID response. Unfortunately, slowing down climate change is a global effort: you can't just seal your borders to prevent it. TL;DR as a practice run for how we'll deal with the much bigger climate crisis, our global grade in this one was barely passing. Thank god we had a quick technical fix in the form of vaccination.
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  Likewise. I was already somewhat pessimistic, but was hopeful that there might be a cultural shift with the younger generations. Covid made me much more pessimistic about the younger generation's willingness to sacrifice for greater good (IMO, the older generations are a lost cause).
InitialLastName 6y ago
> How does the COVID response have anything to do with the climate response? The governments of the world have all responded differently -- some quite stringently -- and the speed with which we produced an mRNA vaccine (itself a technological marvel) is truly nuts. I read the point as that now we've seen what governments around the world are willing to do when they perceive a real emergency: Shut down entire industries, print money to subsidize everybody, and enforce exceptions for rent/debt payments for people affected. There has as yet been no willingness to take anything of the sort in response to climate change.
- unix_fan 6y ago
  That mostly applies to the developed world. Countries like mine won’t be able to afford the necessary changes, and we’re set to keep growing.
  - salmonfamine 6y ago
    Where are you from, if you don’t mind me asking?
  - imtringued 6y ago
    How does your country intend to "keep growing". Will it do the export strategy that China and pretty much every other Asian country followed (Korea, Japan)? If yes, then it will be done by pegging the currency to the dollar with the end result of accumulating a reserve of US treasury bonds. The additional bonds that your country is purchasing will allow the US government to do more green investments, maybe even abroad, maybe even in your country. If these investments end up increasing the trade deficit even further then the green investment cycle starts again.
Ma8ee 6y ago
The COVID response showed that governments (not all) can take drastic action when needed, both to limit the spread of the decease as well as to protect the economy. If they treated the climate emergency as the crisis it is, they would have acted as forcibly, or even stronger, to reduce green house gas emissions. They are not even close. There are no technical or economical hurdles that stops us from strongly mitigate the climate change. It is pure politics. And it make me so angry.
- f6v 6y ago
  > If they treated the climate emergency as the crisis it is They treat it as politicians that need to get re-elected, since that's linked to direct and indirect financial rewards. However, climate is something which is going to dramatically change in 50-100 years. The sea levels might not rise by 1 meter in the next 10-20 years. That means climate change isn't this government's problem. So no, there isn't a government on this planet that is going to treat climate change as an emergency.
  - Ma8ee 6y ago
    It’s just enough that enough of their constituents do for them to start caring. A lot of young people and people with kids already care a lot. If people can worry about the deficit 10 or 15 years down the line people can worry about climate change.
    - whimsicalism 6y ago
      > A lot of young people and people with kids already care a lot. A lot of young people say they want to combat climate change and want politicians to do so. But I've also seen the studies when those same people are asked about willingness to pay/sacrifice to accomplish that goal. They are... not good. We will see if the next generation supports a carbon tax if it means higher prices for consumer goods and the benefits disproportionately accrue to people 2 generations down the line.
      - Ma8ee 6y ago

matthewdgreen 6y ago

>How does the COVID response have anything to do with the climate response? I can't speak for the parent poster, but the US COVID response made me pretty pessimistic about our country's ability to deal with complicated near-future threats that (a) are not immediately tangible, (b) require even modest personal sacrifices (see e.g., wearing masks.) Back in the earlier phases of the pandemic it was a near-term threat with an unknown IFR and a pretty high immediate body count, not some future concern where the worst effects are decades away. I guess the good news here is that some countries were much more successful in organizing a coordinated COVID response. Unfortunately, slowing down climate change is a global effort: you can't just seal your borders to prevent it. TL;DR as a practice run for how we'll deal with the much bigger climate crisis, our global grade in this one was barely passing. Thank god we had a quick technical fix in the form of vaccination.

whimsicalism 6y ago
Likewise. I was already somewhat pessimistic, but was hopeful that there might be a cultural shift with the younger generations. Covid made me much more pessimistic about the younger generation's willingness to sacrifice for greater good (IMO, the older generations are a lost cause).

InitialLastName 6y ago

> How does the COVID response have anything to do with the climate response? The governments of the world have all responded differently -- some quite stringently -- and the speed with which we produced an mRNA vaccine (itself a technological marvel) is truly nuts. I read the point as that now we've seen what governments around the world are willing to do when they perceive a real emergency: Shut down entire industries, print money to subsidize everybody, and enforce exceptions for rent/debt payments for people affected. There has as yet been no willingness to take anything of the sort in response to climate change.

unix_fan 6y ago
That mostly applies to the developed world. Countries like mine won’t be able to afford the necessary changes, and we’re set to keep growing.
- salmonfamine 6y ago
  Where are you from, if you don’t mind me asking?
- imtringued 6y ago
  How does your country intend to "keep growing". Will it do the export strategy that China and pretty much every other Asian country followed (Korea, Japan)? If yes, then it will be done by pegging the currency to the dollar with the end result of accumulating a reserve of US treasury bonds. The additional bonds that your country is purchasing will allow the US government to do more green investments, maybe even abroad, maybe even in your country. If these investments end up increasing the trade deficit even further then the green investment cycle starts again.

Ma8ee 6y ago

The COVID response showed that governments (not all) can take drastic action when needed, both to limit the spread of the decease as well as to protect the economy. If they treated the climate emergency as the crisis it is, they would have acted as forcibly, or even stronger, to reduce green house gas emissions. They are not even close. There are no technical or economical hurdles that stops us from strongly mitigate the climate change. It is pure politics. And it make me so angry.

f6v 6y ago
> If they treated the climate emergency as the crisis it is They treat it as politicians that need to get re-elected, since that's linked to direct and indirect financial rewards. However, climate is something which is going to dramatically change in 50-100 years. The sea levels might not rise by 1 meter in the next 10-20 years. That means climate change isn't this government's problem. So no, there isn't a government on this planet that is going to treat climate change as an emergency.
- Ma8ee 6y ago
  It’s just enough that enough of their constituents do for them to start caring. A lot of young people and people with kids already care a lot. If people can worry about the deficit 10 or 15 years down the line people can worry about climate change.
  - whimsicalism 6y ago
    > A lot of young people and people with kids already care a lot. A lot of young people say they want to combat climate change and want politicians to do so. But I've also seen the studies when those same people are asked about willingness to pay/sacrifice to accomplish that goal. They are... not good. We will see if the next generation supports a carbon tax if it means higher prices for consumer goods and the benefits disproportionately accrue to people 2 generations down the line.
    - Ma8ee 6y ago